Brexit Deal Agreed Between UK & EU / Can UK cope without Northern Ireland?

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by The Rhetoric of Life, Oct 17, 2019.

  1. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2017
    Messages:
    16,649
    Likes Received:
    4,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Northern Ireland doesn't want a hard border with Ireland and Scotland wants to stay with the EU.
     
  2. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    8,029
    Likes Received:
    2,195
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't think British Citizens should vote in any Irish election and I don't think Irish Citizens should vote in any British elections; I personally feel that one must become a citizen of the country and be above a certain age before getting the vote; Otherwise it's foreign meddling in my opinion.
     
  3. philosophical

    philosophical Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Invented the automobile production line (Henry Ford son of an Irish immigrant), Invented the submarine (John Holland), The modern tractor and first four wheel drive formula one car (Harry Ferguson), The tank (Walter Wilson), Colour photography (John Joly), the monorail (Louis Brennen), The nikel zinc battery (Dr James Drumm), splitting the atom (Ernest Walton), Guinness, and milk chocolate (Sir Hans Sloane). Loads of great writers such as Joyce, Shaw, Yeates, Beckett and many others...and the Duke of Wellington was an Irishman.
    Carry on.
     
  4. philosophical

    philosophical Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    The UK still colonises six Irish counties. As for Irish history check it out you will find the modern troubles were created by the British.
     
    DavidMK likes this.
  5. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,301
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    Returned - he returned to Ireland having been their slave after being kidnaped by raiders :) St Pat was an Englishman,
     
  6. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,301
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
  7. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,301
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    Actually troubles began with Irish raiders to the main land - they were fierce tribal people who regularly raided minland villages plundering. raping. murdering, laying waste and kidnapping people as slaves and or possibly for sacrifice. James I tried calming the tribes peacefully but there after politicos were not so thoughtful in their solutions - terrible terrible treatment was metered out by the Sassenach and the Scot who were sent there to contain the Irish - The last troubles began with Protestant ( Scottish) violence against (Loyalists) who begged the British for help - The US threatened to send in the UN so the British army was sent in - The IRA didn't like that and stared to attack soldiers, as did children too, who were ordered not to fire back - the rest we know .... but the foundations, though one cannot but cringe at the treatment at our hands over the years, of the Troubles was not what it seems at first. Many were taken to the US as slaves were they not?

    Vikings used Ireland as a base too --- but that is before the Romans - who had a commercial relationship with the Irish, I believe.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
    Red Lily likes this.
  8. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    8,029
    Likes Received:
    2,195
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    UK is six counties on that island, and what?
    They want to do what the rest of us do and if they got to Brexit too, that would be cool, but if no one gets to Brexit because of them; I love Thin Lizzy and all, but, that would be the only thing I'd miss and I'd start to question if we can cope without Northern Ireland.

    I mean, other than what, a ship that sank over 100 years ago on its maiden voyage and Game of Thrones filming locations fame, it'll be Thin Lizzy and Thin Lizzy alone being my only reservation about letting these people go if they stop Brexit and continue to beat the rest of the UK up over the Good Friday Agreement where, without Northern Ireland, it'll be so much easier, and maybe it's just dragging it on so much, that, is Northern Ireland worth it? I know I said I'd miss Thin Lizzy and I will, but that said, Soho had the Jimi Hendrix Experience and that's a lot cooler and a lot closer to home in my book; so, as much as it sucks to lose Northern Ireland, I'd be okay with what I've got.

    The only thing Northern Ireland has done for me lately is prop up my party to avoid a Marxist from ceasing power.

    It's also the fault on the EU's part for splitting the UK up like that. UK's not pushing for a wall or to keep Northern Ireland in the EU rules and regulations and alignment; it is the EU, so the EU should really be the ones to compensate Northern Ireland for forcing them out of the UK common market, since UK can't force Ireland out of the EU common market but EU can force Northern Ireland out of the UK's.
    I say, have 1 island 2 systems and to Hell with the EU trying to keep 1 system on the island.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
  9. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    16,879
    Likes Received:
    2,475
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    So you would like to keep people with dual British/Irish citizenship without a vote. No surprise there.
     
  10. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    8,029
    Likes Received:
    2,195
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Republic of Ireland ladies and gentleman.
     
  11. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    8,029
    Likes Received:
    2,195
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    They'd get to vote where they're registered to vote.
     
  12. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    16,879
    Likes Received:
    2,475
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Can you provide evidence that they currently do something different. I have dual British/Irish Citizenship but I have never voted in an Irish election. Have I been missing out?
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
  13. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    8,029
    Likes Received:
    2,195
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What about people who vote in the UK who haven't got duel citizenship and aren't British?
    They could be from anywhere, what about EU nationals voting in the UK?
    America have the right idea - if you're not a citizen, you don't get to vote.
     
  14. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    16,879
    Likes Received:
    2,475
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Oh is this worth it. You were talking about your dislike of people with dual citizenship beling able to have a vote at all. You then declared they were voting in two countries. Now you are onto the EU nationals. As far as they are concerned

    https://www.gov.uk/elections-in-the-uk/european-parliament

    The US allows Duel Citizenship.
     
  15. philosophical

    philosophical Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I believe the Romans came before the Vikings.
     
  16. philosophical

    philosophical Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    If your party is the conservatives they make great play out of adding and unionist. May and Johnson have repeatedly said they won't break up the union.
    Maybe they ought not to have been, or be, believed.
     
  17. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,301
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    Oh yes, between the Romans and the Normans with a slight overlap. I was tired, posting late into the night, my mind wanders ;)
     
  18. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,301
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    Usually, unless they especially change the rules ie Thatcher did it, I think you have to be resident here, in order to vote for MPs or Councils. EU residence can vote for MEPs here but not MPs or Councils, for instance. But a lot of fraud has been going on in areas with a large Muslim populations - Peterborough for example - people have just been imprisoned for said fraud there but they didn't rerun the vote. Terrible area now ------------- they have found houses with 16 little children and 'one mother' from Romania and such like - even Pakistanis are moving out of those areas which have gangsters driving around in posh cars -running battles between all the immigrant populations are breaking out and the death rate is enormous. Never mind the rapes - the estimate is now about 3 million gang rapes and pimping out of girl children and some boys over the period from the 1960s to now -
    Every year each household has to, by law, fill in a form stating who is living in the house - from that we get polling cards which alone we showed, or not in most cases, at the polling station in order to vote. But now we are going to have to show photo ID in order to vote because the fraud ( in Labour areas with large immigrant populations) has been so rampant. MEND the Muslim Engagement & Development wrote in their online website before the last election that Muslims could by block voting in swing seats secure Labour 39 seats - which is what happened and why Labour have neglected/betrayed their old working class roots and now court the Muslim and youth voters - insisting there are not enough Muslims in Britain. The Muslim Mayor of London telling is that there are 'too many white people' here there and everywhere. Suicide - it is suicide.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
  19. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,301
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    They have not turned their back on the Unionists - Boris has just tried to find a solution which does not give us a hard border - May blew it completely after Tusk offered her a Canada style deal which she refused. The Irish problem is her fault. The backstop her idea.
     
  20. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    16,879
    Likes Received:
    2,475
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
  21. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,301
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    Macron is holding out - of course he wants fishing rights to our waters as he wants our car manufacturing but ............ he is holding out against the Council.
     
  22. philosophical

    philosophical Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Isn't that the problem essentially? 17.4 million people voted for a hard border and Boris Johnson doesn't recognise that reality?
     
  23. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,301
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    Nobody voted for a hard border - not one body did that. There always had to be a deal of some sort because we are disconnecting ourselves from one overbearing governing power which encompasses 28 separated units now knitted together as one.

    The DUP were ok with this Boris deal, whereas they were not, no one was, happy with Mays - but pressure is now being put on them from businesses in NI - why and who and what? I posted and article explaining it from NIish pov. The process of disentangling ourselves is not easy simply because our old systems and institutions have been remodeled into EU run systems and institutions - most people here have no idea of what happened or how just that it did happen - and it was so massive, the change, that two generations have forgotten our once society with a decent civil life.
     
  24. philosophical

    philosophical Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    It is very likely that nobody consciously voted for a hard border, but the uncomfortable reality, the unintended consequence if you like for voting to leave is that it was a vote for a hard border. Indeed it can be argued that a hard border is one of the few things we can be certain was voted for. Leave means leave, it does not mean stay joined.
    If you are right in saying 'there always had to be a deal of some sort' then the debate is about what sort. And the sort chosen by Theresa May was brexit in name only with the land border question kicked down the road forever, Boris Johnson has offered brexit in name only with a shift to the hard border in the Irish sea.
    Everybody says all problems will go away and there will be sunny uplands with a comprehensive free trade deal between the whole of the UK and the EU ensuring common customs regulations, but I fail to see how that is leaving at all, and anyway nobody voted for any kind of deal in the voting booth.
     
  25. philosophical

    philosophical Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28

Share This Page