Once the Romans occupied the country. Then the Crusaders came. Then the British. They are all gone because they were constantly exposed to resistance from the residents. Zionists have been trying since 1948. But they too are constantly being fought and will soon disappear. Only the Palestinian people stand their ground for centuries, even if many of them have been expelled or killed.
You claim that an unnamed population lived as a majority on the territory that is now Israel. The history I know says this is not accurate, but I'm willing to hear your side. What population was that, where did they come from, when did they arrive in Palestine, what where their relationships with the neighboring regions, what where the boundaries of their territory? How did they call their territory? The Ottoman Empire and Egypt fought bitter wars over Palestine. Is that unnamed population mentioned in any of the Ottoman or Egyptian documents of the time?
After the Romans created a diaspora for Jews there were a number of peoples that occupied what is now Israel. The important thing is that people other than Jewish people were living in what is now Israel. They thought their homes were their own and were displaced. Again, how would you feel if this happened to you? But having said that it is now more than 70 years ago and it’s a very small parcel of land and Israel has nukes so they’re not going anywhere so there’s not much sense in griping about that unfairness any more.
A non-Jewish Palestinian people? Let's see. When was the Palestinian people born, and where? What's the first known mention of the Palestinian people in history? What are their founding myths? Can you name some past Palestinian personalities, like great leaders, poets, scholars? What kind of relations did they have with their neighbors? Are there notable monuments or buildings built by Palestinians? What was their capital city?
@Pisa These are non sequiturs. I’ve asked you how you would feel if you were ejected from your property by people who say they are God’s chosen people and were there 2000 years ago. I would personally be pissed off!
Seriously? On a topic about the Holocaust you ask how would we feel if this has happened to us? Iraqi Jews have lived on the territory of what is now Iraq for 2500 years uninterruptedly, long before Arabs. Are Iraqi Jews a separate Iraqi Jewish nation? Do Iraqi Jews have the right to demand Iraq as their country? They have been massacred and the survivors forced to flee Iraq. Yes, it has happened to us. Of course people other than Jews lived in Palestine, but they were never a nation, nor a stable indigenous population. They were mostly nomadic Bedouins in search of pastures, immigrants from all over the Arab world who came and often fled due to Bedouin attacks on their farms, tenants of foreign landlords like the Soursouk family in Lebanon (who later sold their lands to Jews, leading to displacement of the tenants, but unlike the prevalent narrative, those tenants received compensation - see the Peel Commission Report), Druses, some Iranian ethnic group in the Galilee known as violent and intolerant toward Arabs, arabized Christian Arameans, and Samaritans. There were a few Muslim Gypsies as well, they still live in some places like Jerusalem and Taiybe. There's a rich literature about Palestine in the 19th century. There's nothing in all those books, written by very different people who traveled through Palestine, about a non-Jewish nation living in Palestine. They all describe Palestine as desolated, almost empty, prone to frequent Bedouin attacks. The Palestinians are the only nation in history artificially created to annihilate another people.
I’m asking only you how you would feel if your property were taken from you by an outside entity. If you are a holocaust survivor you should be more sensitive to this than hardly anybody else. Why do you not wish to answer?
Your question is a strawman. It can't be answered because it's based on the false premise that Jews stole Palestinians' land. Nobody can properly define "Palestinians", of course, but they're so handy for anti-Zionists that historical facts become irrelevant.
Jews are a nation, but Christians and Muslims are not. There's nothing in that article about the birth of a Palestinian nation, or its history throughout centuries, or its accomplishments, or any relevant data.
People lived there under the impression this was their house and their land then suddenly it was taken away by a foreign force so no straw man argument and you choose not to answer and I’m bored with this now.
People lived there under Ottoman rule, they knew this was not their land. 80% of the land was the property of the Ottoman Sultan. Jews lived there too, including in Hebron and Gaza, places seen today as pure Arab from time immemorial. Why is everybody ignoring the constant Jewish presence in Palestine? Why doesn't anyone demand that Jews should be allowed to return to their homes in Gaza? Of course you're bored, you don't have answers.
Nobody? Seriously? One DNA study by Nebel found substantial genetic overlap among Israeli and Palestinian Arabs and Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews. A small but statistically significant difference was found in the Y-chromosomal haplogroup distributions of Sephardic Jews and Palestinians, but no significant differences were found between Ashkenazi Jews and Palestinians nor between the two Jewish communities. Article 22 of The Covenant of the League of Nations conferred an international legal status upon the territories and people which had ceased to be under the sovereignty of the Ottoman Empire as part of a 'sacred trust of civilization'. Article 7 of the League of Nations Mandate required the establishment of a new, separate, Palestinian nationality for the inhabitants. This meant that Palestinians did not become British citizens, and that Palestine was not annexed into the British dominions.[169] The Mandate document divided the population into Jewish and non-Jewish, and Britain, the Mandatory Power considered the Palestinian population to be composed of religious, not national, groups. Consequently, government censuses in 1922 and 1931 would categorize Palestinians confessionally as Muslims, Christians and Jews, with the category of Arab absent.[170] The articles of the Mandate mentioned the civil and religious rights of the non-Jewish communities in Palestine, but not their political status. At the San Remo conference, it was decided to accept the text of those articles, while inserting in the minutes of the conference an undertaking by the Mandatory Power that this would not involve the surrender of any of the rights hitherto enjoyed by the non-Jewish communities in Palestine. In 1922, the British authorities over Mandatory Palestine proposed a draft constitution that would have granted the Palestinian Arabs representation in a Legislative Council on condition that they accept the terms of the mandate. The Palestine Arab delegation rejected the proposal as "wholly unsatisfactory", noting that "the People of Palestine" could not accept the inclusion of the Balfour Declaration in the constitution's preamble as the basis for discussions. They further took issue with the designation of Palestine as a British "colony of the lowest order."[171] The Arabs tried to get the British to offer an Arab legal establishment again roughly ten years later, but to no avail.[172] After the British general, Louis Bols, read out the Balfour Declaration in February 1920, some 1,500 Palestinians demonstrated in the streets of Jerusalem.[173] A month later, during the 1920 Nebi Musa riots, the protests against British rule and Jewish immigration became violent and Bols banned all demonstrations. In May 1921 however, further anti-Jewish riots broke out in Jaffa and dozens of Arabs and Jews were killed in the confrontations.[173] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians
They were known as 'kingdoms' PARTIAL LIST OF ISRAELI ASSASSINATIONS OF PALESTINIANS 2012 – On November 14, two days after Palestinian factions in Gaza agree to a truce following several days of violence, Israel assassinates the leader of Hamas' military wing, Ahmed Jabari, threatening to escalate the violence once again after a week in which at least six Palestinian civilians are killed and dozens more wounded in Israeli attacks. Although Israeli officials know that Jabari is in the process of finalizing a long-term truce, and that he is one of the few people in Gaza who can enforce it, they kill him anyway, marking the start of a week-long assault on Gaza that kills more than 100 Palestinian civilians, including at least 33 children, and wounds more than 1000 others. 2012 – On March 9, Israel violates an Egyptian-brokered ceasefire and assassinates the head of the Gaza-based Popular Resistance Committees, Zuhair al-Qaisi, sparking another round of violence in which at least two dozen Palestinians are killed, including at least four civilians, and scores more wounded. As it usually does, Israel claims it is acting in self-defense, against an imminent attack being planned by the PRC, while providing no evidence to substantiate the allegation. Following the assassination, Israeli journalist Zvi Bar'el writes in the Haaretz newspaper: "It is hard to understand what basis there is for the assertion that Israel is not striving to escalate the situation. One could assume that an armed response by the Popular Resistance Committees or Islamic Jihad to Israel's targeted assassination was taken into account. But did anyone weigh the possibility that the violent reaction could lead to a greater number of Israeli casualties than any terrorist attack that Zuhair al-Qaisi, the secretary-general of the Popular Resistance Committees, could have carried out? "In the absence of a clear answer to that question, one may assume that those who decided to assassinate al-Qaisi once again relied on the 'measured response' strategy, in which an Israeli strike draws a reaction, which draws an Israeli counter-reaction." 2010 – In January, suspected Israeli assassins kill senior Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in a Dubai hotel room. As in the past, the Israeli agents believed to have carried out the killing use forged and stolen foreign passports from western countries, including Britain, France, Ireland and Germany, causing an international uproar. 2009 – On January 15, an Israeli airstrike kills Said Seyam, Hamas’ Interior Minister and member of the Palestinian Legislative Council. 2009 – On January 1, an Israeli airstrike on the home of senior Hamas military commander Nizar Rayan kills him and 15 family members, including 11 of his children. 2006 – On June 8, Israel assassinates Jamal Abu Samhadana, founder of the Popular Resistance Committees and Interior Minister of the Hamas-led Palestinian Authority government, killing three other members of the PRC in the process. 2004 – On April 17, Israel assassinates Abdel Aziz Rantisi, a co-founder of Hamas and its leader since the assassination of Hamas spiritual leader Sheik Ahmed Yassin a month earlier. Rantisi is considered a moderate within Hamas. 2004 – On March 22, Israel assassinates the 67-year-old wheelchair-bound spiritual leader and co-founder of Hamas, Sheik Ahmed Yassin, as he leaves prayers at a mosque in Gaza, killing nine innocent bystanders in the process. 2003 – On March 8, Israel assassinates Ibrahim Maqadma, one of the founders of Hamas and one of its top military commanders. 2002 – On July 23, hours before a widely reported ceasefire declared by Hamas and other Palestinian groups is scheduled to come into effect, Israel bombs an apartment building in the middle of the night in the densely populated Gaza Strip in order to assassinate Hamas leader Salah Shehada. Fourteen civilians, including nine children, are also killed in the attack, and 50 others wounded, leading to a scuttling of the ceasefire and a continuation of violence. 2002 – On January 14, Israel assassinates Raed Karmi, a militant leader in the Fatah party, following a ceasefire agreed to by all Palestinian militant groups the previous month, leading to its cancellation. Later in January, the first suicide bombing by the Fatah linked Al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigade takes place. 2001 – On November 23, Israel assassinates senior Hamas militant, Mahmoud Abu Hanoud. At the time, Hamas was adhering to an agreement made with PLO head Yasser Arafat not to attack targets inside of Israel. Following the killing, Israeli military correspondent of the right-leaning Yediot Ahronot newspaper, Alex Fishman, writes in a front-page story: "We again find ourselves preparing with dread for a new mass terrorist attack within the Green Line [Israel's pre-1967 border]... Whoever gave a green light to this act of liquidation knew full well that he is thereby shattering in one blow the gentleman's agreement between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority; under that agreement, Hamas was to avoid in the near future suicide bombings inside the Green Line..." 2001 – On August 27, Israel uses US-made Apache helicopter gunships to assassinate Abu Ali Mustafa, secretary general of the leftist Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. In response, PFLP members assassinate Israel’s Tourism Minister and notorious right-wing hardliner, Rehavam Ze'evi, who advocated the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza. 2001 – On August 15, undercover Israeli soldiers assassinate Emad Abu Sneineh, a member of the Fatah linked Tanzim militia, opening fire on him at close range. 2001 – On August 5, Israeli forces assassinate Hamas member Amer Mansour Habiri in the West Bank city of Tulkarem, firing missiles at his car from helicopter gunships. 2001 – On July 29, Israel assassinates Jamal Mansour, a senior member of Hamas’ political wing. 2001 – On July 25, as Israeli and Palestinian Authority security officials are scheduled to meet to shore up a six-week-old ceasefire amidst the violence of the Second Intifada, Israel assassinates a senior Islamic Jihad member, Salah Darwazeh in Nablus. 1997 – In September, the Israeli government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu attempts to assassinate Khaled Meshaal, the chairman of Hamas’ political bureau, in Amman, Jordan. Israeli agents using fake Canadian passports attempt to kill Meshaal by injecting poison into his ear. The would-be assassins are quickly captured and in the ensuing diplomatic uproar Jordan’s King Hussein threatens to cut off relations with Israel and publicly try and hang the Israeli agents unless Israel provides the antidote to the poison. The Netanyahu government turns over the antidote, saving Meshaal’s life. As part of the deal, Israel also releases Hamas spiritual leader Ahmed Yassin from prison. 1996 – On January 5, Israel assassinates Hamas military commander Yahya Ayash, known as “The Engineer,” detonating explosives in a cell phone he is using. Over the next two months, Hamas responds by launching four suicide bombings that kill more than 50 Israelis. Israeli intelligence later concludes: “the attacks were most probably a direct reaction to the assassination of Ayash.” 1995 – In October, Israeli gunmen assassinate Fathi Shiqaqi, a founder of Islamic Jihad, in Malta, as he leaves his hotel in Valletta. 1994 – On November 2, Israel assassinates journalist Hani Abed, who has ties to Islamic Jihad, using a bomb rigged to his car. 1988 – On April 16, Israel assassinates senior PLO leader Khalil al-Wazir in Tunisia, even as the Reagan administration is trying to organize an international conference to broker peace between Israelis and Palestinians. The US State Department condemns the murder as an "act of political assassination." In ensuing protests in the occupied territories, a further seven Palestinians are gunned down by Israeli forces. 1986 – On June 9, Khalid Nazzal, Secretary of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, is shot dead by Israeli agents in Athens, Greece. 1983 – On August 21, senior PLO official and top aid to Yasser Arafat, Mamoun Meraish, is shot and killed by Israeli agents in Athens, Greece. According to later Israeli press reports, future Foreign Minister (currently Minister of Justice) Tzipi Livni is involved in Meraish’s killing. 1978 – On March 28, Wadie Haddad, a senior member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, dies in East Germany from slow-acting poison ingested several months earlier. It is later revealed that Israeli agents were behind his murder. 1972 – On July 8, Palestinian author and intellectual Ghassan Kanafani and his 17-year-old niece are killed in Beirut by a car bomb, believed to have been planted by Israeli agents. A member of the left-wing Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Kanafani was considered a major literary figure in the Arab world and beyond. 1972 – During the 1970s, Israel carries out a series of assassinations against Palestinians they accuse of being involved with the Black September militant organization, which is responsible for the hostage taking of Israeli athletes at the 1972 Olympics in Munich, Germany, resulting in the deaths of 11 Israeli athletes and officials. On October 16, 1972, Wael Zwaiter, a renowned Palestinian intellectual and the PLO representative to Italy, is shot and killed by Israeli agents in Rome. Israel accuses him of being involved with Black September, a charge strenuously denied by PLO officials and those who knew him, who pointed out that Zwaiter was a pacifist.
So then by your standards you require british statism for anyone to be counted as existing? Muslim citizens 403,795 86-87% Christian citizens 43,659 9% Jewish citizens 15,011 3% Jewish (foreign-born) Est. 5-10,000 1-2% https://ifamericansknew.org/history/maps.html Maps of Israel and Palestine Historic Palestine UN Partition of Palestine 1948 Israel, West Bank, and Gaza Strip Refugees and Depopulated Villages 1967 and Occupation Annexation of Jerusalem Israeli Settlements on Palestinian Land Historically, the land of Palestine was populated by a people known as the Palestinians. Palestinians have always been religiously diverse, with the Muslim majority maintaining friendly relations with their Christian, Jewish, and Druze brethren. At the turn of the 20th Century, a new Jewish nationalist ideology called Zionism was developing. Zionism called for the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. During this time, increasing numbers of Jewish Europeans immigrated to Palestine, causing the Jewish population to grow from a tiny minority to 35% of the population. Population of Historic Palestine Year --- Jewish Population ------ Non-Jewish Palestinians 1877 --- 426,908 (97%) ------ 13,942 (3%) 1912 --- 665,840 (95%) ------ 36,267 (5%) 1925 --- 780,568 (85%) ------ 137,484 (15%) 1946 --- 1,339,763 (69%) ------ 602,586 (31%) Source: McCarthy, Justin, The Population of Palestine, Columbia University Press: New York, 1990, pp. 10, 35. The brits did what the brits do withe their class mentality, they spread cause hate and discontent segregating peoples that otherwise lived reasonably peacefully together by comparison. No worse than any other adjoining kingdoms of the times. and buildings and monuments legitimize what exactly? More brit statist mentality? I thought you were pontificating your historical expertise, you seriously dont know this? Late Ottoman period In the late nineteenth century, prior to the rise of Zionism, Jews are thought to have comprised between 2% to 5% of the population of Palestine, although the precise population is not known.[30] According to Alexander Scholch, Palestine in 1850 had about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns; roughly 85% were Muslims, 11% were Christians and 4% Jews.[31] The Ottoman census of 1878 indicated the following demographics for the three districts that best approximated what later became Mandatory Palestine; that is, the Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem, the Nablus Sanjak, and the Acre Sanjak.[30] In addition, some scholars estimate approximately 5,000-10,000 additional foreign-born Jews at this time:[32] Group Population Percentage Muslim citizens 403,795 86-87% Christian citizens 43,659 9% Jewish citizens 15,011 3% Jewish (foreign-born) Est. 5-10,000 1-2% Total Up to 472,465 100.0 According to Ottoman statistics studied by Justin McCarthy,[33] the population of Palestine in the early 19th century was 350,000, in 1860 it was 411,000 and in 1900 about 600,000 of which 94% were Arabs. In 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews.[34] McCarthy estimates the non-Jewish population of Palestine at 452,789 in 1882, 737,389 in 1914, 725,507 in 1922, 880,746 in 1931 and 1,339,763 in 1946.[35] According to Dr. Mutaz M. Qafisheh, the number of people who held Ottoman citizenship prior to the British Mandate in 1922 was just over 729,873, of which 7,143 were Jews.[36] Yep the brits drew lines in the sand with the criminal Rothschild, making 2 groups, Brits pals the J-Ws, and other people. So no one solitary soul or settlement existed there prior ro 1948, or is that just when lines started to be drawn by interlopers? Balfour bullshit which everyone disagreed with but the brits, rothschilds and the zionist criminal franchise that exists to this day. hitler didnt give a **** where they went as long as they were outside german borders
My view is that it would have made more sense both legally and ethically to compensate Jewish people with a chunk of Germany and Austria as a homeland as the criminality of the Nazis all occurred on European soil. That said however. It was 72 years ago and Israel has a powerful army and nuclear weapons and they are not going anywhere.
NOT! The J-Ws declared war on Germany long before hitler touched a hair on their heads, not to mention the J-Ws tried to starve them out with a food blockade after ww1 was over. hitler served beer to the prisoners in auschwitz. 11,000 chose to stay after ww2 was over! Compared to eisenweiner hitler rolled out the red carpet for J-W prisoners, weiner simply murdered the germans after ww2 in cold blood. Sure hell they got the US backing every call they make, they own europe and they own us pal!
@Kokomojojo - if I was sure you were interested in an honest debate, I'd answer your posts. However, I don't think you're interested.
There is No such thing as Palestinians and the issue of them Bedouins is NOT related to the OP. The world is infected with Corona Virus and all you deal about is the poor Palestinians. Please continue with your propaganda ... them Bedouins will stay poor and continue to suck our Europian donations.
Covid is a minor virus and a shadow issue. The issues in Israel have the potential to sink the entire world into war. Priorities should be set for the chronic worriers. I live until I die and worry takes precious time away from the shortness of life!
Im so sorry to inform you that an 'honest' debate does not equate to agreeing with you, since I rarely have every been able to agree with you because you have rarely been correct, so suffice to say Im not really interested, but hey, thanks for the offer. and the earth is flat! You really should consider reading the thread before asking questions that have already been answered especially since I already posted it on several occasions, otherwise Google is your best friend ron.
I have read the thread no where do you show evidence of which Jews declared war on Hitler or tried to starve them after WW1. Did not think you had any evidence. Deflection noted.
Try again Koko, unless you are suggesting the Nuremberg laws and Kristallnacht happened after 39! And where is the evidence of the jewish blockade after WW1 and which Jews carried it out? Finally are you saying that a newspaper article is evidence that millions of Jews declared war, where does the article say the Jews declared war??
gee ron the J-Ws declared war on Germany in 33! Please study wwII history 000001 instead of wasting everyones time. No ron I am saying its common knowledge for anyone who so much as cracked the cover and did so little as a poor read of history.
