From Where Does Mohammed Get His Authority?

oh dang did i say "my book" ? i apologise i meant the book god is telling me to write. and also i gotta go get a copy of the Torah,Bible and Quran so i can combine them and make my story out of it.......errr i mean what god told me to write.

i gotta thank Mohammed for this, its all based on his idea on hijacking religions.................

errr i mean it was a message from God(Peanut Butter Jelly) for me to do this.

Christian+Jew+Islam=Geddon

 

Let's see your message from God, let's see if your book is as unique as the Quran. Can you be the first person ever to write something to challenge the literary level of the Quran?

Have you ever read the Quran? (Nope).

سلام

 

Is this an attempt to be funny?

Really though, you refuse to learn about the topic and instead joke around? Makes it even harder to take you seriously.

But I guess some people prefer to live in ignorance. It is a much easier lifestyle than learning about new things, after all that takes effortذ

سلام

 

i will have it my newly acquired Geddonite, fear not for the true word of god is coming.

i am now a prophet, as Mohammed claimed himself one. and my book will be better, alot more action scenes and some hot gossip about Mary Magdalene with Jesus Christ. also speaking of Jesus ima fill in the 18 years or so missing from the bible.

will be a great book.

 

no im not refusing to learn anything, you are trying to tell me how it is based on a definition a man made up 600 years ago to claim all before him as prophets for his made up religion.

now im gonna do the same, so you are now a Geddonite. game over.

 

leave the ignorant be, brother.
he has remotely no idea what he says.
but he did remind me of these ayahs:

2:15
Allah shall pay them back their mockery, and He leaves them
alone in their inordinacy, blindly wandering on.

---

2:212
Beautified for those who disbelieve is the life of this world,
and they ridicule those who believe. But those who fear Allah
are above them on the Day of Resurrection. And Allah gives
provision to whom He wills without account.​

so tenessee boy, you again...
a friendly advice: move on and don't be cruel to yourself.
or pick up and read "the" book if you are so sure of what you
are claiming... but i have a feeling your mind won't let you.

be well.

 

Great post.

This is a concept to difficult for some people to understand I guess. But like you said, his mind won't let him.

But after all, Allah SWT did give us free will and the ability to think what we want. How we decide to think is up to us and we will have to answer for it one day. I hope he has good answers

سلام

 

It continues to go right over your head. I have just one last thing to say.

The words Muslim, Islam, Allah were not just made up by Mohammad SAW. They are part of the Arabic language, they already had meanings.

Geddonite is just a made up word, by you, part of no language. If you don't understand the difference between what Mohammad SAW and what you are doing, then there is no reason to continue this discussion. You clearly aren't taking it seriously.

Read this: http://islamic-replies.ucoz.com/All_Prophets_Were_Muslims.html

If you refuse to read that, and know what we are discussing, then I'm not going to waste my time with you. You aren't worth it, sorry.

سلام

 

i dont need to read any book when i know the history of religion. fact is Islam or muslims were not around until 600 years after the death of Jesus Christ, and im sorry but just because some dude made up his own definition of what a muslim is dont just magically transform everyone into muslims.

 

nope, you don't know the history of religion.

i can ask you questions right now that you won't
be able to answer even if you search the whole web.

not because i know too much.
but because you and your info-buddy "mr. www"
is full of disinformation or excerpted knowledge.

people compare 2 holy books chronologically, then
jump to the conclusion that the prior one is to
be copied from the latter.

why copy?
why ignore the perfect source and imperfect addressee?
why ignore the corruption?
and why leave the logic at the door?

you don't know it.
you claim you know it.

you don't look that up.
then you claim certitude.

the fact is.
you don't possess the knowledge for this thread.

i'm sorry i don't mean to be harsh.
but i need you to face your current situation.

either;

1. learn,
2. or ask about it sincerely
3. or hush and keep reading

be well.

 

read history as the Islamic faith started with Mohammed, thats all that needs to be known honestly, as well as the fact that Jesus,no Moses,nor Abraham knew of anything of what a muslim was.

dont you think God/Allah would have stated to his only son Jesus Christ that he was a muslim ? how bout Mary and Joseph or the 12 apostles? im sure they would have known if they were muslim lol. but the fact is they werent, it was till the 7th century that some dude named Mohammed who studied the Jews and Christian faith put his own words on it and claimed God/Allah spoke to him. funny how he takes his first encounter from the Arch Angel Gabriel straight from the passages of Mary's encounter lol, how convenient.

Islam was started by Mohammed merely to bring certain arab tribes closer together, while at the same time Mohammed making himself someone of importance to lead the whole Islamic uprising. pretty smooth if you ask me.

but still, his made up definition does not automatically make christian and Jewish prophets muslim, no matter how bad you wish it so.

and Mohammed saw visions from God right? because he simply claimed it so correct and nobody else witnessed him having these visions? yeah thought so.

if i start a religion,Geddon, and claim that God was sending me visions its no different than what Mohammed did. he made up a story, used other religions as his foundation and put his personal spin on it making himself the most important prophet, as well as satisfying his love for many women declaring they could have more than one wife, also at very very young ages.

John Smith of the Mormons did the same thing as Mohammed, hijacked a religion and put his own spin on it.

religion of course has been around since the beginning of mankind so it did not start with christianity or Judaism, and it sure didnt start with Islam and what Mohammed wrote in a book. whos religion is the true word? eh who knows but im sorry Islam is not a clear option considering historical facts about the religion or the Quran. if Islam was the first Jesus,Moses and Abraham would have specifically mentioned it so and it would be documented in many texts, and not just one book started by one man.

do i respect Islam? yes as just like any other religion it has its good points and bad points and is quite obvious it is an important piece of our worlds history. and yes when i speak i speak very bluntly, i dont care to hold anything back . and dont take this too personal as my point is not to tell you to give up Islam, it is your god given right to believe in what you want to believe in and i dont want to take that right away from anybody as we can all agree god gave us free will to do as we please.

and someone mentioned i better have good answers when i go to face my final judgement, well the thing is im not questioning god, only the so called prophets who say they speak for God, and trust me its not just Mohammed i criticize, just so happens he is the topic of discussion so im gonna say what i have t say about him.

what it all comes down to is we are gonna have to agree to disagree. when it comes to the Abrahamic faith and its origins i just dont pick a book and claim one is the right one, i go by history and text to narrow it down. and im sorry im not gonna go by a definition made up by one man in the 7th century well after the origins of the Abrahamic faiths had already had a solid foundation and had its followers well before Islam came to be.

 

wrong, i was a student of religion well before GOOGLE was even thought of. and also you are just gonna call me wrong no matter what i say unless i agree whole heartedly with your opinion.

i go by facts other than documentation of a holy book no matter which one you throw my way.

and im sorry but chronological order is very important when we speak about faiths having to do with those of Abrahamic origins. according to you Mormonism could be the true way considering Joseph Smith did the same thing as Mohammed and made his own branch based off of Christianity. so what do you have to say about that? you gonna call Mormonism wrong correct because you believe only islam is the true way right? yeah thats what i thought.

Joseph Smith like Mohammed, are nothing but mere geniuses that took an idea and ran with it and it got their name stamped into history.

i dont call their religions wrong, i dont claim Islam is wrong nor do i say Mormonism is wrong, i simply look at them as ones own personal way of praising God. but calling either of the the true religion of God? no i cant personally agree to that as they are just branches of a similar faiththat was started well before they were even thought of.

 

[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q1pTYQLQAoI"]Islam is the faith of Adam and Noah-pbut -Jewish Rabbi admits Islam is most likely oldest religion - YouTube[/ame]

Ive provided two sources which explain it for you, it's up to you to use them or not.

سلام

 

reds above.

 

ok ill play along with this. my questions are.........

-why is this the only source of these claims and where is the full video of this claim as im sure the other men at the table have something to say about the subject?

-also i cant find any other sources of this claim other than this video and of course people making blogs or psts about this video. surely by now after such an epic find there would be alot more on the subject other than a 3 minute snippet and a few blogs, can you show me more please?

-another thing id like to ask is why didnt Jesus or Moses mention anything about Islam? they never spoke a word of it according to ancient texts, even in Jewish texts. in fact Jesus never spoke of any particular religion or claiming to be a follower of one, only that he was the son of God or in his time used either the phrase Alah or Eloim, not the arabic word Allah.

-If Islam was so old according to this Rabbi, why is it that the only thing they can supposedly find about this particular religion is one passage in their book? if it was truly that old and had such promenate followers as Abraham,Noah and Moses it surely would have been well documented would it not? yet the only thing we have is a incomplete 3 minute video of this claim.

i have more questions but please answer this first.

 

you are correct as i dont have full knowledge of such things, if i did id have the true answer, but yet as religion goes we are all merely students and we dont truly have the total answer, all we have are the facts in front of us as we know them.

like i said, if we had full knowledge of the subject there would be no debate as we would know the true answers of not only the Bible,Torah,Talmud,and Quran...but also the truth about God. religion is about faith, you have yours and i have mine, if it was absolute we wouldnt be arguing and there (*)(*)(*)(*) sure wouldnt be so many different versions of what happened all those years ago.

but what we do have is the history, the origins, that we can truly argue in hopes of one day all will be revealed. there are many things we dont know, hell even the vatican withholds valuable info and possible answers for reasons we will not understand until they stop being jerks and let us in on their whole knowledge. and im sure the Jews and Muslim higher ups of the respected faiths also withhold knowledge and pieces to the puzzle.

why do you figure they withhold this info? what are they affraid to tell us?

i have presented historical fact as well as common fact about the origins of both christianity as well as Islam. only 1 book claims Islam to be the true way, while historical documentation and other sources prove that wrong.

Islam only merely branched off christianity and Judaism, took their very same stories and switched things up a bit and gave prophets like Jesus a new name i.e. Isa . changed the aramaic name of Alah and claimed Allah was a more perfect and infallible word for God.

in truth religion is a theory, its based on faith alone. if it was absolute we would have the answers and not be arguing.

but fact is Mohammed would have no Islam or muslim faith if it werent for christianity or Judaism, he would have nothing to go on and write about and make the claims he did. without the 2 religions in front of him Islam would not be here or it would be something entirely different. the chronological order plays alot into the developement of Islam and what Mohammed preached.

only according to Islam and Muslims. and Islam does not correct the bible, more like it contradicts it. Islam is merely a different view of things, changed the history a bit of other religions and the creator of it,Mohammed,claimed it was the most perfect and correct version and of course his follwers to this day agree. nothing wrong with that, nothing wrong at all with having faith in what you believe in, its what its all about and im sure God/Allah/Eloim/Alah is grateful for the faith in him as we are grateful for the life given to us.

all faiths claim the same as you stated, that they are the only true way. a statement that has yet to be determined and doubtful it will be in our lifetime.

im not comparing the 2 books side by side, im comparing the way the religions were founded. both religions founded with 2 men claiming they were receiving the word of God,started writing their book and gained followers and claiming their way was the only true way of god.

i never claimed the Book of Mormons and the Quran were the same, only origins of how the respective faiths came to be and where they got their ideas.

there is a thread for that, this is not the place.

agreed.


p.s. please dont post in that red anymore, just reply normally because it took me forever to respond because i had to copy and paste your entire reply.

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_in_Islam

It isn't just among bloggers, it is a well known belief of Muslims. Just because there is only one video on YouTube about a Rabbi saying it doesn't mean it is any less credible...


But they did.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Job 22:21 Submit to God and be at peace with him; in this way prosperity will come to you.

Both Prophets preached submission to God, is that not the teaching of Judaism and Christianity? So yes, they preached Islam - the submission to God's will. And yes, since Jesus spoke Aramaic, he would have used the name Allah for God. For somebody who has studied religion which you said you did, you should of known that. I made a thread about this actually. Maybe I should dig it up.


Maybe because it isn't talked about too much? I would assume not many people would like to hear something like this, you being a prime example. You don't have to take this Rabbi's word for it, however I just wanted to show this isn't a belief primarily among Muslims, you are showing it is not a topic that is easy to talk about. At least with people such as yourself, who just don't want to hear it.

If you wanted to, you would of looked harder for more sources. I felt giving a non-Muslim source would have a different response, guess not.

سلام

 

all this shows me is Islams version of a religion, their belief system. nothing of use here.

yeah and those bible verses were written and documented well before the word Islam was made up by Mohammed. Mohammed created the word, the religion in his vision and gave the word Islam his definition. just because he made a definition in the name of those who submitted to god doesnt mean those who did before Islam was created are Muslims.

once again if that was how it worked then i can make up a new word and makes its definition where it claims Mohammed,muslims,christians and Jews as followers of my new religion and made into something else.

thats called HIJACKING religions, or somehow making them prophets and followers of my religion. Mohammed cant just make up a word and claim prophets as followers of his religion, it dont work that way.

you cant preach a religion if it wasnt around back then. and just because some guy made up a word and gave it the definition of "submission" does not mean he can lay claim to prophets before him as followers of his religion.

and the correct spelling for the Aramaic version of God is Alah, only 1 L. it wasnt until Mohammed where he changed it to Allah. so Jesus did not speak to the muslim version of the name of God.AND SINCE JESUS WAS A JEW he either used the terms Alah or Eloim.

or maybe because its merely a theory that is not truly proven, which is why the snippet of the Rabbi's claims are cut so short. people have a great tendency to manipulate such things to fit their agenda, only tell one side of the story and claim it as straight truth.

perhaps its not widely talked about simply because the claim is not absolute, because if it was Islam would have a huge claim on the Abrahamic religions and its origins and be widely touted by those of the Islamic faith in efforts to lay claim to being the true religion of God. but we cant know anything else about the so called claim because the person who edited the video only showed what he or she wanted to be seen and heard.

without a full video of that discussion your point is very moot.

 

If indeed the above did ever actually perform any miracles, we will never know.

Perhaps Mohammed performed a few miracles .. we do not know this either.

As such we do not know if any of the above individuals actually had the authority to speak for God.

I think if James and Peter thought that Paul had performed any miracles they would have thought more of him.

James and Peter did not think much of Paul or his teachings.

That James and Peter did not think much of Paul's teachings makes it really difficult for me to accept that Paul spoke for God.

 

sorry about that.
here you go:

none of us have it. the full knowledge.
we know as much as Allah (God) -the source- lets us know.

12:76
[...] We raise in degrees whom We will, but over every possessor of
knowledge is one [more] knowing.

2:255
[...] He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after
them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for
what He wills. [...]

------------

sahih bukhari, volume 6, book 60, number 250.

[...]
al-khadir said, "what do you want?' moses said, ' i came to you so
that you may teach me of the truth which you were taught.' al-khadir
said, 'is it not sufficient for you that the torah is in your hands and
the divine inspiration comes to you, o moses? verily, i have a knowledge
that you ought not learn, and you have a knowledge which i ought not
learn.' at that time a bird took with its beak (some water) from the sea:
al-khadir then said, 'by allah, my knowledge and your knowledge besides
allah's knowledge is like what this bird has taken with its beak from the sea.'
[...]​

so in brief;

1) intellectual humility
2) don't take it from anyone else not even from your father
when it comes to Allah's religion. look it up yourself.
3) question everything but keep having faith in Allah. in other
words, do not undermine/ignore the source of the water when
in fact easing your thirstfrom that source all day long.​

the church is running the biggest business in the world.
check the enourmous assets and shares they possess all around the world.
people don't give up billions of dollars and billions of conditioned followers
for the "truth". it's just how man is.

if anyone would leak any files, i don't think he would be alive
and happily living ever after...

they know very well what is what.
but you must understand, these are deep matters.

they have a different agenda about the next world.
let me tell you this much; they think they are "secure" in
this world and in the next. they count on someone, something.

we only count on Allah. and follow the guidance.
we will see who has done ok at the day of judgement.

34:24-25-26-27
Say, "Who provides for you from the heavens and the earth?"
Say, "Allah. And indeed, we or you are either upon guidance or in clear error."

Say, "You will not be asked about what we committed, and we will
not be asked about what you do."

Say, "Our Lord will bring us together; then He will judge between us
in truth. And He is the Knowing Judge."

Say: "Show me those whom ye have joined unto Him as partners.
Nay (ye dare not) For He is Allah, the Mighty, the Wise."​

on the other hand, jews possess partly very good information.
also, some jews know more about the qur'an than a regular muslim.
if you see a jew in brooklyn praying secretly like a muslim
don't be surprised.

because they know very well why they rejected first jesus (pbuh)
and then muhammed (saw).

muslims are called the mediocre nation;
christians have the heart but not the knowledge.
they base their beliefs on councils, monks and man made interpretations.
jews have the knowledge but not the heart.
they have the torah and the laws, but they got distracted with the
"chosen people" communal boost among other things;
like... well... "conquering the world".

islam is blessed with both, heart and the mind. balanced.
your creator tells you what to do in the qur'an.
up to you to follow.

think of it as a anti-virus software update.
qur'an is the latest update, valid till the end...

this time, the message is not given to us to protect,
but guarded personally by Allah.

or the books before the qur'an has been altered.
maybe mankind fell in the same trap over and over again...
and we got separated by our creator and our tasks in this world
by intercessors, sons of gods, all sorts of false beliefs.

"but most of them do not know."
"do you not think?"
"how are you deluded?"
"how do you govern?"​

very frequently used in the qur'an.
what is it that they don't know?
people cought up in traditions and habits.
they don't question the truth.
from cradle to the grave, we live but we don't
truely seek the truth. that is, the biggest loss.
for we only live once.

there is something about the truth.
it is "one". not two three or seven.

islam is unique as a religion.
in fact the only religion that separates the creation
from the creator. all other religions worship an entity
from this world (man, elephants, statues) or from the
unseen (angels, demons, jinn etc...).

one is the truth.
and Allah is one.
no partners, no intercessors.

just you towards Allah = islam.
letting yourself guided from the lord of the worlds = path.

faith can be cross-checked in islam.
but you must be in the circle.

all doctrines in the world will leave you at some point.
socialsm, marksizm, atheism, also all other religions.

you get into the logic, you follow it.
but at some point things start to bother you.
you dig to make sense out of it and there is another can
of worms waiting for you. more lunatic stuff, less sense.

qur'an. not so. once you understand how it circulates
everything fits to the reference point. i am not saying
you are making it fit, that's delusion. i am saying it fits.

according to islam;
there has always been one religion.
christianity is a made up name, a later addition.
judaism too.

all books and messages have been altered.
they hold a part of the truth but mingled with the corruption
and the falshood.

there wasn't just 25-30 prophets...
124.000 to 224.000 messengers have come to bear
the same message. (mentioned in a hadith)

Allah is one.
no partners.
you have a task here. do it.
turn to your creator, don't run after things in vain.
don't get deluded. here is what you
should do, here is what you shouldn't.
it's hard but it will be ok.
let Allah guide you.​

that's the message.

124.000+ prophets.

you must be thinking...
how persistent man is to be fooled.
or how patient Allah is.

example: http://tinyurl.com/7tcbbc2
(i don't like posting videos as a reference, but it summarizes the issue)

it is normal.

1) the message has been the same.
2) people try to control people.​

there must be a messenger for a message to arrive.
long discussion but it's the way that has been chosen.
otherwise there would be no veil from the unseen.

that messenger is a man like you and me.
chosen by Allah.

a glimpse of it:

17:94-95-96
And what prevented the people from believing when guidance came
to them except that they said, "Has Allah sent a human messenger?"

Say, "If there were upon the earth angels walking securely, We would
have sent down to them from the heaven an angel [as a] messenger."

Say, "Sufficient is Allah as Witness between me and you. Indeed he
is ever, concerning His servants, Acquainted and Seeing."​

there have been false and trthful messengers.
so you can't put everyone in the same basket.

thus the thoughts must focus on "what is the message"?

the message and the character of the messenger
must be examined to declare the falshood or the truth
of that religion.

 

well the thing is how can we honestly know which religion is really telling the truth? i mean if you go by each book they lay claim to the truth, though they are similar they have their own view or story on the same events and how they turned out.

now please dont take this as an insult because im only speaking by historical data, im not going by any of the books of the respected religions because that would be biased in this type of discussion nor am i doubting your faith. BUT, how can you be so sure that Mohammed didnt take the same stories and put his own curve on them???

i mean its been done before with branches such as Baptist and Evangelicals,Mormons,Jehovas Witness, etc. etc. they all have their own personal spin on the religion which in turn praises the same God as Catholics and Muslims.

just because your book said so and because Mohammed laid it down in his words dont make it totally true.

dont get me wrong, i believe God exists and i truly believe in the end we will find the answer we are all looking for, but i just cant go 100% by books written by men who i am sure have miscommunicated the words and also had an agenda to gain followers.

we have many different stories of what happened in those days, im not just gonna pick one because "this guy said it was so" if you know what i mean.

i will study these more and ill probably never get an answer of which religion is telling the truth more, but i already firmly believe that God exists and i accept God as the one and only. that i feel i can be very sure of.

 

every research has a reference point.
not at start perhaps but it comes to you sooner or later.

it's a very good start to acknowledge a creator.
but you lack questions.

if Allah (God) created all of this,
what was the purpose?

if there is a role for us in that purpose, would
he leave humanity without any message? unguided?

if then there is a message how do i know
if it is the correct one or not?

prepare your questions.
and start reading. not just the qur'an.

but vedas, torah, bible, even the church of maradona...
to ease your mind.

we only live once.
and without acquiring the meaning of our existence
in my opinion you haven't lived.


this guy here stopped believing in “the” truth.
he stresses personal truths.

"you have your way. i have my way. as for the
right way, the correct way, and the only way,
it does not exist.” ~friedrich nietzsche​

this guy here put an extra meaning to the word “living”.
i don’t know his definition, but it has truth in it. few really
acquires the truth.

“to live is the rarest thing in the world. most people exist,
that is all.” ~oscar wilde ​

this guy here is a pessimist. far from reality, he takes
illusions as a comforter, a reality. including living by a religion,
or loving someone that keeps harming you, so on… he sees those
as a part of one's persona, thus shouldn’t be touched. i disagree.

“don't part with your illusions. when they are gone you
may still exist, but you have ceased to live.” ~mark twain ​

this guy here reaches to a certain point but doesn’t
go any further than his own bright intelligence.

“i cannot imagine how the clockwork of the universe
can exist without a clockmaker.” ~voltaire​

this guy here segregate the fortunate from the
unfortunate. and decides on behalf of the creator.

“the world is populated in the main by people who should not exist”
~george bernard shaw​

this guy here has a point, indeed.

“just as the body cannot exist without blood, so the
soul needs the matchless and pure strength of faith”
~mahatma gandhi​

this guy here is close enough.

“surely God would not have created such a being as man,
with an ability to grasp the infinite, to exist only for a day!
no, no, man was made for immortality.” ~abraham lincoln​

he is getting there…

in the name of God, stop a moment, cease your work, look around you.
~leo tolstoy​

yes. stop and contemplate.
search sincerely.
because:

21:16-17
And We did not create the heaven and earth and that
between them in play.

Had We intended to take a diversion, We could have taken
it from [what is] with Us - if [indeed] We were to do so.
--------
44:38-39
And We did not create the heavens and earth and that
between them in play.

We did not create them except in truth, but most of
them do not know.
--------
67:4-5
[And] who created seven heavens in layers. You do not
see in the creation of the Most Merciful any inconsistency.
So return [your] vision [to the sky]; do you see any breaks?

Then return [your] vision twice again. [Your] vision will
return to you humbled while it is fatigued.
--------
3:190-191
indeed, in the creation of the heavens and the earth and
the alternation of the night and the day are signs for those
of understanding.

who remember Allah while standing or sitting or [lying] on
their sides and give thought to the creation of the heavens
and the earth, [saying], "our lord, you did not create this
aimlessly; exalted are you [above such a thing]; then
protect us from the punishment of the fire.​

the rest is in the qur'an. :9

but the message should be from your creator.
and your creator is pure and flawless.
you must read everything regarding this criteria.

thus the message must be pure and flawless.

only pure intentions may unlock his truth,
with his permission.

the message should speak for itself.
you must have the feeling your creator is addressing to you.
it must be basic at the start but endless as you go deep.

the message should be: "wow, this can't be man made".

Allah-u alem.
and may Allah guide you.

be well.

 

Thx Mehmet , interesting quotation, some from people who during their life times , made other statements contradicting the onese you've quoted.

Life is far too short to waste on unanswerable questions or attempt passing it off with nonsensical answers.

IMO - Man created God . When I was a child , I believed as a child, along the years by beliefs have changed as I grew. For now I'm prepared to go along with this guy + many scholar of like mind :

"The Big Bang was the result of the inevitable laws of physics and did not need God to spark the creation of the Universe, Stephen Hawking has concluded

The scientist has claimed that no divine force was needed to explain why the Universe was formed.

In his latest book, The Grand Design, an extract of which is published in Eureka magazine in The Times, Hawking said: “Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the Universe exists, why we exist.”

He added: “It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the Universe going.”

In A Brief History of Time, Prof Hawking's most famous work, he did not dismiss the possibility that God had a hand in the creation of the world.

He wrote in the 1988 book: "If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason — for then we should know the mind of God.”

In his new book he rejects Sir Isaac Newton's theory that the Universe did not spontaneously begin to form but was set in motion by God.

In June this year Prof Hawking told a Channel 4 series that he didn't believe that a "personal" God existed. He told Genius of Britain: "The question is: is the way the universe began chosen by God for reasons we can't understand, or was it determined by a law of science? I believe the second. If you like, you can call the laws of science 'God', but it wouldn't be a personal God that you could meet, and ask questions."

Until his retirement last year Prof Hawking was Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at the University of Cambridge, a post previously held by Newton.

The book, co-written by American physicist Leonard Mlodinow, is published on September 9.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...od-was-not-needed-to-create-the-Universe.html


cheers.
......


btw - I believe Mohammed like many others before and after , were well meaning people - for the age the lived in. Times changed , human knowledge increased.



....

 

i see your points.

let me start by saying;
qur'an does not contradict with big bang.
nor sun having its own orbit.
nor universe elapsing.
nor phases in embryology.
nor the darknesses in the depth of oceans.
and so on...

mind that this book we mention is 1400 years old,
spoken words by an illiterate man, muhammed (saw).

yet those discoveries we mention are brand new to mankind.

-------

the main issue is:
to criticize something you should read it first.
just to show respect to the methodology and to the knowledge.

for example, did you read the qur'an?
if you did then it is your own choice.

yet no matter how intelligent people are, they rely on
other people's opinions rather than their own experience.
and no matter how hard i try, sometimes i do that too.

"yes! finally someone who makes sense...
thus filter his ideas as -correct-". done.​

no sir.
maybe not.

there is no certainty in science,
since it is progressive data.
it accumulates then it unloads.
it changes and evolves, as we speak.

today they may tell you the hdl cholesterol is harmless,
and the next year they might tell you to ease down on it
because high hdl might bear risks.

-------

no, i don't think we can know the mind of God.
we can know as much as he reveals himself to us.
through this universe, through us and his laws.

claiming to grasp the one who created love...
the intelligence... this universe... is a bit, well cocky. no?

information and misinformation.

often, the knowledge makes us arrogant.
makes us feel superior.
thus, we don't see the misinformation taking charge.

i don't know what you watch on tv but
belief in islam is another matter.
it's not mere mind, nor mere heart.
both balanced.

respecting and focusing on life and after life.
reconnecting with your creator.

-------

so back to subject;
christians rely on clergy and councils.
scientologists rely on auditings developed by l. ron hubbard.
some rely on hawkings.

i rely on Allah, the source.

i stay away from most people's mind,
they are often brute, deceiving and erroneous.

our minds serve someone or something.
whether we know it or not.

and i can't describe you how a baklawa tastes,
unless you taste it with me.

be well.

 

I respect your beliefs but please do NOT force it on me. I have had contacts with various muslims + people of other faiths for several years and have a fair of how they interpret their holy scriptures. IMO - neither/none seem to be more convincing than the others.


btw - I have tasted + enjoyed Baklava in Beirut many years ago during my travels and its readily available in a Turkish/Kurdish supermarket less than two miles from where I now live.


.... cheers.


btw - I've tried reading english translations - interpretaions - of the quran but it soon became obvious that it needs to be "studied" . not just read like a novel . I was told its written in 7th century classical arabic - which even Modern day Arabic speakers find hard to fully grasp. Much is lost/distorted/misinterpreted/ misunderstood - in translation.
....