Abortion is a Homicide

Those of you who disagree, I am interested in your LEGAL explanation of why it isn't a homicide. We have seen one poster here try to claim that a zygote is not the same entity as the adult he/she grows into, and that is clearly nonsense, but legally speaking, can you explain how an abortion is not a homicide, when fetal homicide laws and the federal Unborn Victims of Violence Act consider the killing of the fetus by anyone, other than the mother, a homicide?

This is my rationale of why an abortion is a homicide:

Definition of homicide:

http://definitions.uslegal.com/h/homicide/

“Homicide is the killing of a human being due to the act or failure to act of another. Criminal homicides include murder and manslaughter. Non-criminal homicides include killing in self-defense, a misadventure like a hunting accident or automobile wreck without a violation of law like reckless driving, or legal (government) execution. Suicide is a homicide, but is rarely prosecuted. Assisting or attempting suicide can be a crime.”

Definition of human being:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/human+being

“Human Being
n.
A human.
human being
a member of any of the races of Homo sapiens; person; man, woman, or child”

Definition of Child:

“Child
Definition
child
[ child ]
chil•dren Plural
NOUN
1.
young human being: a young human being between birth and puberty
2.
human offspring: a son or daughter of human parents
3.
somebody not yet of age: somebody under a legally specified age who is considered not to be legally responsible for his or her actions
4.
baby: a baby or infant
5.
unborn baby: a baby that has not yet been born
6.
immature adult: an adult who is regarded as behaving in a childish or inappropriately childlike way
7.
product or result: somebody or something considered to be either produced or strongly influenced by a particular environment, period, or historical figure
"a child of nature"
"a child of the 1960s"
8.
descendant or member of people: a descendant of somebody, or a member of a people with a common ancestor or geographic origin ( often used in the plural )
"children of Abraham"
[ Old English cild ]
with child pregnant (archaic or literary)

Legal support:

FEDERAL
The Unborn Victims of Violence Act

http://www.nrlc.org/Unborn_Victims/keypointsuvva.html

“The law covers the "child in utero," defined as "a member of the species homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb."

State Fetal Homicide Laws:

http://www.ncsl.org/IssuesResearch/Health/FetalHomicideLaws/tabid/14386/Default.aspx

Alabama:

Ala. Code § 13A-6-1 (2006) defines person for the purpose of criminal homicide or assaults. The law defines person to include an unborn child in utero at any stage of development, regardless of viability and specifies that nothing in this act shall make it a crime to perform or obtain an abortion that is otherwise legal.

Ohio:

Ohio Rev. Code Ann. § 2903.01 et seq. (2002) define aggravated murder, murder, voluntary manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, negligent homicide, aggravated vehicular homicide, aggravated vehicular assault, felonious assault, aggravated assault, assault and negligent assault. The law applies to a person, which includes an "unborn member of the species Homo sapiens, who is or was carried in the womb of another."

Texas:

Tex. Penal Code Ann. § 1.07 relates to the death of or injury to an unborn child and provides penalties. The law defines an individual as a human being who is alive, including an unborn child at every stage of gestation from fertilization until birth.

Kentucky:

Ky. Rev. Stat. § 507A.010 et seq. (2004) define "unborn child" as a member of the species homo sapiens in utero from conception onward, without regard to age, health or condition of dependency. The laws define fetal homicide in the first, second, third, and fourth degrees.
And there are more.


If the killing of a “child in utero” is a homicide when he/she is killed by someone other than his/her mother, then reason and logic tells us, by the terms of the definition of the word homicide, that the mother killing the child is also a homicide as the definition of homicide is not situational.[/QUOTE]

 

http://www.bpnews.net/printerfriendly.asp?ID=202

http://www.wbaltv.com/r/944797/detail.html

http://archive.columbiatribune.com/2007/Sep/20070927News017.asp

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2644555/posts

http://www.krem.com/home/Judge-refuses-to-drop-murder-charge-for-Parks-unborn-baby-89461867.html




hmm, even liberal California agrees with you

I simply shake my head in diusgust when I see posters here try and justify killing babies. It sickens me to no end. Those same posters are here because their own mommies didn't abort them but they want other mommies to abort babies.

 

IMO as I am not a lawyer. If it is not a planned pregnancy then it is not homicide. A fetus mirrors a parasite until it is separated from the mother.

 

Read the links above, they prove your assertion wrong.

 

my 2nd child wasn't planned

would you care to call her cell phone and explain that she was nothing more than a parasite for 9 months?

 

There are misguided liberals, and misguided conservatives.

It is not "homicide" to have an abortion in the early stages of pregnancy. The laws of the land clearly state this.

A common language dictionary definition and showing that in colloquial language a person stating that a woman "with child" means that she is pregnant does not support the claim that an actual child resides in a pregnant woman at every stage of pregnancy.

Both of the arguments made for Homocide are disingenuous and not valid for the reasons above.

 

You're probably right but on the same rationale, killing in self-defence and legal execution are homicide too. What was your purpose in highlighting the technical definition?

 

"Everyone is wrong but me. "

Here we go again, the laws above clearly prove you wrong!!!
Show me specifically where the laws of the land claim an abortion is not a homicide.

Nothing of any substance here, and certainly no support for your notions.

 

The law says you're wrong; as abortion is legal.

 

Please read a thread before replying to it.

“Homicide is the killing of a human being due to the act or failure to act of another. Criminal homicides include murder and manslaughter. Non-criminal homicides include killing in self-defense, a misadventure like a hunting accident or automobile wreck without a violation of law like reckless driving, or legal (government) execution. Suicide is a homicide, but is rarely prosecuted. Assisting or attempting suicide can be a crime.”


Obviously being illegal is not a trait of a homicide.

 

But abortion is legal. So you're wrong. How can something legal be illegal?

 

I agree that abortion is legal homicide and I think it should remain so.

What are the practicalities of enforcing this law?

Criminal negligence if the women acts in a way that causes her to have a misscarriage? Or child abuse if for instance, the woman smokes during pregnancy and this results in deformation in the child?

What is the punishment going to be for this homicide? 10 years? Life? Death?

Who are you going to punish? The mother, the doctor, both?

Won't this just create a black market for RU486?

The morning after pill is technically homicide as well, that will have to be banned. That will also probably create a black market, unregulated, and without support for the woman.

I don't think abortion is a good thing at all, I don't think there should be any abortions. But I don't think criminalisation is the answer. Education about safe sex should be the priority.

 

that is a good point

those who support abortion and killing of babies need not fear the law

what is interesting is that prosecutors will charge people with murder of the unborn child and treat such as an individual yet abortion does not give the same consideration.

So, the the claim of the OP that abortion is homicide he is correct. That cannot be denied because it is the willful execution of life. But, you sway the discussion to whether or not is illegal which is not the assertion of the OP.

 

Honestly, I believe this is done because they want to give the accused more jail time for his/her crimes.

I do agree that abortion laws and fetal homicide laws conflict and that fetal homicide laws need to be thrown out so as to maintain some consistency in the law.

 

My "legal arguments" would be along the same lines as yours. I would point to the many states that don't have "fetal homicide" laws such as New Mexico and New York. I may also point to the states where the fetal homicide laws distinctly separate "fetus" and "human being" in their criminal code such as California and Tennessee.

http://www.ncsl.org/IssuesResearch/Health/FetalHomicideLaws/tabid/14386/Default.aspx

As to the first part of the OP, the string of definitions, I believe that it breaks down in the definition of a child. For me an "unborn baby" is a fetus that's relatively late in the gestation process.

You may have convinced yourself and you may convince some others that abortion is homicide. What's the point? Homicide doesn't imply either illegality or immorality. I suppose homicide does imply human being, but neither does that imply either illegality or immorality.

 

So, by the definitions you provide, abortion is a non-criminal homicide. That works for me.

I must point out that regardless of how something is defined in a given Law Dictionary, many state statutes define the terms used within the statutes differently.

Typically, state statutes define a "person" as a human who is "born alive". There's no doubt that a fetus is "human" but in most states, they're not a legal "person" until they are born alive.

 

Because Liberals tend to reject the simplistic definition. And you are correct -- killing in self-defense is homicide.

Maybe if you read the OP you would know that a homicide is not necessarily an unlawful act.

 

I shake my head in bewilderment that so many people don't see a difference between a "fetus" and a "baby".

 

You do know what "fetus" means, right?

 

I do. A fetus isn't a "baby".

 

"Fetus" literally translates to "a very young one." Guess what "one" means in this context.

 

I would shake my head in bewilderment that so many people claim the difference is anything but semantical, if I didn't know very well why they do so.

 

fe·tus (fts)
n. pl. fe·tus·es
1. The unborn young of a viviparous vertebrate having a basic structural resemblance to the adult animal.
2. In humans, the unborn young from the end of the eighth week after conception to the moment of birth.

The American Heritage® Medical Dictionary Copyright © 2007, 2004 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

 

Yes... my the fact that I posted does not conflict with that. What is your point?

 

To point out how inconsistent abortion is with all other homicides from a legal standpoint. I see you mention "self defense" in your post. Legally that means "in imminent danger of serious harm or death" in order to justify a homicide. There is no such requirement for abortion, like there is for any other homicide.