China’s playing the long game, and is making key moves to hedge against Trump’s tariffs

Discussion in 'Asia' started by s002wjh, Aug 28, 2019.

  1. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    Right now China is the biggest adversary in trade. We have historically given emerging nation's a break to help lift them from poverty but China no longer needs that help and is abusing the privilege.
    As for jobs coming home from China it will be select high tech industrues. Emerging third world countries are welcome to some of the lower tech value added production. We just don't need that here anymore for a healthy economy. We need to focus in high tech high value such as solar technologies that China stole from us.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  2. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree - and to add I would claim that we are still underestimating China. This is why it is important to make good moves on the geopolitical chessboard going forward. What we have been doing is pretending we are still the world economic empire - with an economy that dwarfs all others - and this is simply no longer the case.

    China will soon have a larger economy than ours - they surpassed us in terms of purchasing power a number of years ago. Everyone still wants to play in the US economy - because we are still a major player. The difference is that there are now other playgrounds and they want to play in those too... and so the calculation is much different. It used to be "Yes Sir" .. what ever you say... and we got used to this. This is no longer the case.

    If we don't want to play in China - that is not going to stop others from going there.. Same with India and other nations. We want to play in these markets as this will benefit our economy - We want a win win though.. and there are areas where we have been taken advantage of.

    The tariff war is not going to solve the problem .. and at some point we will make a deal. The big problem is Trump going around forcing other nations to abide by the Unilateral Iran Sanctions. That was a huge blunder that is hurting us.


    Yup ... China indeed stole the farm .. but that is past history. It is China that now wants good international property law because they have already stolen everything - and they are now innovators ... and we are either losing ground or falling behind.

    In 2000 - our total military spend (including defense, homeland security, pensions and so on) was roughly 300 Billion.

    After 8 years of Bush this spend increased to over 900 Billion .. and under Obama over 1 Trillion. Had we maintained 2000 spending levels (increasing with inflation) we could have diverted 500 Billion/yr x 16 years = 8 Trillion dollars to infrastructure, technology, ramping up our economy to compete in the third millennium.

    Instead we threw that money down the toilet fighting useless wars - the primary purpose of which was to pad the pockets of the international financiers who dictate our foreign policy and own the military industrial complex. Same group that is responsible for much of this outsourcing to begin with.

    Interest on our debt had been roughly 420 Billion/year over this period .. add another 7 Trillion to the total. In the time that Trump has been in office this interest has suddenly started increasing - and is now over 500 Billion/year. (again to pad the pockets of same international financiers who own the banks)

    We spent 3.5 Trillion dollars on healthcare - roughly double all other first world nations on a per person basis - and all of which have universal health care - and we don't. Again to pad the pockets of the same international financiers who own the insurance, drug and healthcare oligopolies. There is at least a Trillion dollars on the table .. per year . Didn't check past spending but I think it is safe to say that we can add another 10 Trillion to the total.

    The debt figure is perhaps - not realistic - perhaps we could have saved 30% or more of the total. The other two however are not that unrealistic.

    Trump has not really done anything significant to address the systemic issues here at home. The trade issue with China is a small issue by comparison - albeit still important but - perspective is important as well.

    We need to start making good moves on the geopolitical chessboard and Trump is making some bad ones ... Forcing Iran Sanctions on - messing with the sovereignty of our allies and other nations of the world being one of the biggest blunders.
     
  3. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    This is supposed to be a debate not a venue to publish short stories online. Am I actually supposed to respond to that?
     
  4. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    "The Gish gallop is a technique used during debating that focuses on overwhelming an opponent with as many arguments as possible, without regard for accuracy or strength of the arguments."
    "During a Gish gallop, a debater confronts an opponent with a rapid series of many specious arguments, half-truths, and misrepresentations in a short space of time, which makes it impossible for the opponent to refute all of them within the format of a formal debate.[3][4]In practice, each point raised by the "Gish galloper" takes considerably more time to refute or fact-check than it did to state in the first place.[5] The technique wastes an opponent's time and may cast doubt on the opponent's debating ability for an audience unfamiliar with the technique, especially if no independent fact-checking is involved[6] or if the audience has limited knowledge of the topics."

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
     
  5. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    China’s playing the long game, and is making key moves to hedge against Trump’s tariffs

    China's long game has been stated by them publicly. It is to replace the US as the worlds #1 economy and military power because it is their destiny. Tell me, do you think they will be much more ethical and moral in their treatment of the rest of the world when they become the preeminent power than they are with Hong Kong, Philippines, Taiwan or Tibet?
    Do you think we should continue to aid and assist them in their public goal to conquer us and the rest of the world? It sure sounds that way.
     
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  6. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    not sure where you get the destiny part. do they want good GDP sure, its same as india and everyone else. what the ppl want there is same as everwhere, good jobs, good house etc. so if every chinese gdp per capital is 20k USD, then they would be #1 economy due to pop size. its same as india. as for strategic interest every nation has them, russia w/its east EU, US with globally, india with nepal/pakistan/bangldish, etc etc. name one major nation that doesn't have strategic interest. Saudi is bomb the **** out of yemen where 50k civilian using weapon we sold to them. Sudan war kill what 500k ppl
     
  7. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    China wants to rule the world. If you do not already know that you need to research the topic.
     
  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do get on a roll once in awhile.. but, background is sometimes important as is having an informed opinion.
     
  9. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't confuse your lack of reading comprehension with Gish gallop :) Nor should you confuse fallacious labeling - Strawman - with valid argument.

    Now did you have something rational to contribute or are you late to your "Projection Therapy" appointment :)
     
  10. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Because that's not what is happening or going to happen.
    You don't negotiate policy by beating the other side into submission.
     
  11. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    You argue for the status quo

    Thats good for china and bad for America
     
  12. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    I comprehended what you were doing just fine.

    "During a Gish gallop, a debater confronts an opponent with a rapid series of many specious arguments, half-truths, and misrepresentations in a short space of time"

    Now do you have something rational to contribute or just more attempts to evade actual debate?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  13. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    And how should it be done? Ask china nicely to stop stealing our intellectual property, manipulating their currency and putting trade barriers on our imports? Ask them nicely to abide by the same pollution standards our manufacturing does? Ask them nicely to stop forced prison labor? Ask them nicely to stop dumping below cost goods in our market to put our industries out of business. Maybe we could have a beer summit and cook some weenies around the fire and tell ghost stories and sing songs?
    In the real world deals are made by forceful means. You assert your rights or you get run over by a bus. Your snowflake way of doing things is not realistic in the harsh light of day
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  14. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    if you never been to china or study china, you need do a research on that. they have no interest rule the world, but they do have security interest on sea lines that transport their goods. they are more interest in making $$ and get their citizen to have same style of life as other developed nations.
     
  15. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    You can always count on the Left to put a smiley face over China and a frown over the US. But then the Left houses some authoritarians and the US is dedicated to the opposite, the securing of individual rights.

    As for "Long Game China" Xi Jinping Has Created a ‘Communist Nightmare.’
     
  16. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    not a left, I vote bush before, more of independent. just happen to know about china much more than other ppl. and I highly suggest talk to Chinese here to get a good understanding otherwise its just ignorant ppl reading news that's suit their view, like foxnews. now not saying Xi is good, he is a dictator, but there is a separation of Chinese view vs Xi. CCP stay in power because it bring economy benefit, simple as that. ppl tolerate CCP control is also because they put economy/stability priority over political ones, at least for most of them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  17. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Trump is all hat and no cattle.

    Saudi Arabia dramatically changing its oil exports to ...
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/15/saudi-arabia-dramatically-changing-its-oil-exports-to...
    Aug 15, 2019 · Saudi Arabia's crude shipments to China have doubled in the span of a year. During the same period, its oil exports to the U.S. have dropped by nearly two-thirds. The numbers signal a …
     
  18. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...ongress-beijing-30-year-plan-global-dominance
    https://www.theepochtimes.com/chinas-big-plans-to-rule-the-world_2825600.html
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2017/11/30/china_has_a_plan_to_rule_the_world_427657.html
    https://www.news.com.au/finance/eco...d/news-story/cd114b46e10194325422e2ef3f4eb5db

    https://www.followcn.com/china-plan-rule-world/
     
  19. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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  20. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    lol so somehow all these news know the inner thinking of CCP? or could it be they just want more viewer ? there are too many fake news or sensationalized news to get viewer rating. btw one of your link is from falun gong, do a search on them. read too many exaggerate news will lower your brain cell ;) For CCP most important issue is its domestic audience, they spend way more $$$ on their internal security vs their military spending. if you know china, then you know almost all Chinese dynasty fall from within or civil war. Even when mongol invade china in 13th century it was due to weak/corrupt Song dynasty. CCP know their history hence they are concentrate on domestic economy/security to make sure they don't end up like one of those Chinese dynasty.
     
  21. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The reverse is true - do not project your issues on to me. And next time you want to be critical - at least state what you are being critical about - as in .. what "status quo" argument are you claiming I have made.
     
  22. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Giftedone likes this.
  23. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I did contribute - and all you did is cry "gish gallop - specious arguments - half truths - misrepresentations" prior to running to the playground to stick head deep in the sandbox of denial.
     
  24. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    The Chinese are a lot smarter than Trump gives them credit for.
    If you look at this his failure with the Iran deal will give China a very low cost source of oil that will allow them to stop buying US oil - a win in the trade war, and do it without using US dollars. At the same time it will lock up Pakistan for the Chinese since Pakistan really, really needs the oil.
     
  25. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Basically Trump struck out again.
     

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