So WHY did God create Man and the Universe?

Again, why would I care about or acknowledge an Islamic perspective.?

Oh, I know, if I don't bow to Islam I will be ignorantly , moronically, and childishly insulted ....




And nothing is more moronic than believing in something that doesn't exist.

 

You were the one who asked, kid.

According to the bitter atheist who spends a lot of his time debating something that doesn't exist.

 

How about the notion of reaching an understanding of that group of people, their way of life, their culture?

 

I have...and have every right to not like it.

 

No doubt that you have that right to not like it and you also have the right to express that dislike. So, it boils down once again to OPINION.

 

Brilliant deduction !!! People post here with OPINIONS!!!! WOW!

 

And opinions are a dime a dozen and opinions don't show PROOF of anything other than the persons right to run his/her mouth in whatever fashion they desire within the parameters of the Rules of this forum.

 

I have never seen a post of yours that proved anything.

 

Wow! Astounding observation on your part. Amazingly, I can say the same thing about your postings.

 

I'd like to express another perspective on this most important and puzzling question. I believe the universe is God expressing itself, not as a creator separate from it's creation, but the only expereincer in existence. I believe the evolution of the universe since the big bang is a continual developing emerging expression of the Transcendent becoming Immanent. I think the deepest most subtle part of our consciousness and awareness is not separate from God and it is beyond limits or boundaries of time or space and can be realized through meditative and contemplative practices among other routes.

 

I hardly know what to say, so ......... WELCOME TO HERE

 

To add a little more to this perspective...I think when seen in this light, (of God not being separate from creation) any questions of why would God create a universe where beings suffer can then be reinterpreted in a subtlety different way, but one which vastly changes the understanding of Reality itself. God is not merely some kind of outside observer, watching us go through the unavoidable peaks and valleys of experience...but God is the only one truly experiencing the joy and pain of existence.

Also, I'm not pointing out this notion just as a way to deal with the problem of suffering, but I think it's a reality that stands on it's own and is self-evident.


-Thanks crank

 

There aren't many people who deliberately choose suffering despite the supposed benefits touted by those who don't suffer.

 

As a hypothesis suppose GOD is inherently evil by man's standards and IT created the earth because IT enjoyed watching the resulting suffering.

 

Said it before..."maltheism" (belief in an Evil God) DOES resolve a lot of problems of theodicy.

While those who believe in the "total goodness of God" get stuck trying to explain His "benevolence" in creating tornados, the Ebola virus, etc.......to accept that God is an evil sadistic bastard answers those questions quite nicely.

 

Interesting post. Am going to have to do some research into maltheism.

 

perhaps that's part of his game? forcing his minions to explain away the evil. it would be like watching ants squirm when salt is poured on them.

you can picture him setting up the great fail. install the software "god is good", then make sure they get error 404 every time they try to access it. they'll keep jabbing away at those keys, desperately trying substititions like Fluffylambs '98 - which never work. god the cruel hacky geek.

 

For the halibut.

 

That would conflict with the essence of first-hand spiritual experiences and realizations. Anyone who is solemnly dedicated to a spiritual path will undoubtedly be host to spiritual realities through consciousness and awareness. The accounts of such experiences reflect a common tone of a closeness or oneness with God (Ultimate Reality, Absolute Ground of Being, whatever you wish) that is felt as an expansive presence of divine grace and infinite Love or as a dis-identification of one's limited mind and ego and a realization and reunification of one's true identity as eternal ever-present nondual awareness which transcends, encompasses and remains untouched by the transitory world. Examples would be Satori, Samadhi, Kensho, Ecstasy, Illuminated Unitive or nonconceptual mind Cosmic and Christ consciousness, the Awakening Intoxication and Permanence of Love, Rigpa, Mahamudra, etc..all of which reflect a wider conception of existence that reveals a greater reality that even transcends words like "total goodness of God". Even the wrathful deities in Buddhist dark retreats are interpreted as benevolent beings that induce spiritual progression.

To even conceive the question of God as good or evil automatically constricts God to a theoretical finite mental object and also implies God is a separate localized consciousness with a limited dualistic conception of reality; projecting our limited humanness onto God.

The overall topology or map of reality of the major religions are in agreement and hold that gross physicality (the concrete world) is in a way the furthest away from God...and as one moves through subtler and subtler levels of reality, one progresses closer to Divine realization. An example would be- matter to life to mind to higher mind to soul to spirit and nonduality.

The tornadoes and viruses occur in the realm of matter. Suffering only occurs in the limited mind of the world with separation or ignorance. In reality, paradoxically, there is no separation of self and Spirit...all suffering is illusionary, transitory and impermanent...God's reality of ineffable perfection is not bounded by the illusionary experience of the world and is eternally nonlocal and atemporal.

 

Magnificent post in its entirety. This reality is our assigned playpen. To get out of it, we must grow up, i.e. towards higher quality consciousness. What we don't know is whether we were devolved from perfection/unity to do time working the salt mines or a recent birthing of consciousness babes in a universe that shows signs of growing pains.

 

or, mental masturbation

 

Perhaps to the uninitiated.

 

I resist this kind of stuff. Never seems to work.

I have had the vivid dream that seems to affirm this kind of thinking, but reality quickly brushes it away. Life is really hard work, our place is to learn to do what we have to do and to do it. The rest of this is just a way to let someone else take our personal responsibility away. Weak.

Nothing against you, but my reality does not include a simple way out.

 

Well, the implication that my spiritual path is a simple way out is a misconception I believe. I really don't know who would be taking my responsibility away, I'm guessing you're referring to a savior? Is that fair to say?

Meditative and contemplative practices are extremely difficult work, especially when you're actively trying to transform your own mind and ego to reflect the spiritual ideals you begin to become aware of. The easy part would be just to go along with the wants and desires and currents of your life and mind, never halting the conditioned thought stream long enough to just see and become aware and even question your own motivations in your thoughts speech and actions. A common prayer in any wisdom tradition has a common desire after one has an initial awakening, always something like "Lord, help me become a worthy beacon, to reflect your Light to the world."

The Dalai Lama when asked what the meaning of life is, said "To embody the Transcendent." The entire meaning of existence to him is to become a current for the absolute highest transcendent reality. Jesus spoke of the narrow gate, that only a very few will enter, I believe he was referring to those who see the value of having a relationship to life that ultimately transcends but includes the world.

To make any sincere progress in this area is amazingly difficult and goes against our animal nature, genetics and biology, our culturally instilled value systems, worldview and psychology and our ravenous mind of egocentric emotions. More and more of oneself has to be put into the light, and less can be put away for ourselves.

To make heartfelt genuine progress takes tenacity, patience and grace. Life does becomes easier in a way because you become aware of a sacred dimension to everything.

 

Do you think it could be both? An ascent toward's the highest domain of the Infinite and a descended Grace that connects us and helps remove the veil of forgetfulness.

Anyways this is an interesting video that deals with that issue, and the overall question of this thread.

Note-some of this guy's other material may be considered quasi-kookery, but like the saying goes- No one's smart enough to be wrong 100% of the time.

[video=youtube_share;nhM2Jm0SbVs]http://youtu.be/nhM2Jm0SbVs[/video]