Evidence that the Holocaust DIDN'T happen?

Discussion in 'Zionist Agenda' started by Ronstar, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From what I've seen (or briefly researched) the argument is not that it didn't happen, but rather that certain aspects of it that are commonly claimed did not happen.
    It becomes a little confusing because Allied and Soviet war propaganda at the time was a little bit sensational and might not have accurately represented everything.
    And the conditions were much better at a few of the camps than others. (And possible selection bias because we wouldn't hear many stories from the ones who were at the worst places where they did not survive)
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2020
  2. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't like Nazis or Neo Nazis either but I'm tired of relentless slander of and extortion from the German people by the greedy liars in the Holocaust Industry based on myths.

    Countless thousands of innocent Germans have been murdered after show "trials" for killing people in mythical "gas chambers" just as thousands more have been murdered for participating in an equally fictitious "Final Solution" that was based on relocation, not a genocidal agenda.

    Meanwhile, the extortion from today's Germans continues(1) after Germany has already paid out $Billions if not $Trillions to the same greedy crooks.

    It's long past time to expose the standard holocaust narrative for the fraudulent conspiracy theory that it is.


    (1) “Holocaust survivor wants compensation from Germany for rail journeys to death camps”
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/31/europe/german-railway-holocaust-scli-intl/index.html
     
  3. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course I deny things that do not exist and never did.

    In this and related threads, I've already submitted more than enough hard evidence that neither existed.

    I cannot and will not slander the German people and distort the truth with holocaustian lies and residual Allied propaganda based on what a few a few Neo Nazis and anti Semites may think of me.

    The truth is more important than a popularity contest.
     
  4. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm glad you brought up the Allied and Soviet war propaganda that, along with hearsay and Hollywood form the foundation of the holocaust story.
    Many people are naive enough to believe that only the "other" side used propaganda while British, US and Soviet atrocity propaganda was far more prevalent than anything that Goebbels was able to crank out.

    For example, the rumors of "homicidal gas chambers" are just as fraudulent as less durable holocaust related lies for which thousands of innocent German POWs were executed in show "trials" for using mythical "homicidal steam chambers", "electrocution chambers", a "human vaporizer" (1), the "Conveyor belt of death"(2) and other mythical contraptions that were purely Allied fabricated propaganda.

    The mythical homicidal gas chamber had its roots in rumors spread by Polish resistance fighters and then was picked up by Allied propagandists then spread as leaflets(3) around Auschwitz.

    The fraudulent Holocaust Industry eventually admitted that it was lying about the homicidal steam, electrocution chambers, "Conveyor belt of Death" but continues to lie about equally outrageous homicidal gas chambers in spite of the fact that not one exists of the hundreds of gas chambers that would have been needed to execute "millions of people".

    Thanks,



    (1) "Auschwitz: Myths and Facts"
    http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

    EXCERPT "At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief US prosecutor Robert Jackson charged that the Germans had used a "newly invented" device to instantaneously "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no trace left of them." [8] No reputable historian now accepts either of these fanciful tales."CONTINUED


    (2) "Auschwitz Electrical Conveyor belt of Death"
    https://disjecta.wordpress.com/2018/01/26/auschwitz-electrical-conveyor-belt-of-death/

    EXCERPT "It’s a little known fact that running alongside the scientifically implausible gas chambers at Auschwitz ran the electrified conveyor belts of death. These industrialised slaughter belts, we can assume took the passive cargo directly from the “cattle cars” and electrocuted the hapless victims without struggle then disposed of the evidence in Nazi furnaces. One can only guess at the “special devices” for killing children. Somehow visions of Willy Wonka’s Chocolate/extermination factory spring to mind."CONTINUED


    (3) “Auschwitz: Myths and Facts”
    http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

    EXCERPT “Allied Propaganda

    The Auschwitz gassing story is based in large part on the hearsay statements of former Jewish inmates who did not personally see any actual signs of extermination. Their beliefs are understandable, because rumors about gassings at Auschwitz were widespread. Allied planes dropped large numbers of leaflets, written in Polish and German, on Auschwitz and the surrounding areas which claimed that people were being gassed in the camp. The Auschwitz gassing story, which was an important part of the Allied wartime propaganda effort, was also broadcast to Europe by Allied radio stations. [15] CONTINUED

    15. Nuremberg document NI-11696. NMT "green series," Vol. 8, p. 606.
     
  5. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    So the ovens were for baking bread?
     
  6. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    Nope, you're a victim of professional liars who turned you into a Holocaust denier like themselves. I cannot understand why someone does believe the absurd claims of these so-called "revisionists". But you'll know why you trust them.

    That's right. Also, the truth never hurts good people, only the bad guys. This is why Neo-Nazis and Hitler-Fans prefer Holocaust "revisionism" over real history.
     
  7. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    Holocaust deniers claim that the death rate in the camps was so high due to typhus and similar deadly diseases.

    But how could they have known that before, as they started building the crematoria?

    If they knew it before, this means deliberate epidemic mass murder. This is no better than mass murder using poison gas or bullets.
     
  8. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As ominous as they may look, the crematoria were built to save lives, not take them because the water table around Auschwitz is too high to permit burial in the ground of typhus ridden bodies without contaminating the ground water.

    The Germans were aware of Allied propaganda myths about human "vaporizers"(1), a "Conveyor belt of Death"(2) , homicidal steam, electrocution and gas chambers(3) but built the crematoria in spite of the image they might project.

    For example:

    "In order to put a stop to the epidemics, we were forced to burn the bodies of incalculable numbers of people who had been destroyed by disease. We were therefore forced to build crematoria, and on this account they are knotting a noose for us."

    Heinrich Himmler

    21 April 1945

    Gerald Reitlinger, The Final Solution, 2nd ed., Vallentine, Mitchell, London, 1968, p. 521. AlsoMoment (Jewish monthly published in Boston),
    vol. 11, no. 1, Dec. 1985, p. 51.
    - - - - - - - - -

    In spite of lies generated by the fraudulent Holocaust Industry(4), no more than 70,000 people died at Auschwitz - Birkenau.

    Some were executed by shooting or hanging but even Arno Mayer admits that more people died of disease than were executed.

    The fact that "only" about 70,000 died at A-B of all causes is confirmed by the death ledger captured by the Soviets.

    Additional records show that there was never enough coal/coke at A-B to cremate more than that number of people.

    Finally, the fraudulent Holocaust Industry claims that about 1.1 million people were murdered at A-B but no mass graves exist to show that anywhere near that number were cremated and disposed of.

    The Holocaust Industry and complicit Hollywood propagandists have been caught perpetuating innumerable frauds and telling innumerable lies about "human skin lampshades", "human fat soap", "human skin pocketbooks", shrunken heads, homicidal gas chambers etc over the years so why should we believe profitable myths about "6 million Jews killed" and grisly execution methods when no hard evidence of them exists?

    Fictional stories told by fame and money hungry "eyewitnesses"(5) are certainly not hard evidence and certainly not enough to blame the German people of such a horrific crime as fabricated by Hollywood and the profit seeking Holocaust Industry.

    Thanks,


    (1) "Auschwitz: Myths and Facts"
    http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

    EXCERPT "At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief US prosecutor Robert Jackson charged that the Germans had used a "newly invented" device to instantaneously "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no trace left of them." [8] No reputable historian now accepts either of these fanciful tales."CONTINUED


    (2) "Auschwitz Electrical Conveyor belt of Death"
    https://disjecta.wordpress.com/2018/01/26/auschwitz-electrical-conveyor-belt-of-death/

    EXCERPT "It’s a little known fact that running alongside the scientifically implausible gas chambers at Auschwitz ran the electrified conveyor belts of death. These industrialised slaughter belts, we can assume took the passive cargo directly from the “cattle cars” and electrocuted the hapless victims without struggle then disposed of the evidence in Nazi furnaces. One can only guess at the “special devices” for killing children. Somehow visions of Willy Wonka’s Chocolate/extermination factory spring to mind."CONTINUED



    (3) “Auschwitz: Myths and Facts”
    http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

    EXCERPT “Allied Propaganda

    The Auschwitz gassing story is based in large part on the hearsay statements of former Jewish inmates who did not personally see any actual signs of extermination. Their beliefs are understandable, because rumors about gassings at Auschwitz were widespread. Allied planes dropped large numbers of leaflets, written in Polish and German, on Auschwitz and the surrounding areas which claimed that people were being gassed in the camp. The Auschwitz gassing story, which was an important part of the Allied wartime propaganda effort, was also broadcast to Europe by Allied radio stations. [15] CONTINUED

    15. Nuremberg document NI-11696. NMT "green series," Vol. 8, p. 606.


    (4) "17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE"
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U

    EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED


    (5) "Could there be anything more twisted than these Holocaust fantasists? How more and more people are making up memoirs about witnessing Nazi crimes"
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...le-making-memoirs-witnessing-Nazi-crimes.html

    EXCERPT "Unfortunately, despite all these examples, publishers are still wilfully selling suspect memoirs based on the Holocaust and the war.

    No doubt there will be more books of this type. With publishers fighting it out to sell the latest tale of World War II derring-do, or Holocaust misery, it seems unlikely this is a genre that will die out.

    Anybody reading these books should stop and ask themselves whether what they hold in their hands is, in fact, true." CONTINUED
     
  9. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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  10. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am equally perplexed as to why anyone could believe the standard holocaust narrative that has so little basis in fact.
    In that respect, I feel that it is you who are the victim of truly professional and enormously well funded liars that include Hollywood and the fraudulent Holocaust Industry.(1)

    We've discussed this topic for months and I appreciate the fact that you have not resorted to name calling like most desperate holocaustians do when confronted by the truth about what was named "The Holocaust" in the 1960s.

    Over this period of time, I have stated numerous facts and supported them with credible sources. At the same time, I've asked you to explain how various holocaust myths could be true when refuted by hard evidence but you have chosen not to answer.

    For example, if about 850,000 people were executed at Treblinka, buried, dug up, burned with a huge amount of fuel and reburied, why is there no evidence of any mass grave(2), (3) of what would have to be several huge mass graves?

    Additionally, if about 6 million Jews were murdered during the WW2 era, why do Jewish sources report that the world's Jewish population grew by almost 4 million(4)?

    Finally, if Germany's National Socialists wanted to murder all of Europe's Jews, why were Jews among the high ranking members of both the Nazi Party(5) and Germany's military(6)?

    In addition to having known, lived with and worked with dozens of honest holocaust survivors, WW2 survivors, and WW2 Veterans from both sides, I have done a fair amount of research on this topic for over 60 years. It's for these reasons that I cannot believe what is possibly the greatest conspiracy theory ever.

    Enjoy your weekend.



    (1) "17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE"
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U

    EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED


    (2) “Treblinka: Revealing the hidden graves of the Holocaust”
    https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16657363

    EXCERPT “Despite this, in a later statement they said they had discovered no mass graves.

    The existence of mass graves was known about from witness testimony, but the failure to provide persuasive physical evidence led some to question whether it could really be true that hundreds of thousands of Jews were killed here.” CONTINUED


    (3) "Treblinka Ground Radar Examination Finds No Trace of Mass Graves"
    https://www.historiography-project.com/jhrchives/v19/v19n3p20_radar.php

    EXCERPT "The team carefully examined the entire Treblinka II site, especially the alleged “mass graves” portion, and carried out control examinations of the surrounding area. They found no soil disturbance consistent with the burial of hundreds of thousands of bodies, or even evidence that the ground had ever been disturbed. In addition, Krege and his team found no evidence of individual graves, bone remains, human ashes, or wood ashes." CONTINUED


    (4) "Was there Really a Holocaust?"
    https://www.biblebelievers.org.au/wasthere.htm

    EXCERPT "The World Almanac for 1947 states that back in 1939 the world Jewish population was 15,688,259. The Almanac's figures were supplied by the American Jewish Committee. Next the Jewish-owned New York Times of February 22, 1948 stated the world Jewish population for that year amounted "to 15,600,000 to 18,700,000 in addition to the 600,000 to 700,000 living in Palestine." How could the Jewish population increase so rapidly over the war years if they had lost 6,000,000 people?"CONTINUED


    (5)"List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazis_of_non-Germanic_descent

    EXCERPT "Notably, there were several high-ranking Nazis of full and partial Jewish descent."CONTINUED


    (6) “Hitler’s Jewish Army”
    http://counterpsyops.com/2013/02/14/...-hitlers-army/

    EXCERPT “Thousands of men of Jewish descent and hundreds of what the Nazis called ‘full Jews’ served in the German military with Adolf Hitler’s knowledge and approval.

    In approximately 20 cases, Jewish soldiers in the Nazi army were awarded(*)Germany’s highest military honor, the Knight’s Cross.

    Jews also served in the Nazi police and security forces as ghetto police(Ordnungdienst)(*)and concentration camp guards(*)(kapos).

    So what happens to the claim that Hitler sought to exterminate all Jews, when he allowed some of them to join in his struggle against Bolshevism and International finance capitalism?

    If the Jews were permitted to serve in Hitler’s armed forces then there could not have been a Holocaust.”CONTINUED
     
  11. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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  12. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    @Heartburn
    Your question was: "Why were those people in those camps?"

    While I'm sure that the reasons varied from person to person, Germany's incarceration centers and work camps were created for much the same reason as America's Japanese internment camps and prison system was built.

    The inmates in the German camps ranged from common criminals such as rapists, murderers, robbers to individuals who were real or perceived threats to Germany's security.

    Those Jews who were not National Socialists party members(1), members of Hitler's military(2) or helpful to Germany's war effort(3) were frequently perceived as threats to Germany's security because of their pro Communist views and/or because of Judea's declaration of war on Germany in 1933(4).

    Additionally, anti German Jews like Theodore Kaufman called for the complete destruction of all Germans by way of forced sterilization in his well received book, "Germany Must Perish"(5).

    It was the expansionist, Westward moving Communist threat that Germany feared most and with Jews comprising 52% (6) of Russia's Communist Party, it was Germany's Jews who were not supportive of Germany that received close scrutiny.

    Allied-Soviet atrocity propaganda has, with the enormous efforts of the fraudulent Holocaust Industry, succeeded in deceiving many people that most of the German run camps were "Death Camps" however, there is no hard evidence to support this hate filled myth. Even Holocaust Industry historian, Arno Mayer admits that most Auschwitz deaths were from disease or natural causes, not execution.

    In spite of the shortages of food and medicine, the Red Cross reports:
    EXCERPT "Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire situation as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit in stating that food supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied bombing of German transportation... "CONTINUED(7)

    The same source addresses your question more fully:
    EXCERPT "The Report of the ICRC is of value in that it first clarifies the legitimate circumstances under which Jews were detained in concentration camps, i.e. as enemy aliens. In describing the two categories of civilian internees, the Report distinguishes the second type as “Civilians deported on administrative grounds (in German, Schutzhaftlinge), who were arrested for political or racial motives because their presence was considered a danger to the State or the occupation forces” (Vol. Ill, p. 73). These persons, it continues, “were placed on the same footing as persons arrested or imprisoned under common law for security reasons” (p.74)." CONTINUED(7)

    Finally, I think that it is important to note that, unlike Eisenhower's and Stalins true "Death Camps" there is absolutely no hard evidence of a German genocidal agenda. No where in any of the German run camps were there homicidal steam, electrocution or gas chambers etc as falsely related in Allied atrocity propaganda, Hollywood, and the profit hungry, corrupt Holocaust Industry.

    I hope I have answered your question fully and look forward to hearing your thoughts.

    Thanks,


    (1) "List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazis_of_non-Germanic_descent

    EXCERPT "Notably, there were several high-ranking Nazis of full and partial Jewish descent."CONTINUED


    (2) “Hitler’s Jewish Army”
    http://counterpsyops.com/2013/02/14/...-hitlers-army/

    EXCERPT “Thousands of men of Jewish descent and hundreds of what the Nazis called ‘full Jews’ served in the German military with Adolf Hitler’s knowledge and approval.

    In approximately 20 cases, Jewish soldiers in the Nazi army were awarded(*)Germany’s highest military honor, the Knight’s Cross.

    Jews also served in the Nazi police and security forces as ghetto police(Ordnungdienst)(*)and concentration camp guards(*)(kapos).

    So what happens to the claim that Hitler sought to exterminate all Jews, when he allowed some of them to join in his struggle against Bolshevism and International finance capitalism?

    “If the Jews were permitted to serve in Hitler’s armed forces then there could not have been a Holocaust.”CONTINUED


    (3) "Top 10 Nazi Collaborators Who Were Jews"
    https://listverse.com/2017/01/03/top-10-nazi-collaborators-who-were-jews/


    (4) "Jews Declare War on Germany 1933"

    https://archive.org/stream/JewsDeclareWarOnGermany1933/JewsDeclareWarOnGermany1933_djvu.txt

    EXCERPT "Judea Declares War on Germany!" - Daily Express headline, March 24, 1933.

    "Judea Declares War on Germany! Jews of all the World Unite! Boycott of German Goods!

    Mass Demonstrations!" - These were all headlines in the Daily Express on March 24, 1933.

    "The Israeli people around the world declare economic and financial war against Germany.

    Fourteen million Jews stand together as one man, to declare war against Germany. The Jewish

    wholesaler will forsake his firm, the banker his stock exchange, the merchant his commerce and

    the pauper his pitiful shed in order to join together in a holy war against Hitler's people." - Daily

    Express, March 24, 1933."CONTINUED



    (5) Full text of "Kaufman, Theodore - Germany must Perish (1941)"
    https://archive.org/stream/KaufmanTheodoreGermanyMustPerishEN194135P./Kaufman,+Theodore+-+Germany+must+Perish+(EN,+1941,+35+p.)_djvu.txt

    EXCERPT "Kaufman's fervent proposal for the systematic sterilization of the entire German population was given respectful
    attention in the American press, including reviews in a number of newspapers. A review in the weekly Time
    magazine, March 24, 1941, called Kaufman's plan a "sensational idea." CONTINUED


    (6) Full text of "The Wolf Of The Kremlin biography of Kaganovich"
    https://archive.org/stream/TheWolfOfTheKremlin/The+Wolf+of+the+Kremlin_djvu.txt

    EXCERPT “That Trotsky, unquestionably the most outstanding man among the

    Bolsheviks, was a Jew did not seem an insuperable obstacle in a party”

    in which the percentage of Jews, 52 percent, was rather high compared

    to the percentage of Jews (1.8 percent) in the total population.” CONTINUED


    (7) "Chapter IX — THE JEWS AND THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS A FACTUAL APPRAISAL BY THE RED CROSS"
    https://www.historiography-project.com/books/19740000-did-six-million-really-die/d6mrd09.php
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  13. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    From what you have seen? What does that mean exactly. You think the holocaust denial on this thread and many others or on the internet is limited to arguing accuracy? From what you have seen? Just exactly have you NOT seen. See when you start off with a statement as if your vision or what you choose to see is the basis for your conclusion it comes across as either stupid, arrogant, deliberately selective, presumptous but clearly deliberate in subjectivity from what I can see. You done with the deliberately selective pronouncement justifying the neo Nazi script to justify using questioning the holocaust as a pretext to piss on Jews posing it as innocent reasonble dialogue because its worn thin and the more its used on this thread the stupider it gets given the ensuing comments.

    Next you determined all information on the holocaust was a "little but sensational and might not have accurately represented everything?" You determined? You looked at what? "Allied and Soviet war proaganda"? I call that out as bullshit and say you looked at neo Nazi web sites denying the holocaust not at actual information on the holocaust. There is plenty of neutral objectively obtained evidence that speaks for itself. Nothing in the US Engineering Corps films on the concentration campsd was "sensational" it was fact, cold hard fact. The thousands upon thousand of pages of evidence at the Nuremberg trials were produced by Nazis not Societs or Western allies and from Nazi testimony and survivors and from prison guards. You have no clue what it was and pose as if you are some kind of Judge who reviewed it all.

    The fact you even refer to it as Allied or Soviet war propaganda shows you do not even know where it came from and thagt there is a huge difference between war propaganda and holocaust and war crimes evidence.

    Then you make the absolutely assanine comment with no reference that conditions in some camps were better than others with zero reference and I call you out again as engaging in bull sheeyat. What camps? Give us the names. What did you determine about the conditions of these camps? How did you make these determinations. Please share. You made that up. You tossed it in as a gratuitous aside because you haven't a clue what the names of the concentration camps are. Go on finish it and explain what camps and what evidence do you refer to.

    Finally lets deal with your last and most purile comment in what you state: "we wouldn't hear many stories from the ones who were at the worst places where they did not survive". Who is we? You? Neo nazi wannabe white supremacists? Who is we. You sure as hell do not speak for me. We? You again show how clueless you are on the topic. Many people survived the concentration camps and testified what happened and there evidence was corroborated by prison guards, soldiers who liberated the camps, film, tangible hard evidence including mountains of dead bodies, people who survived long enough to testify, others who did survive, bones, ashes, forensic evidence including paper documents, photographs, objects.

    I am done. Its important when people like you come on to sites to deny the holocaust and make irresponsible comments you are called out as silence condones it but on the other hand you now go onto the ignore list because I believe at this point there just a handful of deniars on this thread using different aliases.

    Your responses clearly show you have no clue about the holocaust, came on this thread to deny it not question its accuracy including making odious statements there were no survivors who witnessed the horrors and lived to explain what happen let alone that hard evidence exists that can not be questioned because its cold hard fact. Ovens with dead bodies, gas chambers, dead bodies stacked, survivors with wounds, injuries, trauma, are a fact. You can deny them all you want and you can deny the evidence all you want but its been saved and it will serve as a legacy to try prevent future crimes.

    As for people like you who live in a vacuum of hatred brought up to hate people like me are around. We come in all colours, sizes, ethnicities, languages and we will defend ourselves and others.
     
  14. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wake Up, "Death"!

    According to an ADL study, only about 1/3 of the world's population believes your fraudulent holocaust myth.

    Because many people questioned live in countries that prohibit "denial" of your fictitious holocaust narrative, I think that is safe to assume that the number of professionally brainwashed holocaustians around the world is even smaller.

    Even better, younger generations are less likely to believe fraudulent nonsense about "6 million Jews murdered" in homicidal "gas chambers" etc so, pretty soon we'll be crating up the world's glut of grisly holocaust theme parks and dumping them at the Knesset front door where they might do some good.


    ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS”
    https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...he-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/

    EXCERPT “ Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts.

    Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth.

    Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust."

    - Hindus were most likely to believe that the number of Holocaust deaths has been exaggerated.

    - people younger than 65 were much more likely to say they believe that facts about the Holocaust have been distorted” CONTINUED
     
  15. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    RE:

    Hearsay and tortured confessions are not "hard evidence" and there are just as many WW2 / holocaust survivors who contradict outright lies about a German genocidal agenda, homicidal gas chambers etc only their testimony(1) is repressed by the fraudulent Hollywood - Holocaust Industry(2) & its complicit MSM.

    You mentioned "film" that served as evidence however you must be so naive as to believe that only the "other" side used propaganda.
    Goebbles' pitiful propaganda operation was nothing compared to Hollywood's(3) ongoing WW2 propaganda campaign that began with Billy Wilder's infamous propaganda hoax, "Death Mills", that featured the long debunked atrocity lies about human skin lampshades, shrunken heads, human fat soap,, human skin pocketbooks.

    I might also add the piles of typhus ridden bodies, too, are not evidence of a genocidal agenda for which there is absolutely no written evidence(4) or mention in intercepted secret German radio transmissions(5).

    You also list "bones, ashes..." that could be of anyone or any time period as evidence that there was a genocidal German agenda however no mass graves have been found that are even closely commensurate with the claimed number of people killed. Two close examinations of Treblinka, however found no mass graves where about 850,000 people are supposed to have been murdered, buried, dug up and burned with an enormous amount of fuel(6), (7).

    So, in spite of your claims to have "hard evidence" that about 11 million people ( 6 million Jews and 5 million "others") were killed in homicidal gas chambers as part of a genocidal agenda, you and your Holocaust Industry have only forged documents(8) and grossly inflated yet profitable fairy tales.




    (1) "Auschwitz Was NOT a 'Death Camp' - Holocaust Survivor Testimony"
    https://archive.org/details/AuschwitzWasNotAdeathCamp-HolocaustSurvivorTestimony

    EXCERPT "Investigations of physical evidence and original documentation, however, have cast doubts on the Holocaust narrative that has been formed. For example, areas claimed to be mass graves, have been found with modern investigative technology to contain no human remains. Testimonies of accused perpetrators show evidence of outright fabrication, or were obtained through torture. Many of the supposed eyewitnesses have provided stories riddled by inconsistencies, describe physically impossible events, or were even total frauds who were never actually in the camps." CONTINUED



    (2)"17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE"
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U

    EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED


    (3) "The Hollywood Directors Who Filmed the Liberation of Nazi Concentration Camps"
    https://hyperallergic.com/426644/lamoth-filming-the-camps-the-holocaust/


    EXCERPT "George Stevens, John Ford, and Samuel Fuller, best known for their work in Hollywood, all documented the Allied liberation at the end of the war.

    But during this period of war, they were acting less as artists than as functionaries of US propaganda and information efforts, working for the US Armed Forces and Secret Services.CONTINUED


    (4) “To the present day a written order by Hitler regarding the destruction of the European Jewish community has not been found, and, in all probability, this order was never given.”

    - Walter Laqueur, Was niemand wissen wollte: Die Unterdruckung der Nachrichten uber Hitlers Endlösung (What Nobody Wanted to Know: The Suppression of News About Hitler’s “Final Solution”), (Berlin-Vienna, 1981), p.190


    (5) “THE HOLOCAUST NARRATIVE”
    https://archive.org/stream/BreakingTheSpell_48/BreakingTheSpell-Kollerstrom_djvu.txt

    EXCERPT “In 1941, British Intelligence analysts cracked the German “Enigma” code. This undermined the German war effort—but also threw new light on day-by-day events in the Nazi concentration camp system. Between January 1942 and January 1943, encrypted radio communications between those camps and the Berlin headquarters were intercepted and decrypted.

    Oddly enough, historians have largely ignored the information furnished in these intercepts relating to “arrivals,” “departures,” recorded deaths and other events at these camps.The only reasonable explanation is that the intercepted data contra-dicts, even refutes, the orthodox “Holocaust” narrative.

    The information does not expose a program of mass murder and racial genocide. Quite the opposite: it reveals that the Germans were determined, desperate even, to reduce the death rate in their work camps, which was caused by catastrophic typhus epidemics.”CONTINUED


    (6) “Treblinka: Revealing the hidden graves of the Holocaust”
    https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16657363

    EXCERPT “Despite this, in a later statement they said they had discovered no mass graves."CONTINUED



    (7) "Treblinka Ground Radar Examination Finds No Trace of Mass Graves"
    https://www.historiography-project.com/jhrchives/v19/v19n3p20_radar.php

    EXCERPT "The team carefully examined the entire Treblinka II site, especially the alleged “mass graves” portion, and carried out control examinations of the surrounding area. They found no soil disturbance consistent with the burial of hundreds of thousands of bodies, or even evidence that the ground had ever been disturbed. In addition, Krege and his team found no evidence of individual graves, bone remains, human ashes, or wood ashes." CONTINUED


    (8) “Fake smoke added to 1944 photo to 'prove' Holocaust crematorium story. The stunt was so blatant that the Simon Wiesenthal Center even had to remove it!”
    http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/fake/SWCsmokeFake.html
     
  16. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    One of the most common hate exercises on any political forum are the so called holocaust deniers. Their m.o. is identical:

    1. Initiate a threat about holocaust denial posed as a response to an entirely different subject heading.
    2. Make generalized unreferenced statements claiming the holocaust did not happen.
    3. Use different aliases to make it appear as if its an opinion held by more than one person.
    4. Continue to make different unreferenced subjective comments to deflect from the original denial subjects once they have been debunked;
    5. Start a second, third, fourth thread on the same forum at the same time and begin repeating the same script of denial;
    5. Respond with quotes from hate sites that do not provideany proof but in fact repeat second hand or third hand subjective comments that not only are unproven but have been repeatedly debunked as false.
    6. Use holocaust denial to try recruit extremists into the organizations the deniers are members of

    There are 30 million documents produced by the Nazis that are now in public domain. They can't be destroyed and to ignore them is past the point of being stupid.

    The sheer volume of public domain evidence on the holocaust is going nowhere:

    https://libguides.usc.edu/c.php?g=235001&p=1559653

    The hate sites and claims of evidence of fake holocaust reports omn this thread have ALL have been debunked:

    https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2009/taking-holocaust-denial-point-point

    Nothing on this thread is new. Its the same repeated debunked sites all proven false. The point though is deniers feel if they repeat the lie enough times someone will read the lie and believe it since they see it over and over.

    I myself am appreciative of the work the United States has done in creating a living museum that forever prevents the denial of the holocaust and has turned it into a power tool to teach the next generations about hatred to try and prevent future genocides.

    The tactics of denial are easily explained:

    https://www.ushmm.org/antisemitism/holocaust-denial-and-distortion

    https://opencommons.uconn.edu/cgi/v...sredir=1&article=1152&context=srhonors_theses


    There are many who have taken the time to deny specifically the posts you see quoted on this forum that make it appear as if there is evidence denying the holocaust such as:

    https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/
     
  17. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    It's a matter of plausibility, as I told you before. It's very easy to decide who's right or wrong, if you know some of the HC denier bullshit. They never refuted anything and I'm pretty sure they never will.

    I don't know why you don't get it, bro.
    So I must assume that you do for political reasons. :(
     
  18. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What do you assume that I do for "political reasons"?

    I am simply an independent thinking American Veteran who is attempting to look at the realities of the WW2 era objectively and can see through the propaganda generated by the WW2 Allies and the fraudulent Holocaust Industry.

    In my earlier Post # 535, I cited at least 3 well supported facts that prove that the standard holocaust narrative cannot be true.

    In that Post, I stated: "Over this period of time, I have stated numerous facts and supported them with credible sources. At the same time, I've asked you to explain how various holocaust myths could be true when refuted by hard evidence but you have chosen not to answer."

    In that same Post, I showed that there are no mass graves at Treblinka, that Jews were members of the Nazi Party as well as Hitler's military and that according to Jewish sources, the world's Jewish population grew by almost 4 million during the WW2 era.

    In this and other threads, I have outlined and supported numerous other facts that prove that the standard holocaust narrative cannot be true which you have also been unable to refute.

    Referring to my Post # 535, how could you still believe the SHN (standard holocaust narrative) in light of the facts that there are no mass graves at Treblinka, that Jews were members of the Nazi Party as well as Hitler's military and that according to Jewish sources, the world's Jewish population grew by almost 4 million during the WW2 era?

    Please explain how the SHN could be true in the face of these irrefutable facts.
     
  19. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    Denying the Holocaust. I don't know why you do this. If you're not a neo-Nazi or Jew-hater, there must be another reason.

    You didn't cite any "well-supported facts". Most of the time, you have cited arbitrary and questionable internet sources that support your wrong belief.
     
  20. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hi! I've been busy the last couple of weeks.
    Started again reading, am still in your first link and found this:
    [​IMG]
    Isn't that amazing, actually unbelievable, that a Jew who spent the entire Second WW period in various concentration camps, denies the existence of the all important gas chambers?

    Researching Kautsky I came upon this statement...

    "After the war, he wrote a book called "Teufel und Verdammte" (‘Devil and Damned’) in which he claimed that 3.5 million Jews were exterminated at Auschwitz.
    We now know this to be untrue, since in 1989 the Soviet Union released official figures stating definitively that only 1.5 million people, not all Jews, had died at Auschwitz—a revision on the previously inflated 4 million figure of 1948.
    However, when pressed for details by Rassinier, Kautsky admitted that “never at any time had he seen a gas chamber and that he had based his information on what others had ‘told him’.”
    There goes his whole credibility!

    http://whale.to/b//benedikt_kautsky.html
     
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  21. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    There's stuff about the "witnesses" here.
    http://holocausthandbooks.com/

    In the "Books Published" section I found this.
    http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=36

    Click on PDF and go down to page #79. This is long and I've only scanned it but it looks objective. I'm posting it without having read it.


    Excerpt
    ----------------------------------------------
    “Eyewitness testimony must always be verified. There are two essential
    means of verifying such testimony in criminal cases: confronting the
    account with the material elements (in particular, with expertise as to
    the crime weapon), and the detailed cross-examination of the witness
    on what he/she purports to have seen. Thus, in the proceedings where it
    had been a question of the homicidal gas chambers of Auschwitz, no
    judge nor any attorney was able to claim any kind of expertise regarding
    the weapon of the crime; moreover, no lawyer ever cross-examined
    the witnesses by asking them to describe with precision even one of
    these chemical slaughter-houses. That is, up until 1985. When witnesses
    that year were finally cross-examined on these subjects during the first
    Zündel trial in Toronto, their rout was total. […]
    Dr. Vrba was a witness of exceptional importance. […] Yet, by the end
    of the cross-examination, the situation had reversed itself to the point
    where Dr. R. Vrba was left with only one explanation for his errors and
    his lies: in his book he had, he confessed, resorted to ‘poetic license’
    […]. Crestfallen, the witness left the dock.”

    ----------------------------------------------
     
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  22. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Re:
    As I've repeatedly stated, I don't deny that the holocaust happened. I simply reject the outrageous lies used by the Holocaust Industry to deceive the gullible, extort money for perpetuation of the holocaust cult and to slander Germans.

    I reject lies about homicidal steam, electrocution and gas chambers used to murder about 11 million people (6 million Jews and 5 million "others") in a "Nazi genocidal agenda" for the same reason I reject the lie that the earth is flat.
    None of those things are true.

    You seem to keep forgetting that most of the people on this planet(1) also reject the outright lies that are sacred beliefs to those holocaustian cult members who have been so effectively brainwashed.

    I seriously doubt that the billions of people who reject holocaustian lies are Neo-Nazis or Jew haters. They simply recognize that the standard holocaust narrative defies common sense and contains so many physical impossible elements that it cannot be true.

    They've also become justifiably skeptical of a fraudulent Holocaust Industry(2) that has already been caught telling horrific lies about "human skin lampshades", "human fat soap", "shrunken heads", "human vaporizers"(3) a "Conveyor Belt of Death"(4) and other outright hoaxes

    Do you normally believe everything that you're told by proven liars?

    Re:
    If I haven't cited any well supported facts, why can't you refute anything I've written and supported?

    1. For example, if about 850,000 people were executed at Treblinka, buried, dug up, burned with a huge amount of fuel and reburied, why is there no evidence of any mass grave of what would have to be several huge mass graves(5), (6)?

    2. Additionally, if about 6 million Jews were murdered during the WW2 era, why do Jewish sources report that the world's Jewish population grew by almost 4 million(7)?

    3. Finally, if Germany's National Socialists wanted to murder all of Europe's Jews, why were Jews among the high ranking members of both the Nazi Party(8) and Germany's military(9)?

    I already asked the 3 questions listed above in my earlier Post # 535 yet you cannot refute these 3 simple facts that make the standard holocaust narrative impossible.

    Please refute the 3 facts I just listed and stop being so obviously evasive so we can move on.

    Thanks,


    (1) ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS”
    https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...he-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/

    EXCERPT “Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts.

    Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth.

    Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust."

    - Hindus were most likely to believe that the number of Holocaust deaths has been exaggerated.

    - people younger than 65 were much more likely to say they believe that facts about the Holocaust have been distorted”CONTINUED


    (2) "17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE"
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U

    EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED


    (3)"Auschwitz: Myths and Facts"
    http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

    EXCERPT "At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief US prosecutor Robert Jackson charged that the Germans had used a "newly invented" device to instantaneously "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no trace left of them." [8] No reputable historian now accepts either of these fanciful tales."CONTINUED


    (4)"Auschwitz Electrical Conveyor belt of Death"
    https://disjecta.wordpress.com/2018/01/26/auschwitz-electrical-conveyor-belt-of-death/

    EXCERPT "It’s a little known fact that running alongside the scientifically implausible gas chambers at Auschwitz ran the electrified conveyor belts of death. These industrialised slaughter belts, we can assume took the passive cargo directly from the “cattle cars” and electrocuted the hapless victims without struggle then disposed of the evidence in Nazi furnaces. One can only guess at the “special devices” for killing children. Somehow visions of Willy Wonka’s Chocolate/extermination factory spring to mind."CONTINUED


    (5) “Treblinka: Revealing the hidden graves of the Holocaust”
    https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16657363

    EXCERPT “Despite this, in a later statement they said they had discovered no mass graves.

    The existence of mass graves was known about from witness testimony, but the failure to provide persuasive physical evidence led some to question whether it could really be true that hundreds of thousands of Jews were killed here.” CONTINUED


    (6) "Treblinka Ground Radar Examination Finds No Trace of Mass Graves"
    https://www.historiography-project.com/jhrchives/v19/v19n3p20_radar.php

    EXCERPT "The team carefully examined the entire Treblinka II site, especially the alleged “mass graves” portion, and carried out control examinations of the surrounding area. They found no soil disturbance consistent with the burial of hundreds of thousands of bodies, or even evidence that the ground had ever been disturbed. In addition, Krege and his team found no evidence of individual graves, bone remains, human ashes, or wood ashes." CONTINUED


    (7) "Was there Really a Holocaust?"
    https://www.biblebelievers.org.au/wasthere.htm

    EXCERPT "The World Almanac for 1947 states that back in 1939 the world Jewish population was 15,688,259. The Almanac's figures were supplied by the American Jewish Committee. Next the Jewish-owned New York Times of February 22, 1948 stated the world Jewish population for that year amounted "to 15,600,000 to 18,700,000 in addition to the 600,000 to 700,000 living in Palestine." How could the Jewish population increase so rapidly over the war years if they had lost 6,000,000 people?"CONTINUED


    (8)"List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazis_of_non-Germanic_descent

    EXCERPT "Notably, there were several high-ranking Nazis of full and partial Jewish descent."CONTINUED


    (9) “Hitler’s Jewish Army”
    http://counterpsyops.com/2013/02/14/...-hitlers-army/

    EXCERPT “Thousands of men of Jewish descent and hundreds of what the Nazis called ‘full Jews’ served in the German military with Adolf Hitler’s knowledge and approval.

    In approximately 20 cases, Jewish soldiers in the Nazi army were awarded(*)Germany’s highest military honor, the Knight’s Cross.

    Jews also served in the Nazi police and security forces as ghetto police(Ordnungdienst)(*)and concentration camp guards(*)(kapos).

    So what happens to the claim that Hitler sought to exterminate all Jews, when he allowed some of them to join in his struggle against Bolshevism and International finance capitalism?

    “If the Jews were permitted to serve in Hitler’s armed forces then there could not have been a Holocaust.”CONTINUED
     
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  23. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    But what's about the ~1 million Jews deliberately gassed and burned in the Auschwitz death camp? Do you also deny that?

    Your so-called facts were refuted by many historians rather than me. But you obviously didn't read them. I told you before that my mistakes and forgetfulness aren't suited to refute the HC in general. I'm only an amateur just like you.

    There is evidence but you simply don't trust them, because professional HC deniers said so.
     
  24. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For the sake of continuity, let's please stick to the 3 facts I just cited that, alone, prove that the standard holocaust narrative (SHN) is fraudulent.
    I don't expect to change your opinion but simply to show that there are sound and rational reasons for most of the world's people rejecting the SHN.

    1. There have been at least 2 detailed searches of Treblinka for the mass graves of about 850,000 that were allegedly gassed, buried, dug up, burned with an impossible amount of fuel and reburied. Richard Krege's independent team used GPR (Ground Penetrating Radar) and augers to take core samples in all the areas that have been designated "mass graves" and found no evidence of any mass graves.

    A second search of Treblinka done by C.S. Colls and the Smithsonian dug up some Christian graves and confused tile markings with the Star of David but, they too found no mass graves in locations where 850,000 are supposed to be buried.
    According to the BBC source I cited, they, too found no mass graves:

    “Treblinka: Revealing the hidden graves of the Holocaust”
    https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16657363

    EXCERPT “Despite this, in a later statement they said they had discovered no mass graves.

    The existence of mass graves was known about from witness testimony, but the failure to provide persuasive physical evidence led some to question whether it could really be true that hundreds of thousands of Jews were killed here.” CONTINUED

    It's very rare that MSM ever tells the truth about research related to the holocaust so the BBC confession that no mass graves exist at Treblinka is especially noteworthy in that it confirms the fact that Treblinka, like the other Eastern camps, was simply a transportation center as the Germans stated.

    We know that the Holocaust Industry and Allied propagandists lie about alleged German sadism based on earlier lies about "human skin lampshades", "human fat soap", shrunken heads and now it's been proven that Treblinka is another lie.

    Additionally, any independent thinking individual who has done any hard manual labor and has common sense knows that it's impossible for 50 guards to gas 850,000 people with a single Russian tank engine, bury the bodies, dig them up, cut down thousands of trees, burn the bodies and then cover them up so that nothing remains in about 16 months.
    It's simply not possible yet millions of people have been brainwashed into believing this and other impossible lies without question.

    Do you really believe that about 850,000 people could have been murdered in this manner and their bodies made to disappear?

    Re:
    Please show me where even one "historian" has refuted anything I've written and supported. Professional holocaustian myth makers who have mainly hearsay as "evidence" only slander people like Richard Krege, Fred Leuchter and others who debunk holocaustian lies but they can't refute them.


    2. Additionally, if about 6 million Jews were murdered during the WW2 era, why do Jewish sources report that the world's Jewish population grew by almost 4 million?

    I've already cited Jewish sources that prove that the world's Jewish population grew by about 4 million and I think that it is naive to think that many Jews did not change from being Jews to being Christians so why is there no missing 6 million?


    3. Finally, if Germany's National Socialists wanted to murder all of Europe's Jews, why were Jews among the high ranking members of both the Nazi Party and Germany's military?

    I, too, don't claim to be an expert on WW 2 history or the holocaust and they are not even among my major interests but I've known dozens of WW 2 Veterans from both sides, honest holocaust survivors, civilian WW 2 survivors and none of them believe or tell stories anything like the SHN.
    If you are also an amateur, why do you believe impossible stories without question. Over 60 years, I've looked at both sides of the holocaust story and have no political, religious or racial reasons to believe either side over another. I simply believe what is most credible.

    I hope you will please answer the 3 questions that I have posted in blue so we can move on.

    Thanks,
     
  25. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    That wasn't all. There are eyewitnesses to the Treblinka case.
    Look here, section "The Treblinka Death Camp": http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ar/argaschambers.html

    And the
    Interview with last Treblinka commander Kurt Franz
    German only,


     

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