Capitalism Vs. Socialism in the UK

SNAFU.

UK is refusing to pay tribute to the emperors of Europe again.
Normal. Normal and ****ed up.

The people don't trust their government. Normal
The people want something new. Normal.
The people don't trust anything new because new always turns out to be more of the same. Normal and ****ed up.

 

But things are changing. The increase in the vote from young folk illustrates that. There is a change from the old political consensus, generated by Thatcher and Blair. Labour has been ripped from its comfort. The Tories will go next. The people are demanding innovation in how we do things, independent of the kiss kiss of the BBC

 

I believe in "the children are the revolution".
That things will change.

But some things won't change. The same old things that have never changed. And for these we preserve traditions.
So we become resistant to change as a defence mechanism. And our traditions arm us with racial knowledge about how to survive.

The people will always demand innovation. I will always demand innovation. And I will never be satisfied no matter how good it gets, pretty soon my vanity will tell me that I can do it better. Nature of the beast.

Some lessons you have to learn the hard way, all young people will become old too. It is their destiny. That which seems so smart to them now, seemed so smart to me once too.
And then.... life happens. Perspectives change. Priorities change. More thought is given. Understanding deepens.
Experience. We put our theories to the test. We learn from our mistakes.

 

What won't change? We were told Brexit would fail. We were told we had to support Blairism. The change in attitudes are decidedly slippery for the consensus harvesters

 

If you supported Blairism and got a mortgage when Blair told you to, you would be rich now. (Just like he is).
So jumping on the bandwagon isn't necessarily a stupid thing to do, if that's the trend of the day.

Human nature won't change.
There will still be a pecking order. There will still be conflict of interest and criminal behaviour.
There will still be rulers and ruled. Rich and poor. Content and malcontent.

I will still need food and water and shelter and heat. I will still shag women and make babies.
And then need even more food and shelter and heat. our human wants and needs remain unchanged our nature, remains unchanged. The nature of our conflicts remain unchanged.

Our attitudes to gays and blacks is changed. Our tastes in clothes and foods and music is changed. Attitudes change all the time. Practical realities not so much.

 

Only if you bought in London or the South.

Certainly, but its typically geared to a sub-set of the population. Teflon Tony certainly heavily benefited our financial class.

No one is suggesting some form of communist utopia. But they are certainly rebelling against the severe inequalities generated by neo-liberalism. How will that end that? I don't know. I do know, however, that the orthodox are losing out. They predict according to out-dated median opinion and they're looking like idiots (from politician to journalist)

You exaggerate our conflicts. I go most days without wanting to punch someone's teeth out. I achieve that as we are social animals. Indeed, it our social nature that has led to rejection of the neo-liberal consensus.

 

I was financial class in the Blair days. It did not benefit me. Quite the opposite.
I became consistently poorer throughout.

Those were austerity years for many of us.
As you say, what benefits some may not benefit others.

The Blair years benefitted borrowers at the expense of savers.
Equip me with a TARDIS and I will change what I did.

I don't want to punch anyone's teeth in on most days either. Nor do most people and that hasn't changed and will not change.
We are social animals. We are no more prone to fighting each other than meerkats.
And yet situations have and will again occur in which I pull a gun on someone.
Some one will decide he owns something I own. And I will disagree.
Some one will decide my wife is his wife and I will disagree.

I have yet to either shoot someone or punch some ones teeth in.
And my recognisable ability and willingness to do so, acts as a strong deterrent to this unhappy scenario.

Most times if a dog barks loudly enough, unnecessary conflicts can be avoided.
But the tensions are still there. They always have been, they always will be.

When a guy with no apples see's a guy with 10 apples, he will be jealous.
When a guy who doesn't recognise the labour involved in planting apple trees and maintaining them see's an apple on a tree, he may consider it a gift from nature. A fruit which he is entitled to eat. And this will never change.
Conflict is assured.

There has always been conflict and there always will be. This will not change.
And the political struggle between liberalism and socialism is one more example of man's conflicting nature.

Both sides can't win.



So we will still fight over women, over territory and over resources.
There is a human need for all these things and only a finite number of them available.
It is not possible for everyone in the world to have all the things they want.
It is not possible for everyone in the world to have all the things they need either.

Some will starve.
I will not allow my loved ones to starve and if that means taking the last food from your loved ones, I will.
We are in competition not only with members of our own species but also a great many other life forms.
And this will never change.
Nature.

The nature of the beast remains unchanged. It is fundamental.

 

I don't actually see a whole lot of rebelling going on.
Just a load of moaning.

Bitcoin probably counts as rebellion. It's niche. Anyone here can use their own economic model. Anyone can start a Kibutz or a co-op, live like the gypsies or the Amish. But sod all people choose to.
They aren't rebelling at all. They are simply going with a system they know best, as the path of least resistance to getting to where they wish to go.

 

Then you need to be more perceptive

You have a bias, but ignoring the changes in politics (Labour Party; electoral vote etc) just ensures irrelevance.

 

I am happy and indeed pleased to be irrelevent.
Like most people I believe in minding my own business.

Making yourself relevent in other peoples lives, very bad form. Anti social behaviour.

 

And so I try and adhere to this popular methodology for life.

Walk softly, carry a big stick.

I will try very hard to make myself irrelevant to others. The wise amongst them will reciprocate.
The unwise, well... you get the idea.

 

Works splendidly when we have simple relations on a par with living on desert islands. Unfortunately its rarely that way. Self-interest will regularly lead to costs on others, with capitalism generating zero-sum outcomes where costs are imposed on others

 

Works splendidly until faced with tyrants. Then we kill them, and it works splendidly again.
That I am unwilling to involve myself in your life is not to be confused with my inability to do so.

Pretty simple relationship. You will mind your own business. Capitalist or otherwise.
Fail to do so, and I will reciprocate.

I put no costs on your life and I will accept none of yours.
You may wish to claim I am being selfish. You may be unable to accept the common good in peaceful harmonious living.
That being the case, we will simply force you to.

So that's your choice. Peace or war.

Respect the freedom we allow you.
Refuse to reciprocate it and we will do the same.

If you do not wish to use capitalism, don't.
I will not force you.

This is a free country and it will remain so. Or else it won't. Your choice.
Mutual respect or mutual disrespect. I have made my choice, you must make yours.

Fascism however, not going to work out well for you.
I recommend avoiding this path entirely.

 

Ignore coercion; Baff says so! Strong argument

 

Ignoring coercion is the social norm.
It's the moral norm in most societies. if not all.

If you wish to be coerced, carry on. I do not tell you not to.
If you wish to coerce me, try it. See where it gets you.

As a general rule you should recognise that attempts to coerce people ultimately results in their non co-operation with you. Their enmity. Mafia's are not loved.

 

Nice summary of the petty right. "Let's ignore coercion"! God bless you for the honesty

 

Close but not quite.
Ignore it until it becomes unignorable... and then respond in kind, with superior force.

The far left are extremists.
They walk loudly and carry a tiny stick.

I do not wish to coerce them, but if necessary I can. And will.
However since I do not wish to be coerced myself, I am resistant to coercing others.

Criminals prey on our desire not to coerce people. They prey on our good natures.
These people are anti social and we deal with them accordingly.
In extreme cases, we imprison or kill them.

Rather than coerce them however, typically we just exclude them from our society.
Wankers get left out. No invite to the party for them. No job offer. No trade with them. Don't sit with them down the pub. No votes for them. etc.

We just ignore them. Leave them to it and get on with our lives without their involvement.
Live and let live.

 

Who are the far left? Did the Daily Mail tell you?

 

The Guardian did when they printed <insert story here>.

That lapdog of Corbyn who writes for The Guardian is proof enough of far leftism.

 

Don't be shy now. Tell me who the far left are!

 

I don't know his name...
Jones...
That young gay guy who froths at the mouth whenever he talks about the government and once was on TV citing for anarchy...

Blocked me on Twitter... What is his name?


Someone Jones.

 

So you use a term you can't define? Tut tut

 

This guy, who writes for The Guardian @Reiver

 

If you think he's an extremist then clearer we have nothing to say to each other. I only deal with logical comment. You managed to twin ignorance of 'far left' political economy with ineptness.

 

I also think that's Liberal being the new Nazi since you just cut off from dialogue and then accuse others/Capitalists, usually - of being beneath debate.