American College of Physicians calls for radical change

It takes a doctor years and a small fortune before they can be licensed, and they, not unreasonably want a return on their investment.
You also have to factor in the huge amount of money they pay for insurance against malpractice lawsuits. That's where the handful get rich at the expense of others; the ambulance chasing attorneys.
If we can get rid of them, who IMHO are the lowest form of animal life next to a syphilis germ, then we can start to improve the situation.

 

Oh but you did. You think that you are the only person that is trying to improve the country, and only your perspectives on the best way to do that are justified. Everybody else is only interested in enriching themselves or sending the country down the gutter. THAT is assuming that your perspectives are superior.

Our country was founded upon the concepts of Individual Liberty and freedom as a means of improving the standard of living for everybody. It has been tremendously successful in doing so while simultaneously remaining the most innovative country the planet has ever seen. We utilize capitalism to promote individual opportunity, re-enforcing that anybody can make as much money as they want, which inherently creates an environment that benefits everybody.

What you desire a system that provides equity of outcomes, serving the needs of everybody for anything you deem as a "right". What this perspective and agenda requires is the removal of individual liberty and the freedom of individuals to earn wealth. As you stated, medical doctors should just get used to earning less. That is contrary to the very foundations of which our great nation was founded.

What is naive and ignorant is your inability to see the repercussions of your agenda. You are willing to trade short term Robinhood tactics that you perceive to be beneficial while simultaneously ignoring or not understanding that the ability to create the ultra wealthy leads to innovation, technology, systems, and education that actually promotes the quality of life for everybody around the globe.

People are not interested in getting educated, working hard, being innovative, and taking risk to serve your agenda. They simply aren't. They are not interested in assuming the cost of education and the years of studying to become a physician so that you can enforce an agenda contrary to the labor market that forces their wages down.

All you are capable of seeing is "me me me", thinking you are somehow benefiting the country, and the people, while simultaneously ignoring the realities of what makes this country so great. There are many countries out there that have governments that provide for people from birth to death, living in very modest homes, being taxed at 40%, and they are so happy. Yet those countries are never responsible for innovating anything, creating new wealth, or advancing society. These people peddle their bicycles to the local coffee shop, unable to afford to drive due to government interference, and work on their projects to earn a paycheck that they know the government will take nearly half. But they are happy, because at the end of the day, that nanny state government takes care of them. All the while, they are completely dependent on countries like the United States, China, and Germany to actually develop new technology and innovate new products that benefit them. Then, people bitch and moan that it is unfair that the innovators, the risk takers, the highly educated are getting rich?

If what you want is a nanny state that wipes your ass from birth to death, those places are available. Go join the lemmings that are duped by their government into believing they have it so great... all the while completely unable to provide any significant innovation produced by Denmark or Norway.

Money is the motivator. People are not motivated or willing to take risk if there is not a reward. This is a lesson that has clearly been lost on progressives which is paramount to the very foundations for which this country was built.

Have you ever stopped and wondered why so many doctors in our country are from Asian and India? Think about it, let me know what you think that is from.

 

This is called reality.

People are not interested in working for less money to serve your social agenda. That isn't how humans work. Nobody wakes up in the morning and thinks "I sure am glad I woke up at 5 am to put in a 14 hour day so I can serve humanity"!.

The progressive liberals seem to think that people actually give a **** about others. They might, so long as there is a paycheck connected to giving a ****. Otherwise, they rarely will bend over backwards day-in and day-out to serve this Robinhood agenda.

The fact is humans are inherently selfish. The only people who think that people are willing to dedicate their lives to others are the ones who stand to benefit from said charity.

I finished high school, joined the military, completed college and an extensive residency, put in regular 12 - 16 hour days not for you. Not for joe hamburger down the street that started popping out kids in the 11th grade. I do all of that for my family, my friends, my community, and lastly society. And I do it because it comes with a big paycheck.

The problem with progressive liberals is that they can't seem to make the connection between people's individual inherent wants and how that translates to advancement of society. All of the people that invented things, from the cotton gin, to the assembly line, to facebook did it FOR THE MONEY. Not so that everybody could have cotton clothing at an affordable price, or cheaply made automobiles. That was not their motivation, that was not their driver. They did it to become wealthy, and the secondary benefit is that all of those things DID benefit society.

What progressive liberals want to do, is remove the wealth that drives such innovation assuming that society still gets the benefit of innovation and advancement only some people don't get rich... for more equitable outcomes. That simply isn't reality.

 

Case in point of the ignorant.

Society didn't suffer. Society now enjoys innovative pharmaceuticals, things like MRIs and advanced imaging systems, new techniques for non-invasive surgery, robotic systems that reduce infection and provide more consistent outcomes. All of these things have benefited ALL of society. Our citizens are living longer and more comfortable lives as a result.

But it costs money, yes because people expect to be compensated for making these advancements.

What progressive liberals are basically saying is "we want you to work your ass off, make highly technical advancements that benefit healthcare, but you need to give us that for a low cost we can afford".

No, screw that. That isn't how it works.

 

Our legal system also is in desperate need of being addressed, I agree.
The cost of education especially for items that are for the public good are another area.

 

Physicians making $300-500k is not what makes your healthcare expensive. They are the small pockets. But it takes intelligence to understand that.

If they ain't worth $300-500K, you're certainly not worth your income.
You'd take anything from anyone if you thought it would get you what you want, and that's what's really disgusting.

 

These ****ers want everyone else to do the work and make the sacrifices, then take it from them.

 

Doctor pay is a tiny slice of the issue — throw in that many practices now spend more time on billing and insurance related activities than patient care, the cost of pharmaceuticals, the cost of medical equipment, lack of public education on healthcare issues plus the insurance and medical industry profits and you have the bloated system we have today.

When you receive healthcare it isn’t one doctor making half a million that is the issue, its the dozens of other people you never even see making that much or more.

 

They don't wanna do the work it takes to get there, they don't want to put in the long days, they don't want to give up their nights and weekends being on call, driving to the hospital a 3:00 am to save someones life, assume any of the risk or deal with any of the ungrateful, hostile, idiot patients. They just want somebody else's stuff cheap, so they can go play more and waste their money on things they want

 

And you just got done saying you don't mind reducing physicisnpay so you can get what you want

 

You have no idea what I “want”. I could care less if people preforming the work are paid well. I wouldn’t even mind if doctors were paid more as long as the overall costs leveled out to what is paid by other nations for similar results.

 

If health was a primary concern, our efforts would be focused on prevention, not the farce we call "health care" which is really just masking symptoms so that the disease can worsen.

 

And you know that how?

 

So, still at it I see.

Everyone standing on their D or R, talking points flying.

No point from outside the D/R boxes to kick around?

How will we ever have a productive discussion if we cannot tamp our own vitriol?

Can we start by using words properly? I'll share my particular pet peeve. The word socialism refers to an economic policy whereby the state owns the means of production. PoliSci 101, yea?

The Medicare social safety net DOES NOT, de facto, mean that the United States Government owns the means of production in this nation. Can we agree on at least that much?

IMHO, throwing that word around is tantamount to hyperbolic fear-mongering.

Round-filing it opens the door for a rational discussion on how the US might find sustainable alternatives to providing more access to healthcare for all Americans.

I have already posted a video that I had truly hoped would be viewed.

I did not offer it as Our Solution.

I offered it as a response to the false dichotomy that that surrounds this topic.

Do I believe we can jump into these galoshes and take off running? Hell, no! Our feet are far too big, and we have far too many extraneous factors that must be resolved.

No matter where you stand, your political affiliation, I believe there is something of interest to you in this video.

While broad, I believe that the lessons therein speak directly to the healthcare conversation in America.

So yeah, it's 56 minutes, a long time for web surfers but you guys are political junkies and I believe you have the attention span to handle the task.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...-radical-change.567096/page-2#post-1071361950

I'll leave you with a sincere admonition, no intention of arrogance:

Solomon said ...
He who answers the matter before he has heard it is a fool.

 

Because you haven't provided any feasible cost effective affordable alternative!

 

Your bet can never be settled without interviewing them. Good luck.

 

Oh those horrid progressive liberals!!!

Now, what is it that is so admirable about the right wing conservatives? I've forgotten somehow.

 

First would be to address the half a trillion (yes, with a T) the top 8 health insurance companies made last year — that would probably lower costs a tad...

 

^ THIS is worth repeating over & over.

 

Well they seem to be greedy bastards if the comments in this thread are anything to go by — “**** society and everyone else, I just wanna make all the money” should be the slogan of the alt-right. Or maybe just party of the seven deadly sins?

 

Only in the US, in other first world nations people believe in more than the concept of “me me me”. Americans did also in our history.

 

LOL! Um, no. AAMF, the average net profit of health insurers is in the middle of the pack of all corps - in the 4% to 5%.range.

 

I am discussing gross revenue (you know, the amount they suck out of the economy) not what they classify as profits. Try again.

 

Please watch this interview of Milton Friedman by Phil Donahue. It will debunk your theories in toto.:

 

YOUR claim re: what they "made."

Do those goal posts get heavier each time you move them?