Obama says Vietnam was a misunderstanding, >>mod edit<<

How else to you enable the wealthiest to earn record and private profits, supporting our public war effort against terror.

 

This just is not true. In fact, Ho let over one million N Viets emigrate to the South once it was established. And he sure as (*)(*)(*)(*) did not kill off millions.

We did go to Vietnam to fight the indigenous Viet Cong. RNV troops did not invade until about 1965 (See "We Were Soldiers" for a great read, or movie). But you are very wrong on this point. Either way, the North Vietnamese had a hell of a lot more business there than we did.

I am not here to defend Ho. But I do believe we need to work with the facts.

One would be that the American intervention in Vietnam caused more deaths there than the actions of any other entity. The only folks that had business in Vietnam were the Vietnamese. And in full educated opinion. the majority of the Vietnamese didn't give a crap about politics. They just wanted to be left alone to be farmers and simple retailers. We (*)(*)(*)(*)ed it up. Everything that we did with regard to Vietnam was the wrong decision. Until we finally got out.

 

no, I am saying what you said, if we caused them to fall then can't say it was their system... if they fell on their own, then can blame it on their system

.

 

actually it's used by all three religions as they all three believe that God is also their God and those words are their Gods words

 

Good post.

When Vietnam was divided along the 17th parallel in 1954, there was a period of armistice where people were given a choice,, North or South. As I've mentioned, at least 600,000 Catholics moved into South Vietnam, along with 20,000 Viet Minh who were for the most part undetected and would join their National Liberation Front comrades.

A lot of land was taken from non-Catholic farmers and given to Catholics, many who weren't even South Vietnamese ancestrally. The South Vietnamese peasants didn't really care who was in power. They just wanted to work their land and feed their families. It's just the South Vietnamese government was the lesser of two evils.

Ho Chi Minh returned land once belonging to the French and gave it back to the ancestral owners (North Vietnamese peasants). The only problem was the land was so severely subdivided, the plots so small, they could hardly sustain a family.

Ho Chi Minh was a nasty POS, so were the men (and women) he surrounded himself with. Diem and later Thieu and Ky were no better.

 

Good post likewise. The partisanship stupidity that has infected this topic is disappointing. I think it a FACT that Ho always wanted an independent Vietnam. Look at who said "No". The Chinese. The French. The Japs. Then the Chinese again. Then the French again. Then us. WTF for folks ?

 

Ho Chi Minh wanted nothing more than a free, united Vietnam. Had he been other than communist he would have succeeded mostly peacefully.

The west's intervention only prolonged the reunification and resulted in millions of deaths.

 

Damn it. That is a stupid question. You swallowed the whole thing that the revisionist told you. We did not go to war to remove Saddam. We went to war because they had the OIL. No oil and the neo-cons would not have cared.

 

I do not mind being called a liberal, but for your statement to be a fact you have to prove it.

I am for the death penalty, I am for freedom from government oversight, so therefore I am pro abortion and pro euthanasia and I am for a strong military and border security.

Now, I know some of the more conservative members of the forum will say, hey wait a minute pro abortion, come on that is a liberal political platform, well no it is not.

That issue is a catholic political platform, it is a Jewish political platform, and it is a Muslim political platfrm which the republicans can differentiate themsleves from their opponents with.

The republicans say they do not want government interfering with an individuals life, well then that means that repubplicans do not want governments telling my girlfriend or wife to not have an abortion, and whether I get to choose if I can kill myself due to a terminal disease or whether someone can help me without fearing a prison sentence.

Most of the republicans platform is bulldust anyway so they only have these social differences they can hang on to to get elected.

But the democrats are just as bad. They could fix social security and medicaid, but they choose not to so they can have issues to defeat the republicans with during a election campaign.

As I said I do not mind being called a liberal but for everyone to believe it you will need to prove that to me.

 

Calling an Australian a liberal is just plain silly, unless he/she supports the Liberal Party of Australia.

 

Shouldn't any market failures be rightfully blamed on government under any form of communism.

 

No, you are part of the "not me!" group.

 

Even Robert McNamara admitted in his doco 'The Fog of War' that going into Vietnam was a mistake.

 

The not me group. I must of missed that night of political catagory research at my local liberal education facility.

So what is the not me group?

 

The bay of Tonkin incident actually did not occur,
so let's do business as usual, global trading of course.
Let's generate more jobs.

 

um no.... Thats false. Maybe you should go to church, or read the old and the new testament.

 

It is not false. You can argue that Islam does not use it that much but they do use the characters in the old testament. The religious right gets all of its "weapons" from the old testament.

Maybe you should go to church for the first time.

 

Muslims do not believe Jesus is gods son.
Jews do not believe Jesus is gods son.

both believe, those who do not believe as they do, are less than human.

 

Interesting and rather definitive statement. Untrue, of course, but interesting nonetheless.

 

nope, its all true.

Jews believe they are gods chosen people, and Christians are something less....

Muslims will force you to convert or die.

 

That was a great documentary. I had way more respect for Mac after seeing that, and a better understanding of how that all happened.

As for the OP...Ho liked the US untill they sided with criminal regime after criminal regime in the south, and only then was he forced to turn to Russia. And of course...because China wasn't too fond of Ho either.

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You've highjacked your own thread off topic BVWC. You always get mad at me when I do that.

 

None of the Jews or Muslims I've known considered me less than human.

 

If you expect adults to believe that the ruling class would in any way put its own precious brats into danger, you're preaching to the wrong audience. Try some pre-teen forum.

 

Not that we belonged there anyway, but ignoring that fact, we should have invaded North Vietnam, like MacArthur would have. We Marines in I Corps were smack dab up against the DMZ and the enemy swarmed across continuously. We felt very depressed and helpless, like bowling pins.

Fighter by Day,
Lover by Night,
Drunkard by Choice,
Marine by Mistake

 

Our Chickenhawk-in-Chief couldn't understand why Iraqis might want to fight for their country.