I was talking about pregnancy. A man can't terminate a pregnancy. That is the right women have but men don't. Not relevant. A man is beholden to the child after it is born. He would have all the same responsibilities a woman would after the birth. But she can kill it if she doesn't want it. A man cannot. Though it doesn't take place in his body it's still his baby. That is biology. As you said above, she can take it up with the manufacturer. And a fetus is not her body. It has an independent heartbeat and nervous system. Not legally. You were talking about equality. You claimed something that wasn't equal was equality. A woman can choose not to be a mother after conception with no legal ramifications. A man cannot choose not to be a father after conception without legal ramifications. That by any definition is not equality. You can carry on about biology all you want and make nonsensical comments but you can't get around the fact i mentioned above. No it gets less restricted. . If you have information that indicates women are being forced to abort then you should do the right thing and report it to the police... Warning, they will ask you for PROOF. UH, NO where in the following did I say you wanted to make abortion illegal...."""How utterly unfeeling and callous to want to force women to have kids they don't want....how utterly unfeeling and callous to want a kid brought into this world with a parent that didn't want it and/or can't afford it..""""" You should really try not inserting your words into other's posts... That's called cherry picking....it means you can't face what is written in a post... ...and it's YOU who is doing the misrepresenting as I have shown above... Now, could you explain how a man should have a say in abortion? You don't want me to "misrepresent " what you post but you still haven't answered that question.[/QUOTE]
So was I : You said, ""Donating a kidney and pregnancy are two different things."" I replied: ""Not in the context of "using one's body to sustain the life of another"....." A pregnant woman uses her body to sustain a life. AGAIN: No they don't, talk to the manufacturer and complain.....Men don't have to be pregnant and give birth WAHHHHHHHH NOT fairRRRRRRR Uh, how would you rectify that situation? Of course it's relevent....what are you proposing the world does about men not being able to get pregnant??? (bolding , mine) NO, women do NOT have a right to kill a child. WHERE DO YOU GET THIS CRAP ? YES, once it is BORN it is his baby....but before that it is the woman's fetus. . WHY? SHE isn't the one complaining about it YOU ARE! It is in and sustained by her body and NO it does NOT have independent means to survive at the time of most abortions... It's her body ALONE that will gestate and give birth...so it's her choice....NO one else owns her body, NO one. Now either prove that's incorrect or get off the subject.... Again, what do you intend to DO about it?? ...besides whine about females and males having different body structures....will it help if you do that?? Neither can YOU... No more restricted, it's against the law to kill a born person. . You had this part of my post you quoted included but unaddressed: ""If you have information that indicates women are being forced to abort then you should do the right thing and report it to the police... Warning, they will ask you for PROOF. UH, NO where in the following did I say you wanted to make abortion illegal...."""How utterly unfeeling and callous to want to force women to have kids they don't want....how utterly unfeeling and callous to want a kid brought into this world with a parent that didn't want it and/or can't afford it..""""" You should really try not inserting your words into other's posts... That's called cherry picking....it means you can't face what is written in a post... ...and it's YOU who is doing the misrepresenting as I have shown above... Now, could you explain how a man should have a say in abortion? You don't want me to "misrepresent " what you post but you still haven't answered that question""""
That's a bit different than donating a kidney. Have the right to terminate pregnancy but women do. That is a right women have yet men don't. Inequality. I don't know. I was just pointing out that it was not equality. No it isn't. I never said anything about men not being able to get pregnant. Abortion is killing a baby in the womb No, it's still his baby when it's in the womb. Women don't make those all on their own. I am not complaining. I'm pointing out a right women have but men don't as an argument against your statement that it's about equality. So? Blah blah blah. I didn't say it wasn't her body. I didn't say it wasn't her choice. Stop with the canned political arguments. They don't address my position. Do? You'd have to talk to politicians for that. I'm just a welder. I can't do anything. I never suggested that the baby doesn't gestate in the woman's body. I also never suggested anything regarding the law. So you presented nothing for me to get around. see, you have no idea what choice is. The only choice isn't death. You can put an infant up for adoption. You can't adopt out a pregnancy you're in it unless you kill it. So right there you have another option. Further you can kill an infant (before you get your panties in a bunch you did say father's can blow off their child support) so yes the options are more. I don't address irrelevance. No it's just a pointless statement. I never mentioned forcing women to do anything. I don't know why you posted it. From the king of the strawman? That's ironic. Take your own advice princess. I never argued that men should have a say. You really need to read what's posted and respond to that instead of trying to imagine where I'm going. You said it's equality, I proved it wasn't. That's all. If you want to yack about what is to be done to make it equal go find someone that insists that men and women are completely equal. I'm not interested.
Maybe you'd understand if you read all the words in the sentence: """If science made it possible to take the would-be aborted fetus and implant it inside you to carry full term, who would be willing to do it? Is it big enough? Bolded enough?
No need to reply to every one of my posts and reasonable people take people at their word....the post clearly didn't get the point and a reasonable, non-defensive, less emotional person could see that.
Although I see what you are trying to prove with this thread, I really do not understand your argument - Why would someone else's child ever be anyone else's responsibility? At least my "neither-nor-perspective" on abortion is based on responsibility and responsibility only.
Why do you think the list of effects of pregnancy on women is wonderful? Do you enjoy women in pain? Only thing you can get off on? What? BTW, the OP did NOT say a child should be anyone else's responsibility.
You are complaining about causes of nature and pointing at something women are hardwired to do as if it was some sort of oppression. Unlike you, I think children are awesome and regard mother- and fatheehood as highly honourable. Having children means sacrafices of your female beauty, but so what? It is totally worth it because nothing compares to the beauty of being a mother imo. Huh? Is that projection?...Wait, what? Yes, they did.
I wasn't complaining, I was pointing out facts. No, not all women are "hard-wired" to have babies. Forcing them to have babies IS oppression. Please show your [proof that I ever indicated children aren't awesome or quit lying. So? No point there. Obviously you didn't bother to read the list (how convenient for you). Very few effects have to do with looks. That is up to each woman to decide for herself. Luckily you have NO control over what women do "Projection"? No, I asked you why you thought all those effects on women, including the ones you didn't bother to read , were "wonderful"? Was the "possible death" part of your "wonderful"? Any other painful, debilitating, permanent effects like infertility, wonderful to you , too? NO, the OP asked very clearly : ""If science made it possible to take the would-be aborted fetus and implant it inside you to carry full term, who would be willing to do it?"" If a woman is going to abort a fetus she no longer has responsibility for it nor would she be asking someone to take responsibility for it. He was trying to make the point that all these people who think pregnancy is no more than stretch marks (beauty) wouldn't trade places even though they want to force the woman to go through it..
Sure sounded like complaining to me. Eh, yes. Literally every female is hardwired yo be a mother; this goes for everything from female cats to female humans. Who has ever suggested women should be forced to give birth? Then why are you against childbirth? My point is that all of those (most common) side-effects of child-birth are all totally worth it in the end. I read them all. Of course. Luckily, I have no such wishes either. It is not the first time you randomly accuse me of the most outrageous stuff, no I do not enjoy seeing women suffer and never did I say I did. The real question that should be asked here is rather that of; how can a creature able to cause all these things to a woman not be considered a life? Getting unwillingly pregnant is irresponsible and aborting is irresponsible too. I would consider taking the baby if the woman was someone I knew and respected.
It may have since you got so much else wrong. I 'm not surprised at such blatant sexism, comparing women to animals as if they didn't have a brain or could reason or had preferences as individuals. Well, it's good to know you're Pro-Choice...with your other comments I didn't expect you to care about women's rights, them being no better than cats. Please show your proof that I ever indicated children aren't awesome, or am against childbirth or quit lying. Maybe to you but women tend to actually think and think for themselves.....have all the kids you want, no one is trying to control your right to have kids.. No, you didn't or you didn't comprehend that 99% of them have nothing to do with "beauty". Seems like it with your insistence that every woman is "hardwired" like an animal to breed. YES, you referred to my list of effects of pregnancy with " ain't nature WONDERFUL" No, the real questions you left UNanswered :Was the "possible death" part of your "wonderful"? Any other painful, debilitating, permanent effects like infertility, wonderful to you , too? Who doesn't consider a fetus life? That is NOT what the OP asked. Here it is AGAIN: NO, the OP asked very clearly : ""If science made it possible to take the would-be aborted fetus and implant it inside you to carry full term, who would be willing to do it?"" NO, some women on BC get pregnant....however women are under NO obligation to use birth control. Aborting a child that you don't want and/or can't afford is VERY responsible...just not to you who wouldn't accept a fetus into your body unless you approved of the woman it came from. So the fetus's life really isn't all that important to you...it must have good breeding or it's not so "precious". Ya know all that blather about how honorable it is to be a parent and motherhood is wonderful.. ...yet you denigrate what women have to endure to have a kid...saying it's only about her "beauty" and ignoring or disclaiming what women actually go through and risk and endure to produce a child....
It is more of a discussion to see who is willing to put their actions where their mouth is. It looks like we agree when it comes to personal responsibility. It is really a question for those who support laws against abortion. While I feel that unwanted pregnancies and abortions are both irresponsible, I would never agree with a law forcing a woman to carry full term.
There is a difference between science and sexism. Women are hardwired to have offspring. There is absolutely nothing sexist about that statement. Many decide not to, but that doesn't change their biology. Men are hard wired (No pun intended) to deliver their part in the process.
Oh ya, like cats and other animals....and computers and other things that can't reason......gee, that's not sexist. The term "hard wired" means they have no choice, they must breed or die!!!!!! How asinine. Women may be built to gestate but that hardly "hard wiring"......as if that's the only thing they exist for (which is what sexists think) Then there's the implication that if they do not bear children they must have "bad wiring"...more sexism... Biology is not destiny.
No reasonable person would find sexism in that statement. No sane person would continue to call it sexism after it has been clarified twice. I already know you have a hair trigger when it comes to making sexism accusations, but this was not even close.
