Air caused the flag to move so it was obviously in a studio.

It's obvious to everyone but the wilfully dense, that the lens flares move with the flag.

How typical of your cognitive ability, or lack thereof. The gif is from Apollohoax forum from the user Headlikearock. Prove it was doctored you disingenuous joke.

Groundhog day, you can keep giving the simple explanation, but it unfortunately needs a modicum of intelligence to understand it. Once again for the spammer:-

Initial movement evidence points to a video artefact/blooming. It could also be static electricity, kicked regolith or ground vibration. The one thing that is physically impossible is that the cause is air.

Movement after he has passed by is caused by his elbow brushing the flag.

Two separate non mutually exclusive occurrences.

I don't think this will ever sink in, or it's just deliberate trolling. He brushed it as he went past it. See above.

He concludes he could have brushed it, then dismisses it because of the initial movement. It's like he has his hand operating you as his sounding piece!


Conclusion: When somebody has spent hundreds of hours spamming the same claim, repeating the same posts, cutting and pasting almost identical responses on dozens of forums, when they get their bubble burst by a conclusive piece of evidence, they claim it was doctored.

Nobody with even average computer ability can fail to be able to do two separate screen prints and make an online gif - so will the spammer do this to prove his point? No, he won't. The gif isn't doctored, his claim is blown to high heaven and all he can do is repeat and feign ignorance(which he does amazingly well).

 

Sorry but this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFMpmjEv9o0

...makes it very clear that his elbow hadn't reached the flag yet when it started moving. This is simply too clear to obfuscate. This blows you out of the water and your not recognizing it doesn't change anything.

Firstly, there is no visible movement of the rod or pole as would be the case if ground vibration were the cause of the movement. Secondly, the movement is not consistent with its having been caused by ground vibration. The movement is not coming from the rod or pole. The movement is consistent with its having been hit with a wall of air.

That video of MythBusters' was shown to be a fraud a long time ago. Watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7yc2rVOs00


MythBusters doesn't deal with the anomaly being discussed in this thread (see post #1). Here's a video of Jarrah White showing it to Grant Imahara.

"Jarrah White shows Grant Imahara the Apollo 15 flag"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jYLRglPxYo

That paid sophist Grant Imahara just blew it off without addressing the actual issue. The audience didn't get a good look at the anomaly.

MythBusters is a mainstream TV program. Nothing on mainstream TV is going to be objective about Apollo. Here's some more stuff that exposes MythBusters as a disinfo program.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5ajIVmGiQE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23BIb_PMJ4M
http://aulis.com/mythbusters.htm

 

By god man are you an imbecile?! The two events are separate and not mutually exclusive. How many more times must you be told this before you stop pretending that you haven't understood?

You are a liar. There is clear movement of the entire flag and pole to the right.

From 1 minute onwards:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4gbMT-Zs2Y

These are actual screenshots from the official video, anybody can repeat this. Scott/Cosmored won't do this and post his results, because he knows these are authentic. He just bleats that it is doctored when it is not.

You are as far away from being qualified to make that judgement as any person I have come across. Your opinion is less than worthless.

The vertical pole moves left, so it's doubtful that it is anything more than a video artefact.

From 4-6 feet away? A statement from pure ignorance of wave dynamics. Go and watch the actions of air in a wave tunnel.

Or my video:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJyv4TYpTKo

Explain that video.

Debunked by me and ignored by the spammer.

http://debunking-a-moron.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/apollo-17-flag.html

Prove he is a paid sophist.

 

There you go again trying to confuse the viewers who haven't looked closely at the anomalies. I'll post this again thwart you.

The wall of air I'm referring to is the one at the 00:47 time mark of this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFMpmjEv9o0

The astronaut is not 4-6 feet away. He is about 1 foot away.


When disinfo agents are cornered on an issue, they try to muddy the waters to keep the viewers confused.

 

Spam. Thwart me from doing what? Not one single person is being taken in by your spammed claims. They've been answered hundreds of times. It is nobody's fault that you are unable to understand.

From the Jarrah White video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW9qcL4LiUg

This still:-



As I said 4-6 feet. Or did Jarrah doctor his video too?

Oh really! Jarrah White backs up what I said. You actually aren't a disinfo agent, you're just a very strange person with a compulsive need to keep making the same claims, whilst you deliberately ignore all responses. Your whole wall of spam has been debunked to death, yet you still post it in full on new forums. Very sad behaviour.

Here is how air behaves(please note that it is more accentuated than a flag would be, since the floor acts as a complete airflow redirector):-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJyv4TYpTKo


Not even a foot, a few inches at most!

 

Please stop the baiting and taunting and post on topic, respectfully.

Thanks
Shangrila
PF Moderator

 

Jarrah White said the flag started moving at this point:-



The flag height is 0.9 metres. I've taken a height cross section and rotated sideways times two. That's 1.8 metres, 1/2 inch shy of 6 feet.

There is nothing on this planet at any speed that pushes air 6 feet in front of it.



You can argue about this Apollo 15 flag on the \moon all you like, but your entire claim relies on a false premise. Air doesn't move forwards the way you claim, the distance you claim or in a vacuum!

 

I'll post this again so it doesn't get buried.

(from post #1

The part of this video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn6MTrin5eU
(2:37 time mark)

...that I'm claiming is the irrefutable hoax proof is the part at which the astronaut is about one foot away from the flag. It can be seen here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFMpmjEv9o0
(00:47 time mark)

Discussing the movement when he's six feet away from the flag doesn't make the other movement go away. You say the astronaut brushed the flag with his arm to cause that movement. The above video shows that he'd have to be a foot or so closer for his arm to touch the flag. The flag started moving before his arm was close enough to touch it. Therefore, they were in air. Therefore, they were in a studio.

Please don't respond to this by addressing the movement when he was about six feet away. Please address the movement which happened when the astronaut was about a foot away.

 

Spam.

It's been refuted but you have no answer to it.

The movement that begins at 6 feet, now we have proven it, is one continuous one until he passes by the flag!

No, I say the movement after he passes by was caused by the astronaut. The one before is either a video artefact supported by moving lens flares and the whole flag and pole shifting right, or kicked regolith, or ground vibration or static. It is impossible for a moving object to project air in front of it more than even a few inches, let alone your fictitious one foot!

Correct, he hasn't yet brushed the flag

Explain the lens flares moving.

The only thing such movement physically cannot be is from air. Proven.

The same movement begins from 6 feet away, impossible from air. From 1 feet, impossible from air. A few inches, possible.

 

Simply insisting that he brushed it with his elbow isn't a refutation (Viewers! Go back and read the earlier parts of this thread). My answer is that he wasn't close enough to the flag to brush it with his elbow when it started moving.

This video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFMpmjEv9o0
(00:47 time mark)

...shows that it started moving just before he got close enough to touch it so your statement makes no sense. It starts moving at the precise moment when the air from the astronaut would make it move.

What happened when he was six feet away is all moot as what happened when he was about a foot away proves they were in air so please don't keep referring back to what happened when he was six feet away. This issue is about what happened when he was about a foot away.


edit five minutes later.
---------------------------------------

This is what Betamax said in post #10.

He sees that this isn't holding water so he's changing his story.

 

Groundhog day. Simply saying your claim is irrefutable doesn't make it so. Saying it is air, when air does not behave that way is like suggesting it was an invisible elephant.

Is spam.

I cannot fathom how anybody could struggle to understand simple English. I shall once again attempt to explain this below.

No you seem confused. The movement begins as one steady motion when he is 6 feet away. The animated gif from your video shows this.

Yes, definitely confused. Maybe you have selective blindness? See the screenprint from Jarrah's video? It "definitely starts" when he is 6 feet away.

Definitely. I agree with him. Even if, and that is not the case, it started moving at a 1 foot distance, air does not behave that way either!

Here:- The astronaut brushes it with his arm, you cannot argue with Jarrah White's analysis can you? It is completely irrelevant that he says the flag moved before. He shows quite clearly that the astronaut's elbow is easily close enough to brush the flag.

Nope. My story is the same as it has been from the first exchange on this subject right up to this 100th or so. I am simply exhausted mentally at your total inability to understand a simple explanation. Here it is again:-

There are two occurrences in the footage that you refer to.

There is the very small initial movement - not caused by elbow contact, it occurs before he gets to the flag and is not disputed whatsoever and never has been.

There is the much larger movement we see after he has passed by - this is where he has brushed the flag with his arm. This is confirmed as being a perfectly reasonable and feasible statement by Jarrah White and two other analyses.

Now was that clear enough?

The second movement is from his elbow.

The initial movement is either a video artefact( evidenced by moving lens flares and the entire flag and pole shifting right as the bright astronaut comes into frame), kicked regolith, which from various video references frequently travels well in advance of a moving astronaut, static electricity(which I consider unlikely though possible) and finally ground vibration which is indeterminable and impossible to prove or disprove.

The only thing that can be said without any doubt, is that air cannot possibly be the cause of the slight initial movement. It begins from 6 feet away and is moving in the same direction right up until the astronaut obscures the view in passing. Your claim that it starts at 1 foot is total hogwash.

Air does not travel 1 foot in advance of a moving body. There are hundreds of pictures available online of objects in a wind tunnel.

a/ Find me a wind tunnel picture with air a foot in front of the object.

b/ Explain the lens flares moving and if your claim is subterfuge - prove it!

 

The flag continues to move after he has passed by but the beginning of the movement can be seen just before he passes by if we look at it in slow-motion. This video was made by a regular pro-Apollo poster from the Clavius forum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFMpmjEv9o0
(00112 time mark)

Watch it at the 1:26 time mark and tell us whether you agree with what he says.


That video makes it pretty clear that something other than his arm made the flag move as his arm wasn't close enough to touch the flag when it started moving. It also shows that it wasn't camara bloom as it's real movement.

The initial movement when he was six feet away is moot as the movement when he was closer proves he was in air so don't try to divert attention away from this fact by telling us about the initial movement.

 

You are claiming one continuous movement with no contact, yet all 3 analyses show he clearly would make contact.

How about at the 1:23 time mark?



Your main evidence shows exactly how far away he was when there is movement. Your crap about 1 foot away exposed by your own video!

His arm struck the flag after this, as he was passing.

Apologies to other members for shouting, the simple explanation in my post above didn't sink in. I'm truly speechless at quite how somebody cannot correctly read what I have written.

Explain the lens flares. The video concentrates on just the bottom corner. The whole flag and pole shift right, as one.

The only diversion going on is from you. One continuous movement starts(according to your very own video) from even further away than Jarrah White's six feet. Your suggestion that the movement only counts from 1 foot is ridiculous, plus it ignores the cold hard fact that air doesn't behave in that way from 1 foot any more than it does from 6 feet plus!

 

I'll post this again so that it doesn't get buried.

(from post #1

Nothing you said makes what this video shows go away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFMpmjEv9o0
(01:12 time mark)

The major movement that caused the flag to move much more strongly than it had been moving before could not have been caused by its having been brushed with the astronaut's arm. It clearly started moving before he got close enough to touch it.

The slight movement that started when the astronaut was about six feet away...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QrvGmfUxRA
(8:56 time mark)

...is a moot issue as the movement that started when he was about a foot away proves that they were in atmosphere so please stop trying to draw attention away from the movement that started when he was about a foot away by talking about the slight movement that started when he was about six feet away.

Also, you didn't answer this question from my last post.

I still want an answer.

 

Spam

A ridiculous statement, you have no answer to my points. I don't care whether the video goes away or not. There are explanations for it, none of them being the impossible, unsupportable "wall of air".

I wonder whether you actually think that having an opinion, that is decidedly uninformed, actually means it is true! You discount his arm contacting the flag(after he has passed!) for no valid reason. No reason at all actually.

Your claim is a ridiculous joke. You seem unable to grasp the movement starting at 6 feet, doesn't suddenly translate to it starting at 1 foot! We've seen proof from Jarrah White that it began to move right from over 6 feet away and continued right up until the view was obscured. You seem also unable to grasp that even from 1 foot, let alone over 6 feet, air does not behave that way.

Which part of this picture are you having a problem with:-

I've answered it a 100 times! The video concentrates on the bottom right hand corner. The whole flag moves right with the flagpole. The movement is either caused by a video artefact, kicked regolith, ground vibration or static. We can eliminate air as being the cause without any doubt, the one thing your forum spamming insists it is.

Explain how the lens flares move, and prove the gif was doctored, show your own one. Go and find a picture of air being pushed a foot in front of a moving object. Here is another example, this time an airplane wing and high velocity air:-



All you can do is respam your claims. You have nothing, your "wall of air" claim is absurd non physics.

Explain this video:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JixGapxKURc

Here, let me explain for you:- "Debunking his own final conclusion on the Apollo 15 flag movement, by jumping next to a heavy wide surface area bed in his bedroom as a debunk to a footstep on the Moon that may have moved a slim flexible flagpole. Failing to actually move it with air, from fairly close up. "

Explain how Jarrah White running past a flag only started it moving when he was level with it. A flag that billowed when he ran past it!

 

You sure are good at tap dancing around and muddying the waters to sidestep an issue that has you cornered.

This video proves that the flag started moving before he got close enough to touch it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFMpmjEv9o0
(1:12 time mark)

That means his arm didn't make it move. If his arm didn't make it move, air made it move.

The video also shows very clearly that it was real movement and not camera bloom. This closes the whole case. The footage was filmed in atmosphere. Nothing you've said refutes this.

Saying he might have touched it as he was passing doesn't make the fact that it had started moving before he got close enough to touch it go away.

 

Yes it does. What it doesn't do, and never has done or never will do, is prove he didn't go on to then subsequently strike the flag with his elbow.

No. It means that his arm didn't make it move before he got to it. It doesn't mean his arm didn't then strike it immediately afterwards. Your conclusion is called a false dichotomy. It is impossible for air to move the flag from 6 feet or 1 foot.

The whole flag shifts right, not just the corner, the lens flares move. It is not my fault you have difficulties in reading comprehension.

Yes, I agree with that statement.

a/ Explain the lens flares - if you claim it was doctored, prove it with your own gif.

b/ Find me a wind tunnel picture where air is moving a foot away in front of the object(let alone six feet away, where the actual movement actually starts!).

c/ Explain why Jarrah White's flag doesn't move until he is level with it.

d/ Explain why Jarrah White's flag billows as he goes by, but the Apollo 15 flag does not.

e/ Explain why his bed sheet doesn't move as he walks by at less than a foot distance.

f/ Give a detailed scientific explanation why kicked regolith striking the base didn't cause the movement.

g/ Give a detailed explanation why ground vibration as he ran towards it didn't cause the movement.

You are cornered, you have nothing. All you can do is repeat spam, ignore my requests and feign ignorance.

 

You never did give a clear unambiguous answer to this.

Let's hear your answer.

The issue is that it was already moving. If his arm didn't make it move, air made it move. Saying he might have touched it with his arm after it had already started moving doesn't explain why it had already started moving.

Sorry but this video shows that it was real movement caused by air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFMpmjEv9o0
(1:12 time mark)

Nothing you've posted makes this go away. Most of your questions in your last post are irrelevant; you're just trying to muddy the waters.

The case is closed. Air made the flag move.

 

I've dealt with these before. The nature of the movement is consistent with the flag's having been hit with a wall of air. The flag wasn't pulled by the rod or pole. It was pushed from the direction of the astronaut.

 

where did he breeze come from

 

I have tried to educate this person. I think he is doing this deliberately, so I will just post refutations as we go rather than respond to him. I shall ignore answers he gives where it is just his uninformed, unsubstantiated opinion. That covers nearly everything he posts!

My blog:- http://debunking-a-moron.blogspot.co.uk/

 

Translation:

This video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFMpmjEv9o0
(01:12 time mark)

...makes it so clear that air moved the flag that if I keep trying to obfuscate it, I'll just look perpetually silly so I'd better use the "Declare Victory and Disappear" tactic.

This is the one question of mine that he didn't dare try to answer.

 

I await a response to this post and my questions.

 

He concludes the flag started moving at a distance of six feet. How? Oh and I agree with him. The flag moves, either as part of a video artefact or from kicked regolith, ground vibration or static. Not air. Not from 6 feet or 1 foot.

All these questions leave this person cornered:-

a/ Explain the lens flares - if you claim it was doctored, prove it with your own gif.

b/ Find me a wind tunnel picture where air is moving a foot away in front of the object(let alone six feet away, where the actual movement actually starts!).

c/ Explain why Jarrah White's flag doesn't move until he is level with it.

d/ Explain why Jarrah White's flag billows as he goes by, but the Apollo 15 flag does not.

e/ Explain why his bed sheet doesn't move as he walks by at less than a foot distance.

f/ Give a detailed scientific explanation why kicked regolith striking the base didn't cause the movement. By detailed I mean one that is not your uninformed opinion - that's where the wscientific explanation bit comes in.

g/ Give a detailed scientific explanation why ground vibration as he ran towards it didn't cause the movement. By detailed I mean one that is not your uninformed opinion - that's where the wscientific explanation bit comes in.

 

The astronaut,apparently has his own wind source,and when he walks toward a flag,it starts a'flappin'