Enlisted Military Ranks as one of the worst jobs

I have to wonder what has changed since I was handling these trials back in the 1970's.

Back then the civilian courts had no jurisdiction over military members.

Thanks for the links to the cites @APACHERAT .

 

I asked an Army colonel who was a friend of our family what he thought of enlisting versus going thru and officer's commissioning program (there are 3 that I know of -- academy, ROTC/NROTC, and OCS).

He said the difference was like wine and dirt.

I replied, "you mean wine and water right?"

He said, "No, I meant wine and dirt!"

 

Things have changed big time. I was working on a project at the MCAS El Toro during the 80's and after having lunch at the OC I had some business to take care of at the Provost Marshals Office. This is when I learned there was no longer a correctional custody brig at El Toro. Why have a brig if there's nobody to put in the brig ? The MP's said if they need a CC brig they use the Camp Pendleton brig.

Today the Navy and Marine Corps only has one correctional custody brig to serve all of California, Arizona, Nevada basically the South West, MCAS Miramar brig.

No more red line brigs, they all were declared politically incorrect during the late 1970's.

When I was a short timer in early 71 I was TAD for about six weeks to the Camp Pendleton Provost Marshal's Office. I was just a chaser. My job was to pick up sailors and Marines at the local county jails in SoCal who were arrested by local law enforcement and transport them back to the PMO at Pendelton.

Most were deserters or were UA. Back in the day local LE apprehended 90% of the deserters. During the 60's depending with the local LE agency policy if you were pulled over by the cops and you were 18 years of age or older they just didn't just ask for your drivers license but also wanted to see your draft card. No draft card you better have a liberty pass or you were going to jail. If you weren't in the military and you were a draft dodger you were turned over to the FBI. If you were in the military and didn't have a liberty pass or were AWOL you were turned over the the military.

There were way more than a few Marines I picked up who were busted by local LE for being drunk in public or for DUI and they were just turned over to the military to deal with what ever offense they were arrested for. And it was the unit commander who decided if any punishment would be delivered.

During the era most military bases in California wouldn't enforce California's minimum drinking age which was 21. So if you were 18 you could get **** faced at the EM Club.

I remember one morning when four Marines in our company were missing from morning formation. They were accounted for...they were in the PMO brig waiting to be delivered to the company CO.

The night before they had a beer bash on the Oceanside beach that got out of hand and were busted by the Oceanside PD who turned them over to the MP's.

They stood before the man and nothing happened. No Article 15 was entered in their SRB. The next morning formation the CO appeared and made it clear, if your old enough to go to Vietnam, you're old enough to drink beer. Then he said if your going to get **** faced, do it in the clubs on base not off base in public or at least don't get caught.

 

That is correct. You hit full power as you hit the deck in case you miss.

When a pilot misses the wire and has to go around again (back in the pattern) it is called a Bolter. Usually when a plane misses, the Air Boss will call it out... "Bolter, Bolter, Bolter"... 3 times to make sure everyone knows the plane missed and will need to try again.

We had a pilot that bolstered so many times we had to launch a tanker to gas him up. In his defense, it was pretty nasty weather. Talked to him afterwards and he was pretty angry as well as shaken up. His pride got bruised but he was a good pilot and took the ribbing all in stride.

Pilots actually keep a "greenie" board inside their respective "Ready Rooms" that evaluate their lands and which wire they catch.

 

Yeah, after basic training and initial training, you went to your permanent base and it was more like a 9-5 job. No marching, no inspections, no pushups. Shoot an M-16 once a year with a .22 LR adapter and run a mile once a year. This was 75-79 for me. I liked it at first, but got a real AH for a shop chief who didn't care how hard we had to work for him to get his E8 stripe. That pretty much killed my desire to make it a career. I also resented guys with half my intelligence bossing me around because they had one more stripe. I made E5 in under four years and decided I could do better. I did see how much better you are treated in general once hitting E5, but I wasn't sticking around and I wasn't taking any chances. I saw what happens to someone if you get on the wrong side of someone higher up and a simple mistake that could get you fired from a civilian job can ruin your life if you get court martial.

 

Wow, Garrison seemed to be easy for you guys. We had formation every day, inspections, random PT after a long night of drinking. Then if we're lucky, we cut the grass using our E tools during work parties or "police" cigarette butts

 

If it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move, pick it up. If you can't pick it up, paint it.

 

Haha oh that brings me back

 

From my sources, the worst, most stressful job is going to be an low-ranking grunt during a combat deployment.

However, there are infantry grunts, then there the POG's, the persons other than grunts, the REMF's, the Fobbits. That gives the stressful grunts the right to feel better about themselves---to feel more honorable.

As far as the pecking order of who is most superior:

Delta/Devgru Seal Team 6
Navy Seals
Green Berets
MARSOC
Rangers
Marines
Army infantry
Fobbits
Cops

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

OK.

Delta, SEAL Team 6, Navy SEAL's, Green Berets and MARCO are heavily dependent on the regular Army, Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force support and can't operate independently. Special Ops is dependent on combat arms support and the REMF's.

On the battlefield during a real conventional war the above wouldn't survive on the battlefield against an enemy who had a real army, navy and air force. These special operations forces are organized, armed and equipped differently than a grunt infantry battalion.

Navy SEAL's have little training in Infantryman 101 and those other who did go through infantry training and found themselves in special operations forgot Infantry 101 very quickly.

Special Ops are more in the snoop and poop business and conducting raids where as real grunts seek out the enemy, engage the enemy and hold ground that they took away from the enemy.

A Marine rifle battalion or Army infantry battalion can be deployed into combat and is capable of operating independently. Special Ops isn't capable of being independent on the battlefield.

 

An area of service in all branches, but particularly the Air Force and Navy, are those who enlist and testing shows my have an aptitude for electronics and computers. If so, regardless of what other roles they would be good at or thought they would have, they almost certainly will be put into intense courses in those areas, and at least in the AF informed it they don't make it through testing they will be kicked out of the AF. There is a huge and growing shortage of such technicians as systems become more and more complex and computer/electronic critical.

Some truly can not handle the demands - whether be they literally do not have the aptitude, are not of a personality to handle massive loads of learning and memory, but unlike other jobs they can't quit either. It'd be like bringing in a high school grade who testing shows is rather intelligent, and then tossing 250 page long books on calculus, quantum mechanics, and wave theory, informing that person that 30 days from now if that person does not make at least a 95 on tests for all three they are going to get booted out - and if too low booted out with a "less than honorable" too. They push those young people HARD.

In short, another stress load are those who do not understand that joining up they own you and they will put you where ever they want to, regardless of what any recruiter told you. For some, this becoming hyper technical education is far more than they can handle.

 

A fairly high up AF teckie we know very well who also often has been on flights over combat zones and under missile attack now and then was recently offered to switch to the Army to go for being a helicopter pilot under what was called a "blue goes green" program of the Army.

Sounded cool, but the response was - as I was told: "Helicopters get shot down, don't they? They can fire all the missiles they want at my plane way up there and they're just wasting their time.The only explosions I hear in my plane is the defensive systems going off. Very loud. Wakes me up every time. But in a helicopter wouldn't the sound of an explosive be even louder because it would be the sound of me being blown up?"

That was a thanks but no thanks.

 

You're wrong. The jobs in every unit differ. You can be a Navy SEAL serving coffee in Whatever-stan for 2 months because RI overstacked, while Average Joe 11B in the Army is taking enemy fire on weekly patrols and getting to engage.

Every unit has their crappy jobs. "Delta" as the civilians call it, would probably not run into any of those issues based on the vast training of the Green Berets. Also, SEALs and Green Berets have COMPLETELY different missions, so it's impossible to compare them.

 

????????????????????????????

 

Phase 3 of SEAL training is 7 weeks of Infantry training (urban, mountain, everything we as 11Bs trained), and then Unit-Level training is 6 months of specializing infantry training.

SEALs got way more "infantry 101" than we did in OSUT

 

Even though this thread is about stressful jobs. I made a list of "Who's the most tactical." Who, MAN for MAN is the greatest warfighter, the biggest badass.

When Blackwater or Triple Canopy select private contractors, they use something close to my list to choose the pecking order.

 

As I said, it's the guys in ground combat taking fire that will be rightly the most stressed.

As I quoted above, my basic list covered who are the best warfighters, or who are expected to be the best.

BTW, SEALS and Green Berets have been used to fill each other's places on missions. They are fairly comparable.

 

That list you made can be very interchangeable depending on the mission

 

Yes, in certain instances, but they are completely different units with entirely different SMs

 

I'd like to see your list of who you think are the best US warfighters, by unit type or MOS or whatever. Or even a list of most stressful warfighters.

 

calm down, my list would be similar to your list. But it would depend on what my mission was. For many missions, I might not need some tactical super hoah green beret to pay an enormous amount of money when I could use a ranger who are specialized in quick reaction infantry.

 

Remember Panama in 1989 (Just Cause) when Navy SEAL's were used as infantry to attack and hold Patilla Field ? The SEAL community don't like being remembered about it.

A Marine rifle company could have accomplished the same mission in half of the time with less casualties.

Remember Tora Bora ?

"Infantry 101" would have called for one infantry regiment making a sweep towards the Pakistan border and inserting another conventional infantry regiment up near the Pakistan border as a blocking force.

Establishing a blocking force is "infantry 101" for any offensive assault or search and destroy mission.

So how did Bin Laden escape from Tora Bora into Pakistan ?

For almost ten years my buddies and I would ask that question most being Vietnam combat vets. Why wasn't a blocking force established ?

Ends up there was a blocking force, Army Special Forces. (Green Berets)

Here's how I would have done it. I would have used either the 5th Marines or the 7th Marine regiment making the sweep up the Tora Bora and inserting the entire Army's 75th Ranger regiment as a blocking force on the Pakistan border.

Bin Laden would have been eliminated in 2001.

When the Army formed the Air Cavalry they were suppose to be used like horse cavalry, basically being used as a blocking force.

But Army field commanders in Vietnam not knowing horse cavalry tactics started using the Air Cav as regular infantry.

The Marine Corps did the same with the Marine 1st Recon Battalion in Vietnam. (Not to be confused with the 1st Force Recon Company.)

Force Recon mission is snoop and poop and not to engage the enemy. If they found themselves in a firefight, they ****ed up.

Marine Recon battalions conduct snoop and poop missions but mostly they seek out the enemy, engage the enemy not trying to defeat the enemy but to determine the size, how well equipped they are and getting a feeling if they were any good. Then they would didi (fall back) and report what they learned then the regular grunts would move in and engage the enemy and kill them.

But I talked to many Marines who served with the 1st Marine Recon Bat. and they weren't happy campers because they were being used as ordinary infantry.

The TOE of a Marine or Army infantry infantry squad, platoon, company, battalion, etc. are completely different than Navy SEAL's, Army Special Forces or Delta Force.

 

Yea I understand the missions, but SEALs can be used as Infantrymen just as easily if they needed to. They're more trained in it than I am.

 

Actually let me rephrase my last response. They aren't more trained in 11B sophistications, but as a force. They don't spend every FTX doing infantry stuff the whole time, in that sense, you're completely right