Can you condemn Mohammad Ali for his racist views?

Words. Matter.
Trump is not out actually deporting Mexicans, but his words influence people, they effect people....they matter. I'm NOT killing you, but if (repeat, if) I said I was going to kill you, then I'm sure you'd think that words matter (even though I hadn't killed you yet.)

A KKK Grand Wizard might not have lynched any blacks, but his words about the black man matter alot. Ali's Nation of Islam teachings taught him that the white man is the devil.....those a "just words", but they serve to hurt racial harmony and are of course not what's best for the world.

[Just a hypothetical, of course.]

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There's a LOT to dump on! Don't even get me started about the talking donkeys, talking snakes, talking dead guy, etc.

 

The problem with Hitler is not what he said, but what he did. Unless Muhammad Ali killed several million people, it is a false equivalency.

You seem to be hung up on what people say rather than what they do. Mohammed Ali may have said racist remarks, but from what I've seen, he was quite the humanitarian.

 

What race are Jews by American standards Foolardi, "Black," "White," or "Asian?"

 

Yes, he was good and bad. Nobody is 100% of either. Apparently Hitler was good with children....but....

 

Wait what? Dedicating government resources to attacking and undermining a "racial" group in America takes a lower priority than religion???!!!

 

You have some reading to do.

Anther question you might look into: What did Mandela accomplish by using terrorism in South Africa?

Somehow, you seem to think America just hands out equal treatment under the law even when citizens don't demand it. But, that is NOT our history. In fact, the BLM movement today points that out.

 

I blame religion: their invisible friend who lives in the sky says that they are his "chosen people", so of course they are supremacists, not unlike the Nazis, basically.

 

Whites get some of that hatred, in the FIRST PLACE, from the general hatred in the Bible. Jesus/God taught hatred, like when Jesus condemned 4 villages to hell for not believing that his magic tricks were real (not believing in him) (Matthew 11:23, Luke 10:13-15.) Eliminate that underlying teaching of hatred, and the result will be less hatred in the world. Mohammad taught that Muslims will eventually have to fight/kill the Jews.

 

Good point, as Ali was not as bad as Hitler, to be sure. It's just that both were racists, and racial supremacism is bad. Ali, in that video I posted where he threatens to harm the interviewer, he hates atheists, but he's entitled to his opinion on that, I believe.

 

So then we weigh the good vs the bad in a person.

 

Yes, like Jesus said "love your neighbor" (like many philosophers have said), which is good. And he (allegedly) said that if you don't suck up to him (he had a bigger ego than Trump and Ali combined) he'll torture your neighbor, which is bad. So we weigh the good and the bad about Jesus, and come to the conclusion that overall he's more bad than good, of course.

Ali was not all bad, to be sure.

 

This is a total cop-out. Hatred in the Bible??? I'm not religious, so there's gotta be another angle. Besides the hatred listed in the bible isn't racial. It's believers versus non-believers.

 

Nonsense, some of it is racial.
Here's a good list for you, from a KKK web site:

30 Biblical Reasons for Separatism [racial segregation]
1. God wills all races to be as He made them. Any violation of God's original purpose manifests insubordina-tion to Him. (Acts 17:26, Rom. 9:19-24)
2. God made everything to reproduce "after his own kind" (Gen 1:11-12, 6:20, 7:14). Kind means type and color. He would have kept them all alike to begin with had he intended equality.
3. God originally determined the bounds of the habitations of nations, so they would be saved. (17:26, Gen.10:5,32, 11:8, Dt. 32:8 )
4. Miscongenation (sp?) means the mixture of the races, especially the black and white races, or those of outstanding type, or color. The Bible even goes farther than this. It is against different branches of the same stock intermarrying such as Jews marrying other descendants of Abraham ( Ezra 9-10, Neh. 9-13, Jer 50:37, Ezek 30:5)
5. Abraham forbade Eliezer (sp?) to take a wife for Isaac of Canaanites ( Gen. 24:1-4). God was so pleased with this that He directed whom to get ( Gen. 24:7, 12-67)
6. Isaac forbade Jacob to take a wife of the Canaanites ( Gen. 27:46-28:7)
7. Abraham sent all his sons of the concubines, and even of his second wife, far away from Isaac so their descendants would not mix (Gen. 25:1-6)
8. Esau disobeying this law brought the final break between him and his father after lifelong companionship with him ( Gen 25:28, 26:34-35, 27:46, 28:8-9)
9. The two branches of Isaac remained segregated forever ( Gen 36, 46:8-26)
10. Ishmael and Isaac's descendants remained separated forever ( Gen 25:12-23, 1 Chr 1:29)
11. Jacobs sons destroyed a whole city to maintain separated (Gen 34)
12. God forbad intermarriage between Israel and all other nations ( Ex 34:12-16, Dt 7:3-6)
13. Joshua forbad the same thing on sentence of death ( Josh 23:12-13)
14. God cursed angels for leaving their own "first estate" and "their own habitation" to marry the daughters of men (Gen 6:1-4, 2 Pet 2:4, Jude 6,7)
15. Miscogenation (sp?) caused Israel to be cursed ( Judges 3:6-7, Num 25:1-8 ). Note that Phinehas' act was righteous ( Ps 106:30)
16. This was Solomon's sin ( 1 King 11)
17. This was the sin of Judahites returning from Babylon ( Ezra 9:1-10:2, 10-18, 44, Neh. 13:1-30)
18. God commanded Israel to be separated ( Lev 20:24, Num 23:9, 1 King 8:53)
19. Israelites recognized as a separate people in all ages because of God's choice and command ( Matt 10:6, John 1:11). Equal rights in the gospel gives no right to break this eternal law
20. Separation between Israelites and all other nations to remain in all eternity ( Is 2:2-4,Ezek 37, 47:13-48, Zech 14:16-21, Matt 19:28, Lk 1:32-33, Rev 7:1-8, 14:1-5)
21. All nations will remain separated from one another in their own parts of the earth forever ( Acts 17:26, Gen 10:5, 32, 11:8-9, Dt 32:8, Dan 7:13-14, Rev 11:15, 21:24)
22. Certain people in Israel were not even to worship with others ( Dt 23:1-3, Ezra 10:8, Neh 9:2, 10:28, 13:3)
23. Even in heaven certain groups will not be allowed to worship together ( Rev 7:7-17, 14:1-5, 15:2-5)
24. Separation in the O.T. was so strong that an ox and an ass could not be worked together ( Dt 22:10)
25. Miscogenation (sp?) caused disunity among God's people ( Num 12)
26. Stock was forbidden to be bred with other kinds ( Lev 19:19)
27. Sowing mixed seed in the same field was unlawful ( Lev 19:19)
28. Different seeds were forbidden to be planted in the same vineyards ( Dt 22:9)
29. Wearing garments of mixed fabrics forbidden ( Dt 22:11, Lev 19:19)
30. Christians and certain other people of a like race are to be separated based upon behavior ( Mt 18:15-17, 1 Cor 5:9-13, 6:15, 2 Cor 6:14-18, Eph 5:11, 2 Thess 3:6-16, 1 Tim 6:5, 2 Tim 3:5)

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I'm not saying YOU. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

I love how there is only one clip on youtube of this from an uber-right wing biased political channel. If he was such a racist (like say...David Duke...oh wait I dont know who that is), then everyone would know about it and he wouldn't be considered an American hero. Evidently you don't love this country as much as I do. Go onto Bing News, find me a credible newspaper with claims on Muhammed Ali's racism. There's a reason George Rockwall is not considered an American hero and this star athlete is.

 

You're wrong. If you said you were going to kill me, then you're just some anonymous person on the internet saying they'd kill me. That's why police don't act upon every instance of someone saying they'd kill someone else on the internet. There's set criteria that has to be met before such a statement is counted as a credible threat. Words don't matter as much as actions. For example, I can say I hate people, yet if I donate to charity and volunteer, then those actions outweigh my words.

 

You're making my point I think.

All these listings are regarding believers versus non believers. These passages can deliberately get interpreted into racist meanings for racist purposes. This is just one reason why racism should be addressed as a priority above religion.

 

That thinking is not true at all - one example - the prophet of Islam had sex with a 9 year-old girl, but most Americans don't even know about that - they think that Muslims are against pedophilia (not that they consider a pedophile as the #1 role model of all time). We aren't as smart as you give us credit for.

 

Dude, the words were from speeches that Ali himself gave, and it's on the video. It doesn't matter if the clip was created by an "uber-right wing" person or not. Hitler could have created the video and it wouldn't have changed what Ali said one stinking bit!

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But this is one of the most respected people of his generation saying those racist things, so it does resonate, Ali's racism does have an impact - his hatred of whites does have an impact. He said whites are the devil, mirroring what his Islamic leader said.

 

I don't give a flying f*ck what that racist draft dodging anti American pos hated or considered his enemy. My only point here is to shed the racist light on the very guy that others feel the need to praise. One can't sink much lower than by praising a racist.

 

Nah....He's free to his wrong opinions. Condemn is really such an overused word now days. I just love it when our country's leaders say things like "We condemn Isis for burning people alive". I'm like...no (*)(*)(*)(*). Do you even have to say it?

 

I find it hard to believe that his words had an impact, it wasn't him who essentially won the civil rights movement, nor was he assassinated for what he was saying. He was taking the general attitude at the time facing blacks and pointing it at the whites who were saying equally vile things. Sometimes that's a good way to make a point.

 

What you mean to say is that as always, I won't condemn those who you want, when you want, based on charges you bring to the forum's attention. You know very little beyond that. I will not cooperate with your agenda.

 

No, they should be considered people who will not condemn who you say to condemn, when you want them to condemn them. on the basis you provide. That is all you know about them. There may be other reasons besides being racist or homophobic. You can pronounce whatever judgement you want, but you cannot do it based on logic or reason as secular humanists do. Humanists who are bound by the constraints of logic and reason are obliged to consider all sorts of reasons why that cooperation is not there. Maybe they don't like you or want to cooperate with your anti-theist agenda and they do not see this as doing squat to prevent a single act of racism or homophobia.

 

Then I would expect to see you condemning todays acts of bigotry and speaking passionately in favor of equal rights while you pursue your vendetta against theism. I don't see you doing both.

 

I do not take any position on what religious texts should or should not have in them because I am not of the faith. That is a matter for the faithful to decide. As a secularist, I see them as historical texts, and I am not one for censoring or sanitizing historical documents. I don't want to rewrite Huck Finn, or Mein kampf, or Euripides plays, or Measure for Measure either.