AMA Says Transgender Patients Don't Need Surgery To Change Birth Certificate

It's not mutilating. transgender people are generally very happy with the results of their surgery. Doctors are able to make the new genitalia look very real and even have a significant amount of sensitivity. I'm not going to address your strawmen points about removing lungs or putting floppy ears on chlidren because those are silly made up issues. Strawmen. If you're having so much trouble defeating the argument without strawmen then maybe you're on the wrong side of the argument.

 

I really am having trouble following your logic and beg you to perhaps use bullet points to explain. I will do the same below

transgender/cross dressing is a psychological disorder, a mental condition, not physical like a broken leg

insisting that you are an alien, or a puppy dog is also a psychological disorder, a mental condition

you suggest penis removal to treat those who claim they are not the gender/sex they were born

you call it a strawman when that logic is tossed back at you discussing the person who claims to be an alien or puppy dog

the only way that your logic could be used is if there is medical proof, by looking at chromosomes that show Jimmy really is female and the penis must go.

Am I missing something here or are you using a double standard as your logic?

 

Being transgender is not a disorder. It leads to disorders. It leads to depression and suicide if left untreated. It's a major identity crisis that's far worse than a physical condition like a broken leg.

There is no such thing as a psychological condition that makes you think your a dog and if there was these would be people who would not function in society whether they had floppy ears or not. Transgender people come out fully recoverable from their depression and suicide issues almost immediately after surgery and are able to successfully be a constructive member of society. You can't defeat that logic so you're distracting the argument with stupid ideas like someone wanting to be a dog.

 

as convincing as your opinion may seem, it is not supported by facts. having your penis lopped off does not eliminate the psychological disorder.

Below is a conclusion from one study

Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.

here is the HYPERLINK to that study http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

and another conclusion

There is no conclusive evidence that sex change operations improve the lives of transsexuals, with many people remaining severely distressed and even suicidal after the operation, according to a medical review conducted exclusively for Guardian Weekend tomorrow.

linky to that story

http://rense.com/general54/sayres.htm

so, it appears that using surgery to treat a mental disorder may not be the best path. To try and make a mockery of those who believe they are aliens or a puppy dog is nothing more than a display of intolerance and a myopic position only for sexual mental disorders

 

Legally, in my view, a person should be able to identify with whatever gender he or she chooses. Government should not restrict this right in any way, shape or form. What do I care? More importantly, why give government such authority over people? It serves no valid purpose.

You can't genetically change your identity. That is what the law should be concerned with, for the purpose of administration of our justice system and our health system.

 

We would want them accurate. But for a small % of the population, it is in error. Physical attributes don't mesh with genetic, or whatever cause, attributes of an individual.
The whole human development process is not A or B, black or white. It is a dynamic scale.

And from your list provided, maybe 1 would care about gender. And in today's society, sports is the one.

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The way you have folks talk is, today I want to be female, so I can shower with females. Tomorrow, I think I'll be male so I can play baseball. Some people just don't think things through. All emotional reaction. Find worse case scenario and apply it across the board.

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Case in point. How ridiculous is this post? Dogs or bunnies. Simply foolish.
And for someone to think one thinking they are an alien or a puppy dog is the same as a human with the wrong genitalia is really foolish.

 

We agree on that.

We disagree on this part. A small percent of the population may "feel" that this would be in error, but Doctors dont make those kinds of errors. The Doctor knows what he delivered, and signed off on.
Just because someone feels they may be something else, doesnt make the BC and the Doctor at the time wrong, or "in error" by any means.

 

I lived in Turkey from 200-2004, and throughout that time I traveled to Kurdish areas of Iraq, Turkey, Syria, and a small part of Iran near Tabriz.

I found no difference between the average Muslim there, and the average Christian here.

However, I find many similarities between extremist Mulsim there, and far right evangelicals here. The only difference is the amount of law enforcement that prevents oppression based on religious dogma.

Maybe you should live in a Muslim country, and untill you do I seem to have you at a disadvantage.

Now that is your queue to start that whole "I don't need to have traveled to a Muslim country to kno what they're up to"

 

Come on, no one is infallible. But I'm not saying the doc got it wrong.
But in 100% of the humans and animals, genitalia is not always ones gender. It is NOT an A or B 100% of the time. Except for death and taxes, nothing is 100%, ever.

 

mrriage equality shouldn't hinge on genetics. The thing that kills the anti gay argument is the fact that sexual behavior is a choice, but sexual orientation is not a choice. Or nobody would ever choose to be gay

 

Correct.
I had a gay person tell me, and this is what changed my mind, why would I choose to be gay and be tortured all of my life. This person knew from the age of 10-12 that something was different.
And the nutters who claim it is a choice, choose to remain ignorant. Plain and simple.

 

Well, thats the part we disagree on. I dont believe in the new "Sex and Gender" are 2 seperate things mantra. 100% of the time, if theres a Penis...it's a Male is my belief. So when a doctor sees a Penis, and declares "boy" on the cert....this is something that would never need changing.

The info was accurate at the time it was certified IMO.

Now if someone is born with nothing...or a mismash of both...or both.....then I would support them having the choice, and all BC's be updated to that.

 

Theres always someone who will choose what another thinks noone would.

Pontiac sold a few Azteks afterall. Aaaand of course it's well known that some people choose to like scat, or whatever it may be called in which they choose to play around with fecal matter.


Sorry, nothing is out of bounds as far as choice goes....no matter how much it would make the rest of us say "no F-Ing way anyone would choose that".

Some do.

 

Then it is settled all women sports need to be abolished. there is no need to have separate women and men league's in any sports if you can willy nelly pick your sex on any given day and switch back when you feel like it
Tiger Woods should be allowed to wake up one morning and decide I feel like a women today there for im going to go play in that LPGA tournament and next week im going to feel like a man so I can go play in the PGA tournament

 

Actually, Goldwater, what we have here is a contradiction. The AMA doesn't want science to change according to new information. They want personal feelings to dictate what can be documented about a person's identity. By this standard, the intelligent design advocates might as well get their way and we should teach creationism in biology.

 

The thing is once a real person dealing with gender dysphoria (the clinical term for transgenderism as deemed by the American Psychiatric Association) decides to transition, they very rarely transition back, and if they do it's before they've had any surgery.

You guys should really talk with a real transgendered person and get some context about these people before running off and judging them.

 

Really? How many Muslims have been forced to convert, raped, beheaded, crucified, or murdered in mass graves within the U.S.?

 

so now your are telling me only a psychiatrist can make the determination if your a man or a women not your genes not your reproductive parts and not even the individual

so Tiger Woods all he needs to do is get a note from a psychiatrist saying he is a women today there for has the right to participate in the LPGA tournament and the week after have a note from a psychiatrist saying he is a man today so he can participate in the PGA tournament

and who are you or anyone to say different when all gender is reduced to is how you feel

 

Stay classy there Rich

 

Stay oblivious Goldwater.

 

The implications of the AMA not wanting science to change according to new information are far less potent than the APA's take on it, and thank God they have chosen to remove homosexuality from the psycho-sexual disorder category

 

Try this again. As 1st response was not posted due to busy site.
You are free to believe as you wish. We all are.
It may have been accurate at birth, but if the penis baby develops breasts at puberty, then what?

How many scales of masculinity are there and feminism? Men can be very masculine to feminine and a whole sliding scale in between. Same with women.
Then there is a small % who fall in between that and get classified incorrectly because of what was seen at birth. Having no clue how masculine/feminine/ or other will be at puberty.

 

Classic example of an emotion based response.
A note from a psychiatrist, more than that, and no reputable psychiatrist goes handing out gender change wish cards on a daily basis.

 

why not? there is no test. it is all in some ones mind. who is to argue against how some one feels at any given time?

 

That's asking rather a lot, seeing there is no such thing.