Former Prosecutor makes the case that Trump committed treason

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Patricio Da Silva, Jun 20, 2022.

  1. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    16,385
    Likes Received:
    8,969
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Glenn Kirschner was a Washington DC prosecutor for 30 years. He now runs the "Justice Matters Podcast" and is an MSNBC legal analyst.

    He gives five data points why Trump is on the hook for treason, and why it's
    not hyperbole to levy the charge.

    I invite you to watch this short clip, below.

    So, what say you?

    However, in Trump's defense, on the point of the Georgia phone call, where he asserts that Trump's quote of finding X number of ballots, it proves corrupt intent, I can see Trump's attorney's arguing that, given Trump's typically inarticulate speech, he wasn't implying to 'illegally manufacture' ballots just to recount and hope to find more, enough to change the outcome. I find Kirschner being overzealous to allege that point. That being said, on the other points, I agree, though it will probably be a steep climb for prosecutors to make the case.

    In any event, I think Trump should be prosecuted so we can hear the best arguments pro and con, on Trump's alleged criminal behaviors. I think, for the good of the nation, we need to see the evidence and hear the arguments, once and for all, to convict, or to acquit,(on whatever charges the DOJ deems appropriate) so at least half the nation can move on.

     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2022
    Rampart likes this.
  2. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    20,188
    Likes Received:
    19,120
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He...<censoring myself>.


    Image24.jpg
     
    Patricio Da Silva and Rampart like this.
  3. straight ahead

    straight ahead Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2014
    Messages:
    4,942
    Likes Received:
    5,569
    Trophy Points:
    113
    End of story.
     
  4. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2013
    Messages:
    20,362
    Likes Received:
    7,758
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Part two soon to be released with Dolby digital sound
     
  5. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    16,385
    Likes Received:
    8,969
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So, had he been a Fox "News" or a Newsmax or OAN analyst, it would have been okay? Only your side has legitimate legal advice?

    That's rich considering the bogus legal advice Trump's lawyers are giving him.

    Your logic wanes.
     
    Rampart likes this.
  6. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2021
    Messages:
    4,564
    Likes Received:
    3,771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You don't just prosecute someone just to see what you fan find. The have Constitutional procedures and safeguards. Probable cause, etc. The "find me XX votes" sounds to me more like an incouragement to work hand and leave no stone unturned. I have leaders and bosses us similar language on various projects.
     
  7. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    16,385
    Likes Received:
    8,969
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Four of his five data points are sufficient probable cause. I agreed with you on that one.

    Plenty of probable cause here:

    Subverting Justice: How Trump and his allies pressured the DOJ to overturn the 2020 election
    https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Interim Staff Report FINAL.pdf
    Summary of criminality exposed by the hearings
    https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Trump-on-Trial.pdf
    Judge Luttig's statement to the committee
    https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/22061497/pages/jml-final-p1-normal.gif?ts=1655378325977
    Judge Carter's ruling on Eastman, one of the architects of Trump's scheme to overturn the election, indicating criminality.
    https://www.cacd.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/documents/DOC Eastman Order_0.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2022
  8. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2021
    Messages:
    4,564
    Likes Received:
    3,771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    From a quick sampling it looks more like wishing thinking seasoned heavy with anti-trumpism. Witnesses and information admitted at the hearing was carefully selected by the Committee to reach their intended result.
     
    Tim15856 likes this.
  9. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    20,188
    Likes Received:
    19,120
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's not even that complicated. They claim that he is *completely* innocent of any wrongdoing relative to the 2020 election and Capitol riot on January 6,2021.

    Let's go with that BS for a second.

    1. Why did he try to get a judge to stop anybody from questioning him and his equally disgusting demon seeds?
    2. Why did he literally hand over shreds of papers to the investigating committee?
    3. Why is almost 1/3rd (7 hours) of recordings missing from what he handed over?

    Innocent people don't have a problem with investigations and don't hand over piecemeal documents.

    4. Why did he refuse to call off the rioters for hours?
    5. Why was he reportedly angry the police were able to get VP Pence to safety before the building was breached?
    6. Why did he refuse to give the order for the National Guard for back-up?

    Innocent people aren't cool with cops being mob attacked and will immediately get them back-up (unless said person wanted what happened to happen).

    7. Why did he remove official documents to Florida instead of handing them over to the National Archives as per their policies?
    8. Why did he lie to his own supporters about COVID and collect over $50 million from China during his one term as POTUS?
    9. Why did he publicly denounce his own country's leaders in favor of a dictator?

    Patriotic and loyal Americans NEVER publicly berate their own leadership even if we think it's true.

    10. Why did he just throw his offspring crush under the bus because of her statements to the investigating committee?

    There is nothing about him that is even close to legit. I'm just shocked there are so many that are totally oblivious or totally cool with that.
     
    Bob0627 and Rampart like this.
  10. popscott

    popscott Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2021
    Messages:
    5,998
    Likes Received:
    3,758
    Trophy Points:
    113
  11. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    Messages:
    2,710
    Likes Received:
    2,022
    Trophy Points:
    113
    At what point did Trump attempt to overthrow The United States government? Because If challenging election results is all you got, your pissing into the wind.
     
    Tim15856 likes this.
  12. gringo

    gringo Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2019
    Messages:
    1,814
    Likes Received:
    1,279
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Patricio Da Silva and Rampart like this.
  13. trumptman

    trumptman Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2021
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    156
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    https://lawandcrime.com/awkward/msn...he-u-s-constitution-following-flynn-reprieve/

    When you are featured several times on "Bad Legal Takes" because you basically ignore law school and basic Constitutional understanding to get likes, clicks and views, then you don't get credibility.

    This is fan fiction.
     
    Tim15856 likes this.
  14. fullmetaljack

    fullmetaljack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2017
    Messages:
    4,334
    Likes Received:
    3,484
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Based on Kirschner's points, I have my doubts about the case he's trying to make. I'm not a legal expert, but I have sat on a jury. Speaking as a potential juror, I think he's aiming too high.

    I think they could bring him to trial in an actual court, as opposed to in front of the Senate where the Republicans would still acquit him just to keep their hold on power.

    It would have to be a federal court so the judge selected(and that selection process would turn into a 3 ring circus right off the bat) would be the one to select the jury.
    In federal court, the judge is charged with selecting a representative selection of the district, so there would almost certainly be a few Trump supporters on the jury.
    Given how Trump supporters don't listen to facts, that would preclude a conviction. Nevertheless, as mentioned above, it might serve to broadcast a balanced account of the events. It might also guarantee that he doesn't get the nomination.

    On balance, keeping him off the ticket versus an acquittal might be a fair exchange.
     
    Patricio Da Silva and Rampart like this.
  15. Rampart

    Rampart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2017
    Messages:
    4,912
    Likes Received:
    4,239
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  16. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    39,049
    Likes Received:
    20,151
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I can't stand Trump. If he does get convicted of anything at all, I will personally throw a party. But treason? No, he's not guilty of treason.
     
  17. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    39,049
    Likes Received:
    20,151
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He didn't just "challenge the results." He tried to have them overthrown. He tried to have the results of five entire states eliminated. He tried to have the entire EC revoked in favor of a House vote instead.
     
    Patricio Da Silva likes this.
  18. popscott

    popscott Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2021
    Messages:
    5,998
    Likes Received:
    3,758
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Can Trump's team then ask the questions instead of a scripted sham show you are eating up. Do the witnesses finally get cross-examined about their testimony? Show me were Trump has been indicted...
     
  19. Rampart

    Rampart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2017
    Messages:
    4,912
    Likes Received:
    4,239
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    treaspn is a high bar, and would require proof that trump's crimes were in the interest of a hostile foreign power rather than for the standard greed and personal aggrandizement. . at the very least, trump's lawyers could argue that we are not at war, therefore the russians and ibn saud are not "enemies" so trump's aid and comfort are not treasonous.

    the easier crimes to prove would be rico statutes.
     
  20. popscott

    popscott Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2021
    Messages:
    5,998
    Likes Received:
    3,758
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Will a committee member swear under oath and testify why he doctored evidence and was lying? Let's set adam schiff down under oath as YET AGAIN he has altered the evidence.. that is his second time he has went before Congress and made up garbage... how much more evidence is the illegitimate and illegal committee been changing?
     
    Tim15856 likes this.
  21. popscott

    popscott Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2021
    Messages:
    5,998
    Likes Received:
    3,758
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Electoral count act of 1887... educate yourself... he did nothing illegal.
     
    Tim15856 likes this.
  22. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    16,385
    Likes Received:
    8,969
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Uh, no.

    The witnesses are all Trump personnel.

    Read the documents, nothing 'wishful' about it. Everything is annotated and documented.

    Incompetent rebuttal, lazy rhetort.
     
    Nemesis likes this.
  23. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    16,385
    Likes Received:
    8,969
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    May I quote you?

    Thanks.
     
  24. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Messages:
    16,385
    Likes Received:
    8,969
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Listen to the video.
     
  25. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    20,188
    Likes Received:
    19,120
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes. Thanks for asking.
     

Share This Page