Pope Francis Says Weapons Manufacturers Shouldn’t Call Themselves Christians

For Catholics the various popes are like the weather. When the weather is good you laugh and smile and are productive and when the weather is bad you grumble and grump . . . and are productive anyway; except perhaps not proactive in your productivity. You wait to be asked or even browbeaten before you donate extra money or hours of your own time. That's becoming the general Catholic populace reaction where this pope is concerned -- they are treating him as if his reign were a lengthy stretch of particularly pernicious weather. The cardinals will be taking note of the results by way of less than overflowing coffers and a consistent and 'mysterious' slacking of donated hours . . . and then will NOT put another worthless socialist/Marxist into the office.

As almost always happens whenever the radical leftists get into a major office they immediately defecate on everything of real value in sight and tick off people of bedrock values and common sense everywhere. Then as a result that particular door of opportunity gets slammed in their face for the next one or two generations to follow.

 

Yeah...we know how you people are being mistreated. Watch how the upper 1% were being adjusted back to something reasonable at the end of Bill Clinton's two terms. Then.....check where they went after George W. Bush cut taxes for them in 2001 and 2003:

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You people never have caught on to the fact that none of you would have (*)(*)(*)(*) if not for those doing the work. Drink your vodka martinis in your fancy apartments, ride around in expensive automobiles, yachts, jets etc. and never realize that working men and women keep the economy alive. If you're gonna give tax cuts you should give them to the people who actually finally pick up the tab. Count everything....sales tax, state income tax, payroll taxes, property tax, federal excise tax, automobile registration, fishing license, fees on everything from a phone bill to heating and cooling one's home. Percentage wise an ordinary citizen in this country is already picking up the tab. The ****** Republicans want an IRS flat tax and if they get that working people will be picking up the tab for nearly everything.

A Lord/Serf Society.......that's what you really are heading for........whether you want it or not.

The $0.40 per gallon gasoline tax means nothing to a rich man but a poor man has to get to work. All of you can kiss my big orange volunteer, east TN coon dawg ass.

 

The Westboro Baptist Church does not have 1.2B followers.

 

Popes are only infallible under a particular set of circumstances. This is not one of them.

 

I understand how you and the Pope want to demonize guns and the people who make them. Got it!

I also understand the deeply rooted Marxist leanings that you both preach. If you can't profit from your own labor---then you support communism.

Do you think a tractor company should make a profit? Should the tractor company workers make a profit from their work? What if the tractors are used to grow crops to feed armies that kill people? Since bread is just as important as bullets in war----I see no difference between the evil of tractors and guns.

Providing ANY resoures to the military-industrial complex of any nation MUST therefore be an "unChristian" endeavor.

But of course of utter hyprocrisy of the whole affair is the Pope saying one is unChristian to make guns (for profit)---then have a small army of people protecting you with the very same guns made the unholy, profiteering gun companies.

If you buy into the rubbish the Pope is spewing, then your interpretation of reality is very distorted.

 

These mysterious 'You People' being nattered on about in a wild example of off-topic deflection would be Obama's Wall Street crowd and all of the 1%er class of millionaires and billionaires club members with their donations/bribes to the Dem Party?

 

I find it funny how most of the conservatives on this board are one trick ponies. The only argument you seem to have against everything is that it is Marxist or I am Marxist or the Pope is Marxist. It is clear from the multitude of situations, people and ideas that you stick this label on that you have no clue as to its meaning. Therefore your arguments are meaningless.

 

If the pope has nothing to gain from the use of these weapons, why are they in use?

 

Did you not say yourself that it is bad to have a gun company that makes guns for profit and also it is bad to invest in them?

You have painted yourself into a corner, and are trying to escape. So Marxism aside, you need to clarify your stance on the
"evils" of gunmaking.

Is there a good gun company, or are they all bad?

Are there any "good" guns or all they all bad?

If you say there are bad gun companies, are any of the workers there bad (unless they are slave laborers)---or just the owners, management and investors?

 

The ownership of weapons is not what the Pope was decrying. He was decrying the profiteering from their manufacture and sale.

 

I did not say it was bad I said it was unchristian. If you considered that bad then that is your interpretation. What find hypocritical are these Christian groups who find it so easy to tell me what to and not to wear, watch and buy and also tell me how evil certain groups are for the institution they support when they support the sale and manufacture of weapons. Like one of the largest "Christian" investment groups who are so willing to tell people where and where not to put their money. The most glaring thing on missing on this list is weapons. They fear companies that give benefits to gay partners but invest invest in companies selling devices that are solely designed to kill.

http://www.timothyplan.com/download/HallofShame.pdf

As to your Marxist remarks it is again apparent you either have no clue what Marxism is or you are just using it as a bait word.

 

You did not answer my question. Doesn't the pope have something to gain from the use of these weapons? If not why are they in use?

 

Not allowing homosexuals to marry and selling firearms are not contradictory things.

 

Some one should ask the pope why it was that Jesus didn't tell the disciples to get rid of those two sowrds they had among them. In fact. rather than tell him to get rid of the swords he told then that should be enough. He should also ask the pope why neither Jesus nor Peter acting in his stead didn't tell those Roman Centurions they had to give up their commissions in order to be Christians. One should recall that when one hears such pronouncements out of the Vatican that it is also an authoritarian organization with a lengthy history of human rights abuses.

 

Oh Ok...I never said they were contradictory. What is contradictory is that many, many, Christians keep preaching to everyone their superior morality when most have no problem supporting and profiting from arms manufacture. That is the hypocrisy and duplicity that the Pope is pointing out.

 

Someone should ask what past human rights abuses of the Catholic Church have to do with the specific Pope?

Someone should ask have you read this thread as the sword canard has already been responded to?

Someone should ask if your theological study can match the Popes and what makes you think your opinion on theological matters supercede his?

 

I did not answer the question because it not on-topic. That being said this Pope has not had any occasion to use the weapons that are under control of his guards so no he has not to date benefitted from them. Any hypothetical assumptions are your part on what may happen in the future is not a valid debate point.

 

It is on topic. You said the pope was against people who profit from the manufacture of weapons.

Does the pope stand to gain from the use of the weapons, and if not, why are they in use?

 

The Pope uses those guns everyday. They deter those who may do him harm. Those are his armed guards, just as John Gotti had. You don't have to have a gun on your hip when you can hire someone elses hip to carry it for you.

 

How does manufacture and sale equate to use? Also your question is a hypothetical. To date the Pope has NOT benefited from the use of weapons. Anything else is your speculation.

 

You are of course assuming facts not in evidence. Do you have proof that the Swiss Guard has deterred any attack on Pope Francis?

 

If they provide no benefit, why are they in use?

The Swiss guard maintains weapons, practices with weapons, and carries weapons on duty. Is the pope in the habit of wasting money that could be better used on the poor by spending it on things that provide no benefit?

 

That is a question for the Holy See. As point for debate though it is a non-starter unless you can effectively prove some specific benefit obtained by the armed guards. Not a hypothetical situation that may arise in the future or your interpretation of a benefit. If the Pope states or has stated some benefit of having the Swiss Guard then we can debate that. If the Swiss Guard has provided some actual deterrent to an actual attack then we can debate that benefit. Everything else is speculation and assumption.

 

Your position is that you cannot determine why the pope maintains a military guard?

Perhaps you should write the pope for guidance.

I on the other hand do not need to equivocate. The pope maintains a military guard as a means of defense against those who would use violence against the church. The benefit of the guard and the weapons they use is not just tantamount to the prevention of an eminent attack, but in preparation for such in the absence of one.

 

Like the Pope, you speak with a forked tounge. You and the Pope can't get away from your duplicity. When the Pope says two directly contradicitory things in the same speech, no honest, thinking person would seperate the statements.

You and the Pope can't say that those who profit from making weapons can't be real Christians, while then demanding that even more powerful weapons were not used on civilian targets to suit his fancy. Even worse is the utter hypocrisy of anti-gun nuts like Francis who have their very own highly trained mercenary army armed with all kinds of fully-automatic weapons. It does not matter one hoot if the Pope was charge when the guns were purchaced or not. The Pope profits from the protection of the very same guns manufactured by un-Christian capitalists.

If you don't have a clue what the word "profit" means, then look it up.

So you have already steadfastly agreed with the Pope that gun and weapon company owners can not make a profit on their arms if they want to be "Christians." So that means these company owners and investors should not make even a nickel in pay. Should they live in tarpaper shacks and get welfare and food stamps---while the Pope lives in majesty in the Vatican City under the protection of the guns they produce?

Your comments grow more absurd by the minute.

Speaking of other people who want the weapons industry collectivized:

Marxism is an revolutionary movement developed by the German scholar and activist Karl Marx and his collaborator Friedrich Engels. Marx's approach is indicated by the opening line of the Communist Manifesto (184: “The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles”. Marx believed that capitalism, like previous socioeconomic systems, would produce internal tensions which would lead to its destruction. Just as capitalism replaced feudalism, capitalism itself will be displaced by communism, a classless society which would emerge after a transitional period in which the state would be nothing else but the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat. Marxist are said to await "the revolution" with a religious fervor reminiscent of Christians awaiting the Rapture.

Quotes from Lenin
“The way to crush the middle class is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.”
"The best revolutionary is youth devoid of morals."
"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
"The goal of socialism is communism."
"There are no morals in politics there is only expedience. A scoundrel may be of use to us just because he is a scoundrel."
"Give us the child for 8 years and it will be a Bolshevik forever." (see Public school values and Professor values)

http://www.conservapedia.com/Marxism