Gay Chrsitians: Oxymoron?

You can't say that you hate homosexuality and that you don't hate homosexuals. Without contradicting yourself. That is like saying you love humans but you hate humanity.

Homosexuality describes what homosexuals are.

 

A sexually active homosexual Christian would have a hard time fitting in at Church.

As would a sexually active heterosexual person that was not married.

This is all because Christians believe in the myth of Sublimation.

But the fact is, the old men who wrote the books were not able to get sex, hence, they banned it for everyone else.

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Rubbish.

I am not a fan of slutty whores, unless they have sex with me. But, that does not mean I hate all slutty whores - get it?

 

Than that church isn't a Christian church. Christ's church is for sinners. If they run off the sinners than it's an empty building.

Umm... Sublimation isn't a myth. Dry(*)ice sublimates.

More like the onesthat translated it. The weird sex rules came from the perverts in Rome.

No, I don't get it. Why are you talking about whores? I wasn'treally talking about sex trade which is something that somebody does, I was talking about a characteristic that is part of who a person is. if you hate who a person is, I don't see how you can love them.

 

Addiction is harmful to the addict, being gay hurts no one.

Fear away, but I would find it unwise to apply your fear to her... especially is she is not a Christian. This will probably be offensive although I honestly for not mean it to be... to us non Christians, when you Christians talk about fearing for our souls... it just comes across as kinda creepy... because to us there is no proof of a hell as it is only a story in an old tome. But anyway... do you or the OP think minds will be changed by saying GOD hates homosexuality? I mean according to the Bible God hated a lot of things. IMO the God of The Old Testament comes across as more evil than satan. I do like many of the teachings of Jesus though.

You strike me as a very compassionate person and I genuinely respect that. You do make a good point in making a theological distinction between homosexuality and homosexual. But all to often we do see so called Christians aiming their hatred at homosexuals. There is a reason that some are so strident in their views of Christianity... and I hope that you can understand than many who "claim" to be Christian sure do not act very Christian. This becomes especially humorous when they then demand that we live up to standards that they cannot even adhere to.

 

So you think people are defined by their sexuality then apparently, but it is wrong to judge them on their sexuality? Interesting, but not really.

It is pretty simple, a gay person can be a Christian if they do all the things required to become one. Christians sin and all that too, but they are to seek forgiveness. If you want to pretend that homosexuality is not a sin, then you are perverting the clear message in the Bible. If one just excepts yep it is a sin and I am a sinner instead of arguing that it is not, then perhaps the road becomes a little less steep for them.

 

CHRISTIAN: Homosexual acts are sin. It says so in the Bible.

UNBELIEVER: You're misinterpreting the Bible.

CHRISTIAN: Ok, I'll ask virtually every Christian theologian, scholar, clergyman and educator possible and try to get a consensus.

UNBELIEVER: Ok, I'll ask an atheist website, Snopes and Wikipedia.

 

No, but you can't separate homosexuality from a person. There hating who they are is hating them.

Which is accept Christ astheir savior.

Even if they are gay.

No pretense necessary. It frankly is not a clear message in the Bible I am sorry to ruin that for you.

It's not a sin. Why should I accept something that isn't true? And how does doing so make "the road less steep"?

 

Yes you can. It is the homosexual acts which are the sin. You act like there can't be a homosexual virgin.

Depends. some denominations believe that more is required than just that

Which I have already stated.

The Bible is quite clear that acts of homosexuality are an abomination. You have ruined nothing for me except perhaps that hope that you might have an ounce of intellectual honesty, but I was clearly mistaken. Obviously you will never see why it makes the road less steep if you wish to continue to rationalize a behavior in a context in which it cannot be reconciled. You are clearly a religious relativist who thinks that the Bible only says the things that you want it to say and not what it actually says.

 

Homosexuality is about as morally sinful as shaving your face or wearing mixed fabrics.

 

Is it anymore impossible than being a lying Christian? A jealous Christian? A gluttonous Christian? A divorced Christian? One having premartial sex? Where in the Bible does it say you can do these other "sins" and be a Christian, but not have homosexual desires?

 

B.S.

Denominations that say otherwise aren't following Christ.

Than contradicted above.

No it isn't. It never said any such things.

Than it seems you are intent on holding on to your false belief. Oh Lord, you are that kind of person? "Anybody who disagrees with me about what the bible says is intellectually dishonest." Oh brother.

Because it's imaginary. You make to many assumptions about the bible and what it says.

Oh brother, more of this "you aren't right unless you completely agree with me" nonsense. It didn't Everett day anything about homosexuality, I can't make it not say something out doesn't say

 

I thought we were talking about my position, not yours, but at least we agree on that

The Bible indicates there is more to it than "accepting" Jesus.

You are so full of crap that you don't even know that I was agreeing with you.

The Bible refers to homosexual acts as an abomination. There is no way to avoid that. It is explicit, not a "false belief".

Well, if you ever decide to read it, you will see who has made "assumptions". It says what it says, and you have not refuted a single thing I referred to in scripture.

It would be nice if you could at least write in some variation of English since apparently you cannot read it given your perversion of the explicit language of the text of the Bible.

 

I was talking about yours.

chapter and verse?

You are so arrogant you don't see that you weren't, see below.

It absolutely does not. If it does chapter and verse?

No, you are making assumptions it never explicitly mentions homosexuality once. You are projecting.

Already have, already know it it's you.

It does say what it says I.e. nothing about homosexuality, what so ever. You haven't referred to a single thing in scripture for me to refute. You just are blabbing about your assumptions

Nice, false accusations, typically a sign one has no argument.

Not accepting you assumptions isn't perversion of what the bible explicitly says. It says. nothing about homosexuality, if it did you could prove it rather than abusing me of this crap.

 

Are you saying, homosexuality is what defines a person, because that is nonsense.

 

Same could be said for a pedophile, serial killer or rapist.

Should they be loved too, because it is ' who they are' ?

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It is morally sinful if you are less than 70% gay.

 

Can you introduce me to 'Homosexuality'? Where and when was it born? Who are its parents (her, his)? I think that homosexuality is not a person and God hates it regardless people who are making this sin.
God hates rapes. God hates prostitution. God hates murders. God hates homosexuality or any other sexual perversion.
God loves rapists. God loves prostitutes. God loves murderers. And for sure God loves homosexuals and can show a mercy not even at them but also at those who spread the word of God being hateful.

 

No I am not.

 

How so? Pedophilia, killing and rape aren't a sexual orientation and homosexuality makes victims out of nobody. So no the same can't be said for those issues. Sorry.

Read Christ's commandments on that. He covers it.

 

typically when people say "God hates such and such" they really mean they hate it and they are hoping that speaking for God gives them some clout, it just makes them look foolish.

 

Welll, ya know, I smoked. I had been smoking for 10 years before I quit. Once I started and continued this bad habit I knew that God hates it. I was not able to resist it for many years before I found enough willpower to quit. After christian tradition of euharistia I tried my best not to smoke but some days I couldn't resist. That moment (one cigarette out of every 10000 maybe) I felt really ashamed and sorry. Like a kid who is caught stealing sweeties that were forbidden by parents. And the swetness of the thing was quite bitter... The rest 9999 cigarettes out of 10000 went fine. I was chatting and surrounding myself with misterious clouds of fume, trying different tastes from menthol to cherry and experimenting with every offer of tobacco companies.
Can you explain me on this example if I really hated smoking or if I really thought that God hates\doesn't hate smoking? Do you think that I thought that moment that God hates me?

 

Pedophillia is a sexual orientation for sure, no one wakes up one morning and becomes that.

Victims? gotta be having a laugh right, because just how many MILLIONS of victims have the Christians already created with their abominable laws and asexuality.

 

Well I commend you for being able to quit, I know from experience it is no easy feat. I smoked for ten years too. I quit on March 3 2005

I believe that you thought God hated that you were smoking. But beyond that it really isn't my say, that is your relationship with your Lord. Perhaps he spoke to you, I wouldn't doubt you if you said the Lord spoke to you. It wouldn't be my place or my right to doubt that.

All do respect, I am not trying to take away from your accomplishment, but what did it take to kick the habit a week, month, year, even two years? Sorry that really pales in comparison to the 20 years I spent trying to break my sexuality. Just to start out, I never picked up anything lit it on fire and forced the fumes into my body become nauseated and ill and force myself to do it again to become gay. It started when I was a seven year old boy. I began to crush on my swimteam coach. It was innocent I don't know if he even knew or was aware that a little boy could feel that way. But I only wanted to impress him, that and hug him. I didn't know why, I just did.

I struggled with my sexuality from then through my trends and early to mid twenties. Those struggles included confessing to my parents my feelings. Praying countless nights. I lost sleep, when pressing didn't work I reached out to the church. I did all the things they suggested stored saying junk food, exercised a lot more dated girls and so on.

I then became desperate I sacrificed anything I could to let Jesus know I was serious, I stopped listening to music stopped paying my guitar, gave up reading anything but the bible. To the point all I could do it's kneel and pray. It still want enough. I stopped looking at emails talking to friends everything I have was not enough so I prayed and prayed. The silence was defining. I wasn't discouraged I just need to do more. I fasted, nothing, I prayed nothing I sacrifice nothing.

I became depressed my personality became dark, Jesus apparently didn't see my sacrifice as worthy I had nothing left to give that wouldn't earn me prison time. So I could only conclude that God didn't value my sacrifices there was no way to please him. I was 22 when I decided to start drinking. Broken and damned what was the point of sobriety. My self destruction intensified. I grew angry with God. Why did he curse me? I often asked. When I was at the lowest point something changed one night while I was contemplating suicide. Life as a homosexual wouldn't be so bad. Things changed, I felt better I accepted it myself. Suddenly I didn't feel so bad. I was encouraged to come out at age 26. My friends and my family accepted me. Soon I accepted me completely. Suddenly my future was bright. In the midst unlikely place love crept up and grabbed me. Joy filled my heart, lovefilled my dreary home. I have been with him for nearly 13 years. I love him more now than I did before.

So, it wasn't something that could be beaten by just not lighting another cigarette.

Could sinfulness bring me such magnificent blessings, peace, the greatest gifts God gives? I don't think so, it's more probable in my relationship with God that the bible has been misconstrued. You don't have to agree with me. But your statements are spoken from someone who hasn't walked in my shoes, so I don't put much value in such statements

And it is nothing like putting down the lighter. It took a lot not to be insulted by that and I apologize if I came across as rude.

 

No it isn't it's a paraphillia or a fetish. It's about sex unless you are telling me pedophiles wish to have meaningful living long term monogamous relationships with children.

Fetishes aren't sexual orientations if they are prove it.

Um... So you are saying Christianity is like pedophilia? I don't really understand.

I was saying homosexuality doesn't create victims

 

It's impossible to compare of course. Smoking habit and sexual desires have different chemistry and scale. And the time of 20 years is really pushing. I don't want to press on you since you have found peace with yourself and your family. Being far away and slightly introduced to each other I cannot take the responsibility of being your friend. And I really don't wish you anything bad.

But I would still tell you smth if you agree to read further. The thing is that you were fighting with your habit exactly like I failed as well. I was making promises on the 1st of January, to my dying loving grandfather, to a girlfriend who couldn't stand a smell etc. I was not taking any money in order not to buy cigarettes and went to nature trips where instead of having fun I was constantly struggling with a desire to smoke. I prayed. As well. Maybe not the way I should have. And you know how I succeeded? I just decided that my conduct is bad. And that I do something wrong. I noticed that I want to smoke only when I have nothing to do and cannot think of something else but smoking. So the way out didn't require that much of a sacrifice.

Every big journey consists of small steps. And my first step was not accepting something that made me a bad christian. But I accepted myself as a sinner who will not only repant but who will try to refuse of his habit. That meant that every time I opened a cigarette-box I felt ashamed. I didn't exagerate my fault but I killed in myself what I thought as a pleasure before. I noticed that cigarettes make me look differently. My skin, my smell, my outfits. I started to like myself once I was clean and kneat. Once I didn't smell and it was always a little bit pity (not too much) once I had to ruin this status with smoking every cigarette. Thus I decreased my norm from 2 packets per day to 1 packet per week. And one day I decided not to be a smoker anymore. There were no any celebrations or announcements. I still had a packet. And after 2 weeks I wanted to smoke again. And I did. And it was disgusting. And in 3 months I smoked another time. And finally in a year I through away what remained in the packet during a regular cleaning.

 

Comparing an addictive bad habit to a normal human desire seems to be comparing apples and oranges.