‘Conspiracy theorists’ sane, government dupes crazy and hostile

Discussion in '9/11' started by Kokomojojo, Nov 25, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Perilica grad Ameriku

    Perilica grad Ameriku Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Messages:
    662
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Of course it's true. And we're at step one of proving that.

    We're so looking forward for you to show us your calculation of the force of the falling upper section.

    Make Isasc Newton proud!!! Go for it.
     
  2. Perilica grad Ameriku

    Perilica grad Ameriku Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Messages:
    662
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Snicker. Guffaw. Heat does not strengthen steel.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Of course they weren't. Tell me Bro. How long can you stand on one leg?
     
  3. Perilica grad Ameriku

    Perilica grad Ameriku Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Messages:
    662
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Then its a good thing that none of the WTC towers experienced "global symmetrical failure."

    Hey... don't you have an elementary physics problem to do?

    No. It can't... but we'll cover that later.

    We're waiting for you to do some math.
     
  4. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Messages:
    9,012
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm not talking about building 7...it collapsed due to structural damage and fires.

    And don't quote sunder to me,you are just cherry picking what he said to suit your agenda.
     
  5. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
    Messages:
    14,789
    Likes Received:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    83


    Wait.... certainly you are not actually running away from a freshman year physics problem? But I thought you were all up on Newton's Laws of Motion? Have you been misleading us all along? This is not a difficult physics problem, and rather than doing as you usually do (i.e. wave your hands and make bold ambiguous assertions about physics) it is an opportunity for us to get into the real detail and mathematically demonstrate an actual understanding of what went on.

    Come on Mr. Physics genius... show us you're not a complete phoney.

    Oh come on, trying to duck out of explaining the cause with your ill framed non applicable question?

    The problem is and remains as stated.

    You first need to explain how the impossible (that you admitted) took place and no physics is required to do so in my estimation.

    You need to properly frame the problem and explain how all load bearing columns suffered global symmetrical failure within milliseconds of each other from office fires.


    How did this feat of magic take place. Once you properly respond and sufficiently answer that question you will see that yours is completely irellavant and itself a red herring.

    I already had lunch so save your red herrings for someone else.


    edited remaining post do to poster doing an end run around the base issue.

    if its not timed within milliseconds it tips over

    [​IMG]

    So you agree the top came crashing down, since it did not tip over we can correctly conclude the load bearing columns were removed within milliseconds of each other.


    Explain how all load bearing columns suffered global symmetrical failure within milliseconds of each other from office fires across a 200 x 200 ft building.
     
  6. Perilica grad Ameriku

    Perilica grad Ameriku Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Messages:
    662
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Nope. I promise to answer it in full. But first you have to solve the simple physics problem already sitting in your inbox.

    The math is simple, the equation only has three variables, and there is nothing more complicated in the mathematics than taking a square root.

    I know you can do it because you claim to understand Newton's laws better than anyone else on this forum.

    You go, son. We're all rooting for you!!
     
  7. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Messages:
    9,012
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Does koko think hardening steel through tempering 'strengthens' it?..
     
  8. Perilica grad Ameriku

    Perilica grad Ameriku Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Messages:
    662
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm pretty sure that's exactly the source of his silly misunderstanding. He doesn't seem to realize that it's the chemical changes to steel (most commonly the addition of carbon) that makes steel stringer through tempering... not the heat.
     
  9. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
    Messages:
    14,789
    Likes Received:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    83
    but thats has been proven to be incorrect and NISTs data has been proven to be deceptive and criminally fraudulent.

    as you can see from nists own model its impossible for it to fall the way we saw it fall when demolition is not part of the equation. Even though NIST refuses to give us the data which is they did would show the fudged the (*)(*)(*)(*) out of it and had more than one failure point.

    Its time for a foia enforcement and criminals to serve time.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
    Messages:
    14,789
    Likes Received:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    83
    why dont you ask koko and find out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    now we have the self proclaimed engineer who doesnt know too much about steel either. Why am I not surprised?
     
  11. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Messages:
    9,012
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    0
    And oft times it's only the surface of the steel that's changed,the interior retains it's elasticity

    Don't want it to be too brittle
     
  12. Perilica grad Ameriku

    Perilica grad Ameriku Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Messages:
    662
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Koko has now dodged his simple physics problem in 11 subsequent posts.
     
  13. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Messages:
    9,012
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    0
    He's good at that..He's an expert on every subject.

    Just ask him about the field flight 93 crashed into...
     
  14. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
    Messages:
    14,789
    Likes Received:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    83
    your response has nothing to do with what I was referring to.
     
  15. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
    Messages:
    14,789
    Likes Received:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    83
    far more educated and experienced than the combined education and experience of my opponents.
     
  16. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
    Messages:
    14,789
    Likes Received:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Pergad whatever accuses me of dodging his strawman problem that had nothing to do with my position while he continues dodging the central issue I have posited (not strawman) in the same subsequent posts that has EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE CENTRAL ISSUE


    Come on Mr. Physics genius... show us you're not a complete phoney.

    Oh come on, trying to duck out of explaining the cause with your ill framed non applicable question?

    The problem is and remains as stated.

    You first need to explain how the impossible (that you admitted) took place and no physics is required to do so in my estimation.

    You need to properly frame the problem and explain how all load bearing columns suffered global symmetrical failure within milliseconds of each other from random office fires.


    How did this feat of magic take place. Once you properly respond and sufficiently answer that question you will see that yours is completely irellavant and itself a red herring.

    I already had lunch so save your red herrings for someone else.


    edited remaining post due to posters attempt to do an end run around the base issue.

    if its not timed within milliseconds AND global it tips over

    [​IMG]

    So you have already agreed that the top came crashing down, since the WTC did not tip over we can correctly conclude the load bearing columns were removed within milliseconds of each other.


    Explain how all load bearing columns suffered global symmetrical failure within milliseconds of each other from random office fires across a 200 x 200 ft building.

    Its the ONLY way to get any structure to collapse globally straight down,

    as can be seen buildings that are NOT symmetrically globally demolished simply tip over.


    [​IMG]
     
  17. Perilica grad Ameriku

    Perilica grad Ameriku Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Messages:
    662
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Koko has now dodged his simple physics problem in 14 subsequent posts.

    None of his fellow physics giants have offered to lend him a hand either.
     
  18. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
    Messages:
    14,789
    Likes Received:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Dont anyone answer his strawman question till he responds to the issues please.

    Perilica has now dodged

    "Explaining how all load bearing columns suffered global symmetrical failure within milliseconds of each other from random office fires across a 200 x 200 ft building.
    "

    in 14 subsequent posts.


    [video=youtube;l7iCDr-sPBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7iCDr-sPBE[/video]


    LOL
     
  19. Perilica grad Ameriku

    Perilica grad Ameriku Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    Messages:
    662
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    How can a question be a "straw man?" Do you not know what a "straw man" is either? My god, Koko. Everytime we turn around we discover something else about which you are blissfully ignorant. You are a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) prodigy of nature.

    Now, Koko has dodged his simple physics problem in 15 subsequent posts. He desperately wants to change the subject, and I already promised I'd be happy to do so once he solved the simple problem that I posed him first. As we all have seen, it was entirely beyond him. The guy who pretends a preternatural understanding of Newtonian physics has proven that he cannot solve the simplest problem relative to actually understanding what happened at the WTC on 9/11.

    The elephant hath labored mightily and delivered unto us a mouse.

    So, before moving on, let's solve the problem for him.

    The equation for calculating the dynamic force of a falling mass is this:

    |F[SUB]dynamic[/SUB]|=SQRT(2Kmgh)

    Where K is the spring constant of the remaining WTC structure measured in newtons per meter, m is mass of the falling upper section of the WTC measured in kilograms, g is the acceleration due to gravity measured in meters per second per second, and h is the height of the drop measured in meters.

    We know from the building design specifications that K = 71X10[SUP]9[/SUP] nt/m, that m = 58X10[SUP]6[/SUP] kg, h = 3.8 m (the distince between one floor and the next), and g = 9.8 m/s[SUP]2[/SUP]. So... plugging and chugging:

    |F[SUB]dynamic[/SUB]|=SQRT(2Kmgh) = SQRT(2 X 71X10[SUP]9[/SUP] X 58X10[SUP]6[/SUP] X 9.8 X 3.8 ) = 17.2 billion newtons.

    Now... we know that the static force of the upper floors at rest (i.e. the base design load) was only 570 million newtons. This means that the dynamic force was roughly 31 times larger than the static force. Given a standard design safety margin of 3 to 5 times the base design load, the impact was between 6 and ten times greater than the greatest capacity of the first floor it encountered to resist without immediately disintegrating.

    Now... that's not to say there was no resistance at all. We can use the conservation of momentum to calculate the deceleration experienced by the falling mass on contact with the 95th floor and before it completely failed and disintegrated. I had intended this to be part two of our little physics primer here, but as we have seen, Koko doesn't have the math skills to go there. I'm happy to provide the calculation if anybody is interested, but for the sake of time they would have been roughly 31 gs for the first impact, and lasted for just over two milliseconds. Since the upper section would have been traveling at 8.63 m/sec (19.3 mph) when it hit the 95th floor, the effect of the two milliseconds of 31 g decelerations would have slowed the fall from 19.3 to just about 18 miles per hour.

    Note also that this is an inelastic, not an elastic collision, so at this point the mass of the 95th floor joins that of the upper 14 floors in their path downward.

    Now remember. The upper section started at zero miles per hour and accelerated to 19.3 miles per hour in the first 3.8 meters of drop. It then experienced a 2 millisecond 31 g deceleration to 18 miles an hour, but was then accelerating downward again in free fall for another 3.8 meters before it hit the 94th floor. By the time it reached that next floor, it would be traveling 11.8 m/sec, or about 26.4 miles per hour.

    In this second inelastic collision, the now-62-million-kg mass of the upper section impacts the 94th floor. The dynamic force is still about 30 times the static load, again causing the columns and supports to fail. The resistance of these horizontal floor supports again slows down the falling mass, from about 26 down to about 25 miles per hour, again conserving momentum.

    But notice what has happened two floors in a row:

    The resistance of the lower section of the WTC is unable to slow the still accelerating upper section in any significant way. It is certainly slowing the fall down so that it is considerably slower than free fall, but it cannot stop the collapse. I am happy to do the subsequent calculations for you as well for each additional floor, but we all see the pattern, and the answer is always the same. At each new floor the speed of the falling mass is higher, the mass of the falling material is greater, the dynamic force is larger, and nothing in the way is capable of halting the collapse.

    So... having also demonstrated the difference between a genuine engineering analysis and silly videos of cardboard boxes, we're ready to move on. I will now commence to do (again) what Koko has proven he is incapable of doing. Directly answer a question while demonstrating actual understanding of the physics and engineering involved.

    Here is his challenge:

    Now... to do this right, we will have to use more than one post. Why you ask? Because I do not trust Koko to not move the goalposts as soon as it starts looking bad for him. So the demonstration will precede in a stepwise manner, and I will not move to each subsequent step until I have Koko's full and explicit understanding and acknowledgment of each prior step.

    We must begin by making sure we agree on what we are even talking about. So first, I need Koko to answer a couple of completely non threatening but important questions.

    Question One: Do you understand what we mean when we call the WTC Towers a "tube within a tube" design, and that the design was completely different from a standard steel lattice building?

    Specifically: Do you agree that the WTC Towers were designed with two sets of load bearing columns: a specially reinforced perimeter wall to resist all lateral loading and some of the gravity loading, and a heavily reinforced central core to resist the bulk of the gravity loading?

    Question Two: Do you understand what a "hat truss" is, what its primary function is, and how the floors contributed to the WTC design?

    Specifically: Do you agree that the hat truss transmitted lateral forces and gravity loads between the load bearing structures of the perimeter and the core?

    If you agree with both those details, answer that you do and we will proceed to the next step in the demonstration.
     
  20. Mike12

    Mike12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,003
    Likes Received:
    852
    Trophy Points:
    113
    lol, koko is totally outclassed here and most likely cannot even comprehend what you are talking about. This is the problem with conspiracy theorists, they are amateurs who claim they know physics but once in a while, they run into a real tiger of physics and are mawled. There is a good reason why 'experts' on their side haven't been able to convince the scientific community. I'm waiting for the day they submit all their proof to MIT and have them put a an approval stamp on it; their papers would end up in the trash can.
     
  21. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Messages:
    9,012
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Is koko ignoring the question,and trying to turn it back onto YOU, again?

    He's known for doing that
     
  22. Hannibal

    Hannibal New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    10,624
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not to derail (and kudos to Perilica grad Ameriku for an awesome, fact filled post) but someone posted a list of investigations already done regarding the events of 9/11/01 and I cannot locate it. Can someone PM me a link, please?

    I now return you to the thread, already in progress.
     
  23. Brother Jonathan

    Brother Jonathan Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,610
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ^5

    "Send me a link to know what to say guys." That's the way I read this post by Hannibal.
     
  24. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
    Messages:
    14,789
    Likes Received:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    83
    yeh we can have eagersnuts come out with more "plausible" garbage LOL

    - - - Updated - - -

    no I dont follow in your footsteps

    - - - Updated - - -

    Nope its a zero post and does not address the issue I laid out.
     
  25. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
    Messages:
    14,789
    Likes Received:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    83
    the first thing you need to do is make sure you address the issue at hand that koko HAS NEVER MOVED ANY GOAL POST, YOU HAVE. A strawman is a question you made up to move the goal posts. This is not real difficult. Then again....

    Dont anyone answer his strawman question till he responds to the issues please.

    Perilica has now dodged

    "Explaining how all load bearing columns suffered global symmetrical failure within milliseconds of each other from random office fires across a 200 x 200 ft building.
    "

    in 15 subsequent posts.


    LOL


    NOTHING you have said gets us any closer to your answering or explaining how this magical global symmetrical failure occurred in 3 WTC buildings. Hint the hat has very little to do with it.


    15 posts and counting

    [​IMG]

    not getting any younger here son
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page