Farage REVEALS brilliant plan to secure Brexit in 48 HOURS

Why can't Poland or Hungary enact legislation that it feels its people want?
Why should the EU be the ultimate arbiter of national expedient?

 

And is that any less of a reason than why I can't buy SC Johnson acrylic floor polish down at Sainsbury's because its' colourless?? I can buy the stuff anywhere else in the world except in the EU.....Amazon can deliver it within a couple of days though...from the US....with whom we don't have a trade agreement....

 

No it is not any less of a reason to be leaving the EU!

Edit, do you think the British Government will change the law (that it voted FOR in the EU to reduce the chemicals and protect the environment) when we leave the EU?

 

Italy was in far worse trouble 5 and 10 years ago.

What sources would you believe ?

 

There's a whole range of legislation on which Poland and Hungary can do whatever they like, and there's another range on which they are bound by international treaty.

The only way that the UK can "do whatver it wants" is to unilaterally back out of all international treaties and become an international pariah - I don't think that was the kind of positive outcome Brexit advocates had in mind.

 

A failed commodities trader?

 

where does this concept come from?

 

Ordering things on a one off basis is one thing, doing business on a regular basis with the US is far more difficult than doing it with an EU county. The customs issues alone are a nightmare never mind having to deal with the IRS and so on.

I'm not conflating anything. I'm saying that the economic impact of leaving the EU will be significant and leaving without a deal will be profound.

 

The issue is that its a question for the nation state. Germany has a major issue with the US because they still accept animal testing on certain products whilst this is anathema to the Germans. Should that be an issue for all 27 nations or should they be allowed to deliberate on their own? Should the Germans be the ultimate arbiter for all other countries since all countries would have to agree?

 

The EU is though and that's the issue

 

so....are you saying that we will stay in that condition for perpetuity or do you think that given the way industry works they will adapt? Are you of the thought process that fluid situations are insoluble and no body has the ability to get round problems???

 

Ah, the "rule of so" strikes again......

What I'm saying is that right now, being a member of the EU has proved to be pretty satisfactory for the UK economy.

Leaving the EU, especially with a "no deal", has some easily demonstrable immediate disadvantages but IMO any medium to long term advantages have yet to be substantiated. A case has been put forth that, once the yoke of EU oppression has been thrown off, the UK will be free to negotiate trade deals with other countries which will allow business growth with those countries to more than offset any business lost with the EU but IMO it hasn't been shown that:

• Being a member of the EU has been a significant disadvantage in doing business with non-EU countries.
  • The non-EU share of UK exports is rising
  • Other EU countries are doing even better dealing with non-EU countries
• The UK will necessarily be able to negotiate better trade terms. After all we are a smaller market (and hence have less leverage) than the EU
• Emerging markets are large enough to make up any shortfall. It doesn't matter how good our trade deal is with Lesotho, there's a limit to how many Range Rovers the Maseru JLR dealer can sell

No doubt business can in time find a way to mitigate some of the problems of leaving the EU but there's no certainty that they can achieve parity, much less improve on, the existing situation.

 

Is that another EU Directive...

As opposed to what? The trade agreement i.e. that which we voted for in the 70s has been an effective method of moving a truck from Dover to Calais and back the rest is pure conjecture as we've been prohibited from exploring any alternatives. By the prohibition of entering into bi-lateral trade agreements the UK has been unable to entertain any alternative construct so imagination can only take over. By entering into the bigboy world we can now explore those alternative which to some is a daunting prospect to others its a delicious challenge. Leaving mummy is never easy but we've all done it. We adapt and we explore a much wider option base with the ability to determine what is best for us without the political ramifications which requires the consensus of 27 other nations.

What are you worried about? You suggested that no body has shown you the alternative...maybe because we didn't have one! Now we have options and given that companies are used to weighing options on a cost and benefit basis we can entertain such options that benefit us. Do you imagine that the remaining EU nations will cease to trade with us? Do your think that German cars will become scarce or French wine will not flow at parties? We import more from the EU than we export so the onus is on them to compete with the alternatives.

 

haha

No, it's from another forum I frequented for around 15 years. It's a rule of thumb which states whatever follows the word "So" is a gross misrepresentation of the original post to which it refers. It's not inviolate but in my experience it's a good first order approximation.

Before concluding that we have to break off from the EU, I think it needs to be demonstrated that:

• The UK is missing out as a result of EU membership
• The trade deals the UK is likely to get dealing solo are better than those the EU has negotiated

Neither case has been made IMO.

German cars and French wine will continue to be available but they will be more expensive due to tariffs and increased bureaucracy around their import. This is only the tip of the iceberg, the bigger issue is the manufacturer who currently relies on parts delivered just-in-time from across the EU. These will become more expensive and, because they are now subject to customs inspections, may not be as reliable so instead of adopting cost-effective just in time manufacturing techniques, the manufacturer now has to hold parts stock - and now we're back to the 1970s.

Of course a bigger issue is that the manufacturer may choose to relocate. Being outside the EU is disadvantageous to servicing the EU market and although they may be in a better position to service other markets, so are plants in other countries. That's why Nissan in the UK is such a good example. At the moment it makes all the sense in the world for Nissan manufacturing to be in the UK - easy access to the European market, access to EU supply chains and for export outside the EU, the use of the trade deals that EU muscle has enabled. If the UK is outside the EU then Nissan will relocate manufacturing to its other EU plants. Over time as new models come up they will be assigned to Spain or France instead.

For the rest of the world, Nissan already has plants in place in its other major markets (China, Japan, US) and with free trade agreements between those countries and many others, there's no need for the UK plant.

 

You're not in parliament. Should anyone be taken with your opinions?

 

How will the boys in Basil skim your productivity if you leave? Dont you care about their needs?

 

Neither is Nigel Farage (well the UK parliament at least)

 

Yeah, I know.
It's in the quote.
If not being in parliament discredits one's opinion, none of us should be listened too by anyone

 

Neither is Nigel Farage nor has he ever been, do you have a point?

 

If never having been in parliament discredits his opinions, so too are yours

 

Obviously, but then I do not expect people to be voting in a particular way because of my, yours or anybody else on this forum!
So again did you have a point?

 

Do you expect anyon to listen to your opinion, or are you just talking to hear yourself speak?

 

No I never expect anyone to listen to my opinion which is why I try to stick to presenting facts, do you think people listen to your opinion on this forum?

 

Is that the village where you are too scared to call the police?

 

I've noticed now that lots of people start their sentences with "so" when replying to questions....it really hacks my nads....

So.........that's simply a question of adjusting logistsics and monitoring supply chains. Car manufacturers work on the basis of dynamic network collaborations where each part is monitored and located so the process is not really affected as much as what people think it will. BMW for example in the US import and export re-import and re-export parts and equipment over a mind boggling array of supply networks in the US, Canada and Mexico and the rest of the world so if they can do it on a worldwide basis then I am confused that people think we cannot fit into that same intergrated network? There are people and systems in play that are way more experienced and possess commercial know how in these logistical arrays an order of magnitude more than reporters from the BBC or politicians in Westminster can even fathom! All car manufacturers maintain highly sophisticated process monitoring systems that allow for fluidity in the manufacturing process. The system is not reliant of some customs guy at Calais with a yellow vest and a chip on his shoulder because le rost boeuf buggered off out of the EU!!

Talking of BMW their X series I think it is are all made in the US and imported back into Europe...how do they do that when there is no trade agreement with the US?

Regarding Nissan...since they're almost a French company (43% owned by Renault) I'm thinking that there is more than just supply chains at work here being that Renault is owned 20% by the French state. To coin a phrase there's wheels within wheels so I'm thinking that the French government is using Nissan UK as a battering ram against us. As for re-locating to other plants I'm doubtful of the feasibility of this bearing in mind the magnitude of the capital costs involved and the sheer number of suppliers involved.