Why Tax Return saga is incredibly stupid even by our standards.

The case leans his way because the law and the Constitution lean his way. Where do either require a public disclosure of his taxes?

 

The law does not: Section 6103(f)(1) of the IRC provides that, upon written request of the Chair of the House Ways and Means Committee, Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT), or Senate Finance Committee (hereinafter referred to as the “tax committees”), the Treasury Secretary “shall furnish” the requested tax returns or return information to the relevant committee. Under 6103(f)(2), the Treasury Secretary also “shall furnish” requested tax return information to the JCT’s chief of staff, who may share the return information to any of the tax committees. Absent the relevant taxpayer’s consent, any personally identifiable tax return information received by a tax committee under 6103(f)(1) or (f)(2) may only be provided when the requesting committee is “in closed executive session.” Section 6103(f)(5) also authorizes a whistleblower who has access to tax return information to disclose it to the tax committees “if such person believes such return or return information may relate to possible misconduct, maladministration, or taxpayer abuse.”



I must have missed the part in the constitution that says the president can lie to the American public and then not be asked to make good on his word. Care to point it out?

 

And according to the Mueller probe(Collusion) you are fundamentally wrong on that score, Trump tower aside(which wasn't even built anyway lol.)

 

"Absent the relevant taxpayer’s consent, any personally identifiable tax return information received by a tax committee under 6103(f)(1) or (f)(2) may only be provided when the requesting committee is “in closed executive session.”. This portion of the law you reference is incredibly important. That, and I referenced to the Fourth Amendment. The IRC does not overrule the fourth amendment(I suspect like many controversial government laws, it hadn't been lawfully challenged.)

But one of the best things about the Trump presidency is the opportunity to clarify law. There is no constitutional right to my taxation data. That belongs to the IRS, my tax lawyer and relevant financial corporations I enter an agreement with.

 

No one cares about your tax information, they care about the President of the United States disclosures. You may argue the search is unreasonable which is fine, others will argue it is reasonable given his position, his oath, his promises and his prior activities.

I personally don’t care either way, trumps base will ignore or cheer regardless of the information found and democrats will continue to hate him.

 

Obviously, Trump should not have lied and promised the American people he would release his tax returns when he knew that he needed to hide them.

U.S. Code § 6103

Disclosure to Committees of Congress

Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6103​

 

And now we have a piece of litigation that needs to be challenged. The Fourth Amendment is CLEAR. Any personal records, belongings, etc in your possession(which includes your taxes) is simply out of bounds, period. This law is unconstitutional.

Otherwise, there's nothing stopping Congress from accessing all of our personal information. Thanks to the recent desire for Trump's taxes, we can now identify a Fourth Amendment violation.

Hurray, America the land of supposed freedoms.

 

I really don’t care about people’s taxes. A fake appeal to the public.

 

They just pivot into something else after the Russia hoax was found out to be a hoax.

 

Which you won't discover from his tax returns. Which by the way he almost certainly doesn't do himself.

 

Huzzah for the enthusiasts for lying to the American people, as well, I guess.

Obviously, with Trump still hellbent on hiding his tax returns about which he had made his fake promise to make public like every other presidential nominee, IRS Code 6103 will be challenged in court. I make no pretense at divining the outcome.

The legal debate will be accompanied by the relentless public calls for him to come clean and honor his word as will his furtive resistance, no doubt, and that impasse continuously brought to the attention of the electorate for the duration. The prospect of presidential aspirants - both Democrats and Republicans - respecting the democratic tradition of openness - whilst Trump remains adamant in violating his assurance to the People - will be an enduring leitmotif of the campaign.

 

You have yet to explain how the tax return gives you any information about someone's character. What specific thing on Trump's tax return would have convinced you to vote for him? Is the lack of his tax return the reason you didn't vote for Trump?

 

It's not as much about Trump as much as it is about honesty and the respected tradition of applicants for the highest office in the land sharing that information with the People.
A knowledgable electorate is essential to the nation, and most Americans agree that Trump should keep his word.

​

You have to ask yourself, "Why would a presidential candidate feel the need to lie to the American people, repeatedly assuring them that he had every intention of coming clean with his tax returns like every other presidential nominee, and then make fake excuses for hiding them?"

 

Because knowing the tax return of someone says NOTHING about character, leadership, knowledge or any other characteristic I'd prefer in a president.

Why would he lie? Duh.... he was a main party candidate for federal office. Of COURSE he lied. You think Hillary is a paragon of virtue? Pro tip - she lied numerous times during the campaign, sometimes in the same sentence.

You call it a respected tradition. No. Just no. It's just busybody nosy people who feel entitled. Our country is 243 years old. How old is this ridiculous thing where we gain some deep understanding of a person by numbers on a form?

 

You can believe that if it comports with your political agenda. Most Americans expect a presidential candidate to come clean, and find the information useful in assessing a candidate's suitability.

Diversions aside, Trump found it necessary to lie and hide his taxes, but there is no reason why the American public should not demand honesty. If Trump needs to persist in his lie, that is what he will do.

You can believe that if it comports with your political agenda. Americans have the right to relentlessly request Trump to keep his word to them. If he needs to keep hiding his promised tax returns, that is what he can do,

 

No you can't hide your earnings from the IRS, but you can from congress and the American public.

Because "he lied" isn't a reason to invade his privacy. We would literally have to investigate every politician alive if that were the case.

 

Again, If Trump feels he needs to persist in lying about complying with the customary practice of nominees' releasing their tax returns, defying public opinion, and resisting U.S. Code § 6103, that is what he will do.

There is no reason not to persist in relentlessly calling upon him to honor his word to the American people.

 

I don't think we are talking about the same thing.

I am simply asking why congress wants to breach his privacy. Seems like a fishing expedition to me.

I mean we already know he lies, so that is not really a good enough reason.

 

Trump promised HIS voters he would release his tax returns - he wasn’t talking to Hillary voters, he was promising His voters. They’re the ones who should be offended. The fact that their not shows this is a cult of personality, not a support of political ideals.

 

So you review both candidate's tax returns thoroughly before you decide to vote for the person with the (D) designation? I find that hard to believe.

Please, explain, specifically, which line item on the tax return provides value for you personally, before you decide to vote for the democrat. IOW - what specific data point value would have made you say, "Yes, Trump is my guy?"

I already know you don't have an answer. Hillary could have shot someone on 5th avenue and you still would have voted for her over Trump.

 

You would be dead wrong about Obama going over Dirty Donalds tax returns.Number one reason is that I'm certain he and for that matter most if not all of our presidents are not qualified to do an audit on a complicated tax return,and they are smart enough to know it.

 

Partisans never hold their own team accountable for promises made. You know this, Daniel. Partisans only care about what the other team did wrong. Always. Every time.

 

I specifically DID NOT vote for Hillary because she was just as toxic as Trump.

As for Trump's taxes, it's good to see if A - he's making anywhere near what he claims he makes and B - is he in any kind of financial bind that would make him vulnerable to black-mail. Extravagant lifestyle does not always equate with financial solvency.

 

And there must be a legislative purpose as has already been cited for Congress to request the tax returns of any citizen.

Why would the Constitution say either way? Can you point the part that says the President shall keep his word? That is a political question for the citizens to decide at the ballot box.

 

I was replying to Natty, not you.

I don't think taxes show blackmail vulnerabilities. As to his income, it's not relevant to the job. As to whether he's lying about his income; completely irrelevant. If he/she is running for president, they are lying through their teeth and shouldn't be trusted as a truth-teller about anything that comes out of their mouths.

I'm fairly confident that whatever Trump claims about anything has no relationship with the truth. True for Hillary as well. This is who we are, now. Honest people cannot be elected, so we know they are all liars.