Could a real estate boom plus better Fed policy pay off USA national debt?

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by DennisTate, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Islamic-Marxist coalition?

    Where, when, how? Islamists are dedicated capitalists!

    They just don't believe in YOUR CHRISTIAN GOD who was first Jewish ...
     
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  2. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps for someone (like you?) who already owns a house.

    But for the younger generation that do not yet own a house, a boom raises significantly the entry-barrier.

    And, it is my own personal feeling that the US is overdue as regards real-estate pricing. The pricing has gone too far too soon. A correction is in order. (Not a pricing crash, but a fall-back.)

    Something has got to give - this boom has to slow down. That is, typically real-estate pricing reacting to the onset of an economic downturn/slowdown - call it what you may ...

    PS: Market-economies are like sail-boats. When the wind is "up", everything is fine. Wow what speeds with the wind in your face! But when the wind dies down, you are "dead in the water". (And with a mortgage but without a job!)
     
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  3. Quadhole

    Quadhole Well-Known Member

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    You are correct. You have to be over 50 and have lived thru some of the good times 1945 - 1985 to understand where we are now.
    At least this has been my experience. My daughter 21 at UCF Grad school asks me ? after ?. I love it because it shows her interest in reality.
    Reality within the national surroundings is the tough part for every man trying to work thru this society. We want to become a realtor and then expect a Buying boom. Or, be a car salesman and each additional model year is so so important. Maybe take up fishing as a hobby and then 30% of your time is spent on prep.

    Very few want to venture into the reality of our financial system because it always hits a wall. The wall is set up by the right wing paid think tanks. There is no better way to put it other than to tell the truth. While on FOX news this morning they had a women say "stopping socialism starts at home" this women wants moms to go home and tell their kids about FREEDOM. She mentions nothing of the financial situation people find themselves in. We did not need SOCIALISM until now. It is because the rich have 99% of all the money and they are the 1%.

    Amazing the greed from these paid think tanks controlled by the likes of the Koch Brothers (one dead now) and other Zionist (very rich pundits) that push for even less taxation. For all Peter Schiff does and talks about, he is still a Zionist who will use his greed to keep all his money. As long as the starving people are out of sight, they can be out of mind.

    When I graduated high school in 1983 I finished 249 out of 252 because I just did not give a sh*t. I could go to any business make great money and climb the corporate ladder to success. It only took hard work and learning that business. Today we seem to pick a career path and hope things fall in place. You need mass $$$$ of schooling just to make 60k a year. I could make that easily with a 4 year degree in 1983.

    Until Americans pay attention to what : is the FED, where the money goes, how crooked the system is, how much propaganda is swimming in the news. And of the utmost importance is who is controlling the news, why, when where and how. We will not change. Even is Sanders or Warren win at best you will get some measly tax change, 1%, 2%... Because it is so much cheaper for a billionaire to pay 250 MILLION dollars to run TV ads day in and day out then to pay a 50% tax on 50 Billion dollars. That is how much money they now have an americans are so so clueless.
     
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  4. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But many people who pose as Muslims are actually Atheists who
    are being paid to attempt to keep the Middle East in a state of war.

    Many Atheists are really good at quoting certain verses in the Koran that
    keep tensions between Muslims and Israelis high.

    https://www.tldm.org/news9/russianinfluenceonmideast.htm

     
  5. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do have an answer for that problem that I have worded in a way that may make it somewhat more
    palatable to the most outspoken opponents of such an idea. (Economist Milton Friedman advocated unconditional income supplements in order to break the power of the bureaucracy that is needed for the present welfare state):


    Would a Basic Minimum Income dramatically reduce abortions?

    Five hundred dollars per Canadian per month, can this work?

    I am advocating the usage of the Bank of Canada that is owned by all Canadians to finance giving five hundred dollars per month to all thirty seven million Canadians.

    It will of course mean much more to poorer Canadians than to millionaires........
    but it could be surprising how many stay at home wives with cheap and stingy millionaire husbands who control the purse strings of the home may find this extra five hundred very helpful indeed.

    I suspect that well over eighty percent of of Canadians will spend this money reasonably well and:
    1. enrol their kids in more after school programs.....
    2. begin to purchase a higher percentage of organic produce vs the cheap GMO stuff
    3. purchase a newer car, SUV or half ton truck
    4. do renovations to their homes
    5. hire landscapers to do certain projects on their properties
    6. pay down their debt loads, especially the higher interest ones
    7. buy a new home rather than renting
    8. buy a cottage outside the city so that they can get away for weekends
    9. many will choose to move to rural Canada in order to escape relatively hectic city life
    10. eat at nice restaurants more often

    11. I also believe that a significant percentage of Canadian women who would have chosen to have an abortion under the present economic situation will CHOOSE to keep their babies as opposed to having an abortion!

    I suspect that less than ten percent of Canadians will attempt to live off this five hundred dollars / month and simply use it to drink or smoke more.
    To whatever degree this happens the worst cases where these Canadians put themselves and others in danger this can be dealt with by issuing food stamps vs a monthly check.
     
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  6. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Isn't it intriguing that similar groups of people to those who talked Canada's P. M. Pierre E. Trudeau in 1974 into
    scrapping a brilliant central banking system, probably to supposedly prevent inflation, themselves go and
    create seven hundred and ten trillion dollars worth of Derivatives back in 2014???

    Did P. M. Pierre E. Trudeau save the world environment?


    "Neo-Malthusianism" is a concern that overpopulation may increase resource depletion or environmental degradation to a degree that is not sustainable with the potential of ecological collapse or other hazards.[citation needed]

    P. M. Pierre E. Trudeau's error has costed Canadian taxpayers over one point one trillion in interest payments since then.
     
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  7. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It will mean nothing-at-all to rich Canadians - so why waste that portion of the money allocated?

    The Finnish just "finished" a rather broad experiment with guaranteed-income for those below a particular revenue-minimum. It was well appreciated by those who had a roof over their head and heating during winter.

    What happened to most of them? They "graduated" out of the program because they found decently paid jobs with revenues far above the amounts they had been "given"..

    If done correctly, such a program avoids being a "give-away" as repeatedly announced by Rightist Wankers. It is simply an "investment in human nature" to kick-start people who need it. And, it works!

    It is far, far more effective usage of Federal Spending than upon Toys-for-our-boys at the DoD ...
     
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  8. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, not at all. They are devout Muslims. In fact, so devout that they become fanatically attached to the religion.

    Like most religions, we humans make a mockery of them by insisting upon their purity & goodness. I'll believe that nonsense when God returns to earth and we can have a good chat about the subject ...

    Like it or not, the Communists Regimes did more for the benefit of Russians that any dynasty of Tsars and their rich "friends" who owned most of the land and made their fortunes in that manner. Unfortunately the Commies who put a stop to that became autocratic in their own manner. By means of a profound belief that what they were doing was for the benefit of the country and the people. The people began to feel however - when compared to European lifestyles - that theirs was not the least bit comparable. They were not starving, but neither were they leading comparable lifestyles.

    What happened as a consequence had to happen. It's a shame that Russia went on to be run by a bunch of Ex-Commie Mafiosi who have all enriched themselves to the detriment of their own people. That reckoning is yet to come - and it will be bloody as all such reckonings are inevitably.

    The pent-up anger bursts into bloodshed ...
     
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  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Now I personally think that truly devout Muslims would have at least
    some questions regarding hierarchy of scripture and would be aware of
    these other Suras:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...n-for-the-holy-land-hebrew-and-arabic.530301/

    Sura 29:46;


     
  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The reason to send it to all Canadians is to eliminate the need for a bureaucracy
    that becomes so powerful that they keep poorer Canadians dependent on them.

    Plus.... this would be taxable and higher income Canadians would end up keeping a smaller portion of the Basic Income Supplement anyway.

    A Basic Minimum Income created in the manner that the Bank of Canada was used from 1938 to 1974 would actually become a cash cow for all levels of government and in theory could quickly eliminate the deficit and begin paying down of our national debt.

    Theoretically.. .we could soon be operating in the black rather than in the red.
     
  11. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    True enough. It might also show to your neighbors south of you how blockheaded they can be about such a worthwhile social-mechanism.

    See Canadian historical unemployment rate. Given today's economic-structure "up-north", you (plural) are doing about as well as you can. More could be done nonetheless to get the rate down to the 3/4% range.

    [​IMG]
    None the less, this looks like a promising electoral promise from your Liberal Party here:
    We could only hope one day to see that happen in the US, where the average "state school" university education costs $14K a year - clearly out of the range for any American family below the poverty threshold of $25K (for a family of four) ...
     
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  12. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not one for "historical revelations" though I do admire history for what it tells us about the evolution of Human Relations and Beliefs.

    You should note that that "Christianity" - even though predominant in Western cultures - is just one more religion on earth. From here:
    The other half of the world believes a variety of other religions. The belief in a Supreme Being is very human in nature ...
     
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  13. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    MARKET CONSOLIDATION

    I most certainly hope this is indicative of the mentality presently in the minds of American students - but I suspect is unique to a very small group of young people.

    These "kids" (pardon the expression because they are young-adults able to vote) in America seem to think that low unemployment and high pay-scales is a "given".

    History tells us that such a notion "aint necessarily so".

    HISTORICAL FACT

    The reality of today is that we, the sheeple, have either never learned or simply forgot our economic-history of the late 19th and early 20th century, when the anti-trust laws had been passed. Our economy at the turn of the 19th century had rushed-up to a very high level of concentration by a whirlwind of market-consolidations (by means of "Trusts") perpetrated in a very large sector of the American economy.

    Americans somehow think the fact that the filthy-rich are "Wunderkind' and deserve rightly to own their part of the 1% of American wealth. Do see this chart here - which I am unable to post - of "The one percent of the one percent". It will amaze you by showing the very high concentration of wealth by a select few-families in America.

    Which along with group Prime-Member (Donald Dork) is doing its damndest to assure that "nothing changes" in the US: The rich get richer and the poor can go to hell ...
     
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  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your reply is so good and so encouraging that I just had to quote you over here:


    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ional-leadership-race.564180/#post-1071168716

    For the record the atmosphere at the People's Party of Canada is the most open and honest that I have ever seen in a political party and I am on my fourth one to be a member of. Andrew at the Guelph office of the PPC admitted that their E. D.A. (Electoral District Association) had been discussing a Basic Minimum Income and one of the Calgary E. D. A. members let me know that economist Miltron Friedman had put forward this idea decades ago.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
  15. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My theory at this time is that the Ancient of Days the Father and the Comforter - Holy Sprit as
    introduced by Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus are rabidly UNIVERSALIST but........
    they know that we human beings..... and even the angels could not have had that
    explained to us....... revealed to us too soon.......
    or we would go off into the darkness even worse than we already did?????

    I am of the belief that our ideas on spirituality - salvation - the long term plans of
    the Creator for each of us strangely mirror our ideas on economics -education -
    health care - job creation - and the distribution of wealth.

    For example Dr. Moses Coady was Roman Catholic and believed that there was some
    hope for the literal dead.... .and he also believed that there was hope for the economically
    nearly dead.... the very poor of our region. The Antigonish Movement is named after a town
    that is about seventy kms from where I live and only about thirty kms from where I grew up.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigonish_Movement

     
  16. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As you like, but I am having none of it.

    All that counts is a belief of the moment in which we live. All the rest is unverifiable history. And the future is a far greater mystery that will affect our lives more than any "story" from the past. Meaning that which is important is how well we lie today and tomorrow and from then on. For which there is an OECD metric*.

    None of which makes for good religion that should interfere with current laws regarding human behaviour in general or our personal lives. Yes, religious belief is a sacred-right but not one more so than another.

    Thankfully, the developed world has come around to that sad fact - that is, whatever the religion and as long as it does not interfere generally in our daily-lives then let it be practiced.

    Far more important, however, to our lives is making a good living and no religion on earth can guaranty that key factor of our existence ...

    *OECD "Better life index" here.
     
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  17. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    See here in an interview by Playboy (of all magazines!) what Friedman had to say (in 1973). Namely that the minimum wage law was the worst of any kind in the US.

    Did that remark do any good? Nope, we trundled ahead into the abyss with the election of Reckless Ronnie and now Donald Dork. Neither of which give/gave a fig for the Minimum Wage (then and still today at $7.25 an hour, or around $3000 per year), whilst Friedman's message was that it could save humans from poverty if related to actual Costs-of-Living!

    There is what is called the Living Wage, which is important to note as a guideline. As of last year the actual cost-of-living wage was as shown here in dollars per year at around $16/hour ($33.3K annually).

    More data from MIT:
    In fact, as regards the Poverty Threshold (watched by the Census Bureau) it is set - for a family of four - at around $25K a year. Which means the poorest states in the US are typically also the most rural where such a wage is most prevalent.

    Yes, even as regards the Living Wage, Uncle Sam is why behind the times. For what, to keep minimum-wages low in order to maintain high-profits?

    You tell me ...

    PS: In Canada all those numbers above are quite likely to be different. For instance, the actual Minimum Wage "up north" is 11.06 CAD per hour - and its Living Wage for an individual in Canada averaged 1877.50 CAD/Month - and stats show that Canadians work around 36 hours per week.
     
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  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you for that link.....
    I am thinking that a Basic Minimum Income here in Canada could play a huge role in
    making Canadians safer because......... felons convicted of a violent crime
    could be sued..... and a part.... .or all... . of their Basic Minimum Income could
    end up going to their victims!

    This could become a major incentive for historically violent criminals to change their ways?


    http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/safety/
    I am also certain that this would make a Canadian mother's womb a much safer environment for the unborn as well.

    Would a Basic Minimum Income dramatically reduce abortions?

     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  19. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, not likely. Abortions are practiced very heavily amongst the lowest-levels (of income) of any country. Abortion typically goes hand in hand with level of income, ie, with more abortion at the lower-levels.

    What would do best to modify them is "education" - which I insist will pull the people out of poverty and into a middle-class existence.

    Were that possible, I suspect lesser educated women would take more "pills" and avoid pregnancy. As they do in more developed nations. From here: Nearly half of women who have abortions live below the federal poverty level

    It is their right. But it all depends upon how a country makes (or not) abortions legal. For instance, a fetus (in France) is not yet an unborn child until the age of 10 weeks. That is the law in this Very Catholic Country of France and to abort a child (beyond the tenth week of gestation) is indeed illegal here ...
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  20. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    After some thought, I must come back to your question.

    No doubt the above would have an impact on the very lowest levels of income. But, the higher up the Income Ladder you go - the less a woman may want to abort.

    I'm not a woman, so I really don't know how women feel. I just think logically that poor-women do indeed want to get married and have a solid-relationship in which to bring up a child.
    Poor women may not be all that educated, but the simple notion that bringing-up-a-baby all alone must impact the female mentality. They must understand that their financial future during the 12/15/18 years that they might have the child under their roof requires the means with which to cope.

    In fact, I'd very much like to see some women respond to the question ... !
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  21. Woolley

    Woolley Well-Known Member

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    No way the economy can grow and taxes outpace spending to pay down the debt. No way. Paying it down would slow down any recovery or expansion of the economy making it a drag on whatever growth spurs that expansion. The deficit will take one of two courses. It will keep growing or it will be paid down by fiat money through legislation. Those are the only two options folks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
  22. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That above in red is sheer nonsense. When each National Budget is increased, then the money-supply MUST EXPAND to do so. (Salaries have to go somewhere, and they go into private bank-accounts - meaning ipso facto the money-supply expands.)

    The US national debt is NOT based upon a seriously flawed financial-system. Flawed meaning that it does not work properly.

    It works fine, but it is the expansion of the debt-load that the Federal Reserve must support and does so today by churning old-debt to obtain new-debt.

    That churning of the debt-load has lasted a long time:
    [​IMG]

    It all started around 2002, and has steadily continued ever since. Whyzzat?

    Because each PotUS in succession found it easier to not to stop it.

    Besides, Obama was handed on-a-platter the Great Recession that he handled by kick-starting the American economy by means of government-spending. (And thus increasing the National Debt - but for a good cause.) In 2008, as seen above, when he entered office, that debt started exploding.

    Since then, the US has lost control because it has simply churned the debt and made no attempt at reduction. Donald Dork exacerbated the problem by lowering upper-income taxation, which happened when on December 22, 2017 when Trump signed the "Tax Cuts and Jobs Act". (Jobs, me arse!) Which triggered donations from the ultra-rich to his reelection.

    Which resulted in exacerbating of the far-too-acute national-debt problem. Trump then expanded the problem by increasing the national Discretionary Budget and increasing the DoD's portion of the budget. It is now at 57% (see here), which is a high-mark for a budget when the US is not at war.

    It's time to come back to earth for us earthlings. Which means, National Budget-wise, to cut Defense Spending and place those expenditures where they do the most good for the most people. My suggestions: National Health Care and nearly-free Postsecondary Education.

    Worse yet if we do not do so: This evolution-of-ages* is today requiring a much higher skill-set than in the past, which fundamentally means the advanced skills necessary can only be obtained by means of a postsecondary education ...

    *Of which the principle driving-motor is the Internet.
     
  23. Quadhole

    Quadhole Well-Known Member

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    We are at 103% right now. Of course the more the crooks take over at the top, the more you cant believe the numbers. Debt is GROWING faster than ever before under the KING of DEBT.
     
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  24. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good stuff!

    But, what is it that you would propose to stop the spiral upwards? Iow, where is the spending bleeding most for the least return?

    To my mind, it is pure-and-simple government spending on Debt-Support. Iow, a sort of national-mortgage that needs regular payment. Because national expenditures are far too high, and need to be seriously reversed!

    And which component of expenditures is the guilty-party? The DoD ... !
    [​IMG]

    Note in the above how Veterans Affairs obtains as much or more of the budget than either Health&Human Services or Education ... !
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  25. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps they do, but that has nothing to do with the principles of Economics, of which is the primary discussion in any "economic forum".

    And, as regards that matter, until I see otherwise demonstrated, most of the oil is going to theocratic Muslim hierarchies. Not to any Middle-east country that has a open theocratic principles. Which are all run by age-old religious factions.

    Anybody and everybody believes in whatever god they want, but it should never ever influence economic activity.

    An economy is a function of extreme complexity, but there is no place in it for "God's Will". Which is an entirely private matter between the individual and whatever deity (or otherwise) in which s/he cares to believe ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019

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