BREAKING: Bill Barr news conference 9:30am EST - Discuss

That is NOT what the Mueller report says.

The Mueller report states that at the outset, Russia just wanted to disrupt America. But, when Trump emerged, they moved their focus to attack Clinton.

And, no, Trump's administration has NOT made quite rational moves to protect our democracy against Russia. In fact, he blocked moves by congress.

 

What moves and that is nonsense. Why didn't they tell the Trump campaign if they had evidence the Russians were trying to infiltrate them?

No more happy that I am sure Hillary was when she got the Russian dirt through her foreign agent but then Trump never got any information from Russia nor participate with Russia on anything.

 

They attacked Clinton more because they were able to get into her campaign emails where they were not able to Trump's but they also did things to the Trump campaign. And bottom line is nothing they did had any effect on the campaign results.

 

No, that's not what the Mueller report says.

And, let's remember that Manafort in particular gave campaign information to Russia when it was known that Russia was attacking Clinton - polling data and identifying which were considered background states, etc. Also, Clinton family members looked to Russia for information on Clinton.

You have NO IDEA whether this affected the election

And, remember that I did not bring that up - YOU did! YOU are the one wound up about Clinton, not me.

MY point is that our democracy was attacked by Russia and Trump's reaction was and remains looking for personal political gain in those attacks - NOT the defense of the United States.

 

You’re the one who said it’s online

 

There does not have to be an underlying crime in order for there to be obstruction of justice.

 

And he's STILL fine with it. I have no doubt we will have to win by a VERY decisive margin in 2020 to overcome more Russian meddling.

Trump's entire conduct in re Russia since the election is only enough against them to maintain plausible deniability. I wonder how many of our deep cover spies he has KILLED to pay back Putin for the Presidency.

This will all come out as the years roll on. Hopefully we can lay it at the feet of the Orange Oaf as he languishes in Leavenworth. At the least it will keep people from ever voting Republican again if they should somehow recover from the coming debacle in 2020.

 

Which bolded is definitely impeachable and possibly treasonous (aiding a hostile in wartime)

 

We're not at war with Russia. I will LOL at "aiding a hostile in wartime".

 

There is a war on terror, formally declared.

 

And if there isn't a predicate reasonable suspension of a crime to justify investigation, warrants and seizures, then can we not reasonably assume that the investigation was politically motivated and indicia of misfeasance on the part of the investigating body?

Yes we can.

Can we also conclude then, that the failure to find evidence of a crime or bring charges before the court after an exhaustive two years; utilizing, 14 Deputy Attorneys General; 45 FBI agents; 500 warrants, and thousands of interviews, proof positive that the underlying suspicion was unreasonable, unjustified and illegally motivated?

Yes we can.

Assemble the jury.

 

Great, then all involved in the illegal investigation intended to unseat an elected president can be charged with treason and hung by the neck till dead.

 

Do you understand the difference in a war declared on terror and a war declared on another sovereign nation?

 

Real Clear Politics where you can see all the major polling data.

What is the distinction you are making between the data in all those polls and the internal polls?

 

How was justice obstructed? Where is the indictment for obstruction of justice?

 

It was the Clinton campaign that colluded with a foreign agent to obtain information from Russia to use in our democracy to try and smear her opposition and then those at the highest levels of government worked with her to bring down a sitting President with this false narrative which you swallowed hok line and sinker.

 

Go to my previous posts.

 

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The War on Terror is, AFAIK, a formally declared war, and yet it does not seem to have a specific nation it has been declared against. Is that correct? It operates generally in Irag, Syria and Afghanistan, but it is not limited to them. It may extend to other nations and one of them is Russia, an ally of Syria.

 

If they illegally do so by aiding illegal Russian efforts to do so and thus give material aid to such illegal efforts. Were the Russians trying to unseat Trump after they had elected him?

 

Because they aren't using bullets when they attack us?

 

Not bullets, not nukes. Russia didn't attack us. No Russian missiles, planes, bombs, paratroopers, submarines, or warships descended on the United States in 2016. None even threatened the nation from afar (and they can).

Did Russia “meddle” in the US election? Yes. Were we attacked? No. If true (and it's not), the US, like any great power, must eventually strike back, which would mean we are now living in a state of impending war with Russia, conceivably nuclear war.

 

Yo! Von Clausewitz, welcome back to the living. Yeah yeah war is just an extention of diplomacy by other means, your point?

 

??
They attacked our democracy.

They seeded unrest, partisan conflict and disrupted our election.

We combat that when we see that happen to allies.

And, Trump KNEW the Russians were attacking.

His reaction was to take personal political advantage - and, to ignore defending America.

 

Eh, "they" acted in what they thought was their best interest, like all nation states are want to do. Frankly I haven seen any evidence that suggests which way they were trying to push. Just being a general pain and staying active is my guess but more than likely it had a little to do with payback for our meddling in the Ukraine. We, specifically Obama and Hillary, f'd up their plans and desire for an allied border state, access to oil and a deep warm water port. When their efforts failed, due to our meddling in their backyard, they had to take Crimea through "diplomacy by other means." This got expensive and payback is a mother, ask Hillary.

We combat that when we see that happen to allies?

We do it to our allies! We foment this crap more than most.

They seeded unrest, partisan conflict and disrupted our election?

No, that was our legacy media and the never Trump gang.

Von Clausewitz, you've gone soft.

 

The issue is what Mueller proved - NOT what you seem to think.

I agree that Putin hated the Clintons. However, that is not an excuse for Russian attacks. Let's remember that Mueller stated that the initial assault by Russia was simply on our democratic process as a whole - focusing on exacerbating partisan hate and disruption leading to a less effective government.

Mueller states that the focus became pro Trump after they saw that he was a great vehicle for their purposes.

None of that excuses Russia. And, ALL of that IS an attack on America and our democracy.

Having a president who saw an attack on America as an opportunity for personal political gain and thus refused to defend America (even today) is a legitimate reason for impeachment as it is counter to his oath of office.