All Things Australia

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by Moi621, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    You couldn't live in a state run by Jones.
     
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  2. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    What amazes me is that we live in a new millennium, we have access to unimaginable amounts of historical data, we have technology that was science fiction 20 years ago, we have sent probes to Mars and the outer limits of the galaxy, we have one on the way to sun. We can do miracles in medicine and feel we are intelligent and enlightened.

    Surely there are enough reasonably good people to have a political system ,not ideology that works
     
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  3. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Tassie produces some remarkable grog- Bill Larks Whisky and gin!
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  4. Dissily Mordentroge

    Dissily Mordentroge Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How I wish we did have a ‘political system’ that worked without ideology. However, any form of organised governance is still going to by directed by members of our species and until and unless that particular problem is solved we’re heading, I’m afraid, for extinction. Not so scary at my age but the young who manage to work this out are often frightened and damaged to the point of committing suicide. Interestingly the behaviour of our species in general is hardly ever mentioned when the many other causes of youth suicide are analysed. To my mind this isn’t the age of information technology so much as the ‘age of denial’.
     
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  5. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    A committee, but that is still run by people who have ideas and biases.
     
  6. Dissily Mordentroge

    Dissily Mordentroge Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I’ve never been a mad scotch drinker but since tasting a few of the local varieties I’m hynotised by their complexity and character.
    https://hellyersroaddistillery.com.au

    There’s something odd though happening down here I learnt from the owner of a wine shop in Launceston. Whenever I went there few customers were in evidence so I asked the owner how she managed to stay afloat. She giggled and told me every week or so several buses full of Chinese tourists arrived, spent on average $3000 each ( that’s right, three zeros) PLUS fright and high import duty in China. The sad thing about this she feels is a high percentage of the red wine is then put away in cellars never to be drunk but kept as an investment.
    Anyhow, who am I complain when I have access to cellar door sales in my locality. Just wish there was equal access to ‘green’.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
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  7. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, we already knew that this is happening.

    Even when presented with facts, supported by evidence, many choose not to believe them
    Date:
    October 9, 2018
    Source:
    Indiana University
    Summary:
    In an era of fact-checking and 'alternative facts,' many people simply choose not to believe research findings and other established facts, according to a new article.
    Share:

    FULL STORY

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181009114939.htm
     
  8. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    HAHAHA, A political system without ideology...

    I have to ask, isn't that, in itself, an Ideology, might you not think???

    BUT I always remember a story my father told me. He worked in the DDP straight out of UNI when an internal position opened up. The position was a better than his current one with better pay. So he applied for it. He got an interview and at the appointed time he proceeded to the interview. When the door opened there were three men sitting at a table and one of them was his boss who said “what do you want this job for?” Well he said for twenty minutes the three of them argued about this comment until his boss said, go back to work and he will talk to him after.

    Later that day, his boss asked him why he wanted the job to which he said it was better job that paid more. No he boss said you don’t want that job and that was that. Now my father realised then that if you do your job they like to keep you where you are. BUT if you don’t do your job for whatever reason, they cannot sack you so the only way a department head could get rid of you was kick you upstairs… as my farther said few years ago “and now the SH/T is rising to the surface.”

    Do we really have enough reasonably good people to have a better system??? Clearly, they are not in politics or bureaucracy…
     
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  9. slipperyfish

    slipperyfish Well-Known Member

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    The problem in my opinion is that both major parties have drifted from the centre.

    The centre historically provides for the majority of society, whichever side of the divide is in power at the time.

    John Howard was never centre, he was always on the conservative right of his party, but his treasurer and main competition was from the centre, so invariably to keep things balanced and his job safe, most economic and inevitably, social, policy was derived from a more moderate perspective. Most.

    However the moderate centre of the Liberal party is in total decline and now the party is firmly controlled by the conservative edge and inevitably most policy will be derived from that ideological bed, and with little opposition from the moderate centre, these policies are delived for all to debate. Not all conservative policy is bad, but most is not well received because it usually appeals to a smaller demographic of the major populous.

    Now on the hand you have Labor. Any who argues that modern day Labor resembles anything like the great Labor parties of the past, frankly has no idea about politics.

    This party has metamorphisised into a popularity party. Just like the young bloke running for school president on a policy of two hour lunch times and free joints, Bill Shorten is straight out of the movie Fast Times at Ridgemont High. I don’t care what people say, this bloke is the biggest fool in politics. He called out Turnbull for sleeping with The Big End of Town, well Blinky Bill is getting a saggy backside himself from sleeping with The Low End of Town.

    Labor is a big ship that requires a lot of steering, and a well skippered Labor can appeal to a large portion of Australians, however this rudderless ship has been slowly moving further left looking for more support from the socialist side, abandoning the middle and unfortunately those precious working Labor souls that have so long been the backbone of their party. They are now a more “Progressive” party of latte elite and have courted a more refined urban voter, one with money and brains, so who needs coal workers, timber cutters, iron workers, and other filthy bogan trash? They don’t anymore it appears, as they are now “Progressive”, and they no longer need voters from the “dark arts”.

    To me it appears both parties are abandoning the majority, forcing more defined policy upon us, defined to their new ideological thinking, their “new path”, as it seems. The old style of broad policy may now be a thing of the past. We may be now heading towards a more European style of parliament, with Multi party representation. God help us all.
     
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  10. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's the 21st Century.
    It's how Moi Feels About It
    that counts.



    I happened to watch Trump and Kanye on TV when they me.
    There was press all around.
    I thought it was civil and interesting.
    Fox spun it one way, MSNBC the other.
    Having watched it I believe Fox gave the less biased report.
    The only facts I have is what I saw on TV.

    Consider MeToo establishes guilt without a trial. They feel so strongly about . . . . .


    Hasn't the How I Feel About It culture reached down under?



    Moi :oldman:






    Don't :flagcanada:ize Australia
     
  11. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    Labor is a big ship that requires a lot of steering, and a well skippered Labor can appeal to a large portion of Australians, however this rudderless ship has been slowly moving further left looking for more support from the socialist side, abandoning the middle and unfortunately those precious working Labor souls that have so long been the backbone of their party. They are now a more “Progressive” party of latte elite and have courted a more refined urban voter, one with money and brains, so who needs coal workers, timber cutters, iron workers, and other filthy bogan trash? They don’t anymore it appears, as they are now “Progressive”, and they no longer need voters from the “dark arts”.

    This is the problem. I think the Americans call it "Identity Politics". Call me out of touch but I do believe Labor should be appealing primarily to the working class. I'm certainly for providing recognition and support to other people than the working class, the welfare class for example. But as Labor has drifted away from its working class constituency so the Libs have moved in - "Howard's Battlers" and "aspirationals" - come to mind. Labor needs to be focused on those without capital, those without privilege, those without a voice.
     
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  12. Dissily Mordentroge

    Dissily Mordentroge Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There’s always something very wrong with any party that appeals to any particular class to the exclusion of others.
    "Labor needs to be focused on those without capital, those without privilege, those without a voice.?”
    Sounds very warm and cuddly until you start looking around for funding.
    Unions, you might want to claim, can provide funding but a counterclaim can be made they aren’t exactly ‘those without capital, privilege or a voice’.
    I’m talking here about the union hierarchy though, not the rank and file.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018 at 6:15 PM
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  13. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't vote Labor if they appealed to the owners of capital. Labor should be the political voice of the working class and sundry others who don't have that voice. The owners of capital will always be able to suggest to government that things should be done this way or that. The power in our society is held by the owners, we can only hope to counterbalance it with a government that is not ideologically welded to the owners. True a Labor government must work with the owners but not be captured.

    Yes unions are the main funders of Labor. And we know why that's the case and none of us should be surprised by it. We could ask why unions fund Labor and what their motives are and contrast those with the owners.
     
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  14. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    I would beg to differ with your analysis of what Labor party should be. They should not simply be a party for one sector of the nation. But that is another point entirely.

    No ALP should be the party of social reform of which once they were. This was the difference between the Liberal and Labor parties from conception but for a very long time the ALP has moved further away from social policy to placating the high end of town, So to speak.

    The unions have become just as benevolent as the corporate empires with their constant appealing to the working mans greed in order to sell their hard earned working rights to line the Union wallets with the eye on the prize of sitting as a labor member in parliament. ALL at the cost of their members who expect them to represent their best interest NOT the unions.

    ALP policy shows just how much they have moved to high end of town and simple self-gratification in effort for self-promotion for the purpose of simply taking office. The ALP has decided to announce if it gets into government it will pass tax cuts for the top end of town once they achieve a 21% budget surplus. SO how are they going to fund it??? Cut investment franking raising taxes on many investments who cannot change their portfolio, you guessed it mostly self-funded retirees. In fact all their new tax policy removes opportunity to grow while getting absolutely NO return from the high end of town, and then they will give that end of town a tax cut…

    Seriously??? You wouldn’t vote for them “if they appealed to the owners of capital” ??? Whenever, these politicians talk about fairness in taxation you can be well assured they are going to screw the everyday worker, while bypassing the high end of town so to speak… Both major parties are the same so trying to split hairs on that point… Just demonstrates that many are ignorant that the high end of town do not pay income tax like everyday people because in taxation purpose… they don’t get an income…


    If you say you support them in this day and age, then your opening comment…
     
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  15. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    I know I "liked" both answers there is truth in both and ultimate truth lies somewhere between
     
  16. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    All this left right capitalism socialism union money corporate money it's all bs.

    We need to ditch all ideology except one. The ideology of fix the problems from worst to least worse for the best interests of as many as possible without regard to who or what they are.

    There is answer 2:
     
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  17. Dissily Mordentroge

    Dissily Mordentroge Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    First off you’ll have to change the very fundamental nature of our species I’m afraid.
    Then remove the influence of social media and the likes of Rupert Murdoch, assasinate both Putin , Trump and a few others and pray the ecological mess we’ve created can be reversed before we all - - - - - - - - - - -
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018 at 7:10 AM
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  18. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    I never said it would be easy, painless or possible
     
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  19. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    OMG, your opening a can of worms here. Social media… Bloody hell mainstream media has sunk to the point that if it is on face book it must be real… I think we all can see the sewerage pit of the social media bringing the not just the nation, but the world into a sceptic pit of hatred and despair… I think we all can agree on that…
     
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  20. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    I take your points Garry. I'm disappointed with how Labor has turned out. But I still have faith that they will do the right thing in government. Yes they are going to have to keep the owners satisfied, but they'll have to look after the rest of us to survive.

    Labor and the unions have been about ameliorating the more harmful effects of capitalism. They ditched the socialism clause back in the 1970s I think, it must have been scaring the punters.

    Capitalism will not be removed. It may be supplanted but on balance it has positive benefits especially when it's regulated properly.

    However - thoughts from watching a bit of Q&A (which I try to ignore) on iView - the environment is going to be the big issue. Capitalism cannot exist in an environment where resources are scarce. It's an irony that concern for the environment might signal the beginning of the end for capitalism.
     

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