Gay Chrsitians: Oxymoron?

I`m not religious, but my parents were Christians, and very good people. The message I got from them re Christianity, and the way they lived Christian lives, was that Christianity provided a good set of guidelines to live by, "do unto others etc.". They strove to live strong, generous, righteous lives, and succeeded. Their take on Christianity, was that it was a personal thing, non judgemental, "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone". No one is perfect, but all can be Christians. Anyone can be a Christian, and their sins are between themselves and their God.

 

Problem is by far few if any OT laws are not followed by Christians now, and the only NT references were from mainly Paul who was NOT even a disciple of Jesus proper but a preacher so where exactly does Christianity get this anti-gay garbage from Jesus?

Using the logic of the OT and all you would all need to live like Hasidim Jews or stop pretending the OT matters much.

 

Semantics doesn't change the fact.

Yes, Christianity is a sexual perversion - Asexuality is against the natural order.

 

I didn't list any semantics. A fetish isn't a sexuality. Are you seriously saying there is no difference between pedophilia and heterosexuality?

Christianity doesn't mean asexual. Sorry.

 

According to the Bible and Church it does.

Or, can you tell me a Church that allows a sexual free for all?

 

Chapter and verse please.

There is a huge difference between asexual and sexual free for all. There are some rules about sex but they are generally maintaining monogamy. Monogamous doesn't mean asexual.

Btw, what happened to your claim that fetishes were sexuality?

 

Sort of. If you look at Corinthians you'll find that Paul says they were sinners - thieves, liars, murderers, homosexuals, etc. - but they are now defined by Christ, and are Christians. I really doubt what he meant is, "hey you're a Christian now! You'll never ever ever sin again, yay!" More likely the point is that we are not to be defined by our sins.

So it's as much an Oxymoron as a Christian thief. It depends more on how you define a thief, a homosexual, etc. I don't think the Biblical take would accept the modern definition of homosexuality, as determined by desire only.

 

All so true:

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

What seems to be even most important is that people remain silent about whatever happens in their bedrooms.
Don't preach or promote sexual behaviors, and Christians will never mention them.

 

Victims...?
The fatherless children that start appearing when sex is mentioned at all begins increasing from one generation into the next.
Soon, "bastards" are just called "children" as if fatherlessness does not matter:


NOTE:
Statistics on Fatherlessness
CHILDREN NEED BOTH PARENTS
(*)
It’s a Fact
Here’s why:

63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes. (Source: U.S. D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census).

90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes.

85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes.
(Source: Center for Disease Control).

80% of rapist motivated by displaced anger come from fatherless homes. (Source:
Criminal Justice and Behavior, Vol. 14, pp. 403-26).

71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes. (Source: National Principals Assoc. Report on the State of High Schools).

85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home. (Source: Fulton County Georgia jail populations, Texas Dept. Of Corrections, 1992).

These statistics translate to mean that children from fatherless homes are:

5 times more likely to commit suicide
32 times more likely to run away
20 times more likely to have behavioral disorders
14 times more likely to commit rape
9 times more likely to drop out of high school
20 times more likely to end up in prison

Children from "fatherless families of single mother" homes are*:
(*)
• 15.3 times more likely to have behavioral disorders
• 4.6 times more likely to commit suicide
• 6.6 times more likely to become teenaged mothers
• 24.3 times more likely to run away
• 15.3 times more likely to have behavioral disorders
• 6.3 times more likely to be in a state-operated institutions
• 10.8 times more likely to commit rape
• 6.6 times more likely to drop out of school
• 15.3 times more likely to end up in prison while a teenage
• 73% of adolescent murderers come from mother only homes
•(*) 6.3 times more likely to be in state operated institutions
(*)

Daughters who live in mother only homes are 92% more likely to divorce**

 

You can be a Christian tempted by same-sex attraction, just like you can be a Christian tempted by adultery, but I wouldn't call an active, unrepentant homosexual or heterosexual adulterer Christians. Jesus said His true followers were those who did His will, not just called Him Lord.

- - - Updated - - -

Exactly. I'd like to ask the proponents of gay marriage, which parent don't kids need, a mother or a father?

 

God hates homosexuality. Does that mean he hates homosexuality. I guess this would be true if you believe gays choose to be gay.

 

When somebody says a phrase that behind with the words "god hates..." It really means "I hate..."

So many people want to speak for God yet nobody seems willing to listen.

 

So there are no such things as Christians than? Everyone is a sinner (Romans 3:23) I notice you said people who do Christ's will, not those that don't do it and repent for it. So by your criteria only those without sin can be Christian, so nobody.

And what's the difference if you sin from birth to death, and if you sin from birth to death, and repent for it? You still aren't doing God's will.

Well there are two ways in which people can become parents, either adopt or procreate. In the case of adoption the kids being adopted either have no parents or terrible parents. I would imagine a parent isbetter than nothing. And homosexuals that procreate typically have both parents.

It's been proven that kids don't need either parent. Orphans tend to exist, now if they just winked out of existence upon the death of their parents I would say yes they need them however that isn't the case.

 

Sexual desires are really an insignificant part of it. Most people don't want a spouse for sex. They want apartner for life, somebody to care for and to care about them. Sex is merely a side dish.

I was never fighting a habit. I didn't have a habit of not being able to find compatibility with women. It'snot something one can break simply by not doing something like lighting up. There was no "lighting up gay" for me it's just who I am.

All you had to do was not smoke. It's that simple. All I had to do was not be attracted to men. The only way I could do this is self terminate.

I was told my being was bad. Since at the time I had no conduct to speak of. I was convinced of this and even believed it. I wasn't doing anything but feeling. The only way to stop that is to die. So there was no conduct I could have just not engaged in. It was my existence that was wrong, again I had no conduct in regards to my sexuality.

I noticed my feelings never stopped it wasn't that I wanted, or did anything. The only way out was to stop my brain functioning. Since there was nothing I was doing there was nothing to stop doing. Like I said I can't stop my feelings.

If you believe it's that easy, stop loving your mother. And then report to me.

My first step was being told I was wrong for having feelings and that I must control them. The second was controlling them. In 20 years I never mastered it. So since you think this is just another addiction explain to me how to turn my heart off if you don't mind.

I used to think I was a bad Christian then I realized everybody that was driving me to suicide was a bad christian. I wasn't broken. Just others had their stupid ideas on what the bible said. And because they didn't seek to understand but only to convert they failed to grow. I grew.

What habit should I refuse? Are feelings and thoughts habits? Ifso how do you stop them?

Every time I felt something for somebody, I felt ashamed. It killed all joy. If you feel nothing but shame you have no joy, no hope, no inspiriation. My feelings never brought me pleasure but shame was killing me.

I noticed charges in my self. Not outside but within. Understanding that God couldn't or wouldn't help me made me feel depressed. I must not have been worth it. Everybody was telling me what God thought. Beating me down with bible passages. I felt trapped. There absolutely was no way to stop having feelings. I was in a pit of despair.

Short of death I didn't know how to stop from feeling. Smoking is simple just stop. How does one stop feeling without killing one's self?

In my darkest days, I decided to stop listening to the devils that called themselves Christian. And after months of killing away my feelings with booze I screamed at the satanic Christians to shut up. You know what happened? I realized I wasn't broken. I listened to God for once and not all the little satanic hypocrites yelling me what they wanted God to think. I read about the passages in the bible these satanic little devils use to beat people down and realized everything the devils were saying was an assumption based on a (*)(*)(*)(*) poor translation. I studied Hebrew and Greek, learned what the scripture actually said. I discovered the little dolts that beat down homosexuals don't have a clue what the bible says. They just assume that their one of many differentbibles is the one true one.
I found out why they don't bother to understand, they are too damned lazy. Most Christians never even read the bible they just parrot out the nonsense that they read on bible hub. They don't care, they don't need to. If a homosexual Christian needs a home the Christian attitude is normally "(*)(*)(*)(*) off!!!"

I don't mean any disrespect, but I dint think you know the first thing about homosexuality. You compared it to smoking.

I mean this with the up most respect. Stop trying to fix this. There is nothing to fix. God gave you a mind and I believe a sympathetic ear. Instead of clutching onto a fabricated belief that man introduced for centuries ago, open your mind. I believe your heart is in the right place. But if the only hope Christianity offers homosexuals is heterosexuality it offers us nothing. I can't take this it of me. It's so much more than sex.

If my mother can live and accept me and not be disappointed she is better than your God. More merciful than your God. That is a problem don't you think?

 

On the other hand……….. no Christian evangelist has as powerful an outreach to the New Age Movement than near death experiencer Christian Andreason:


http://www.near-death.com/andreason.html#a11

I consider myself a Christian…… but I am an adulterer…… I do have lustful thoughts about women other than my wife???!!!!

 

Sexual fetishism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_fetishism‎
Sexual fetishism or erotic fetishism is the sexual arousal a person receives ...


26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

 

It depends upon whether one understands the Truth about their sin and will not do it again:

As Jesus told the adulterous:
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

 

Never said that, the question is, is a sin a pattern or an event? Is it followed by sincere remorse and repentance, with a desire to stop?

If you genuinely repent, you are forgiven, and a mark of true repentance is right (not perfect) behavior. A vast difference from someone parading in the streets on behalf of the gay agenda, and who says what God calls sin is not really sin. That is the same lie Satan used in Eden, "Did God really say......?"

And two parents (a mother and a father) are better than no parents. We ought not to deliberately place children in sub-optimal situations.

Exactly how do two homosexuals procreate?

Cite?

 

One of the best writings I have ever ran into explaining some of the difficulties that we are having with the writings of Paul…… involve a meeting of Paul with Rick Joyner in a visionary dream of heaven given to him back in 1995.


http://www.christianforums.com/t7729785/

Moved -I feel I am guilty of making an idol out of the Apostle Paul???!!
I am certain that I went through a phase of making Mr. Garner Ted Armstrong into something of an idol. Very probably on those occasions when I was a teenager and listened to some of his messages for the third or fourth time in one evening.....I probably would have been much better off to have read some of the Bible or better yet....pray!!!!!!

I also am certain that I have made something of an idol out of the life and ministry of the Apostle Paul......

There is nothing in the following writing that I can really disagree with:

2Peter 3:16
"As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

He also said that even looking ata woman in list is adultery.

 

doesn't apply to homosexuals. Homosexual men never left nature. They are naturally attracted to the same sex.

 

So you were mistaken.

Good never called it a sin. Sorry.

Two male or two female parents are better than no patents. If you heterosexuals would get off you behinds and adopt up all the kids there wouldn't be any left for homosexuals. But you don't so insisting they rot in a group home verses live with homosexual parents is extreme cruelty.

Duh... Exactly like every other human on the planet. They aren't. sterile.

Children don't cease to exist upon not having parents.

 

What is sub optimal? Who decides?

You aren't serious with this question? How do heteros procreate?
I guess you don't understand homosexuals and their lifelong plight.

 

Agree. But homosexualism is not about this. What you have just said is the main driving force. It is love. And the same feeling is driving people who have pets. The same reason makes people to have kids. To go to professions like firefighter, doctors and teachers. I agree that homosexuals are people and as any people - they love. But their love is not about homosexuality.

I cannot move you to fight a habit. If your homosexuality was not accepted by your wife - I would possibly try to to push your fight with a habit reasoning it with your wife's love. If your parents were unhappy with your habit I would try to revive your love towards their feelings. If it was not accepted in your society I would try to address your patriotic feelings and love to humanity. If at least you were not happy with yourself I would try to oppose your sexualty and love to you. But you told that you feel fine and everything around is fine. So I don't really have a better way out than staying who you are. Since this topic is about christian then maybe being christian and love of God is something worthy for you to reconsider? If there is nothing more precious than this temptation - there is really no chance to win.

You are exaggerating again. The temptaion of smoking and attracting to anyone is equal. it depends on the situation. If you sleep without any dreams you are not a homosexual. And I was not a smoker once sleeping. If I or you are doing something what takes all of your attention - we also don't give away ourselves towards bad habits. But at the moment of temptation it workds the same. Only at this moment we doing the choice of rather to resist it or to give up. And basically temptation itself is stronger than us.

Again you are pushing too hard. You give up before the fight and instead of a fight. A fight means that you want to win. And if you miss a hit it doesn't change anything. If you are thrown down by your opponent but haven't given up nothing inteerferes of getting up to your fet and fight again... It doesn't make any sense to give up before the fight.
Some priests don't have any sex. In their life. At all. They don't commit a suicide. They are not that highly paid for that. They just decided so. Is there any difference if they are homosexual or heterosexual if they managed to make themselves zero-sexual? Since this is possible - everything is possible.
Once you are giving up smoking you are afraid to get fat or to get nervous. Or to lose the friends who are still smoking. This is about the same. Some people scare themselves that they will die if they give up smoking and it is better to continue smoking to live more...

This is the easiest thing. Close your eyes, concentrate you ears on distant or close sounds, relax in order not to feel touches... Feelings are ruled by will of a person. Not them rule us. Train your will and things that were impossible befor would be easy.

Love is different. You can't stop to love and start to love that easy. But love and sexuality (any) have dofferent nature. Kids can love. From the very begininng. But their sexuality comes long after they are able to love. And not necessarily sex and love go together.

Of what I heard you have never tried. You tortured yourself instead of fighting a habit. And if you torture youself for being bad you only get upset and frustrated about it. But there is zero chance to change.

First, you need to find a motivation. Without a motivation there is nothing. Look for a love (above) that will motivate you. Then accept a failure as a temporary failure. Failure is not pleasant. So don't put up with it. But be ready for it. If you want to remake yourself fast - I don't know the way. My way is long. Thirdly you need a good plan. Every temptation constructs our life. It prescribes us people around us. Daily routine. Smaller habits that are following the most important. Once I was smoking I was hanging up with the guys who smoke in a smoking room. They were nice guys but nothing except for smoking room was uniting us. I had chewing gum and liked to throw cigarette buds into thrash can with fingers. All of it neds to pass. And these smaller habits need to go as well. I mean all of it can stay but as a part of different structure. So you can meet with the guys after work if they are important (bowling, cinema whatever but smoking). You can chew a gum but not after smoking. and not to buy it together with a cigarette pack. And if you want to throw cmth to thrash can it can be smth else. But all this routine needs to be crushed. If you buy a pack of cigarettes and a gum it means that smoking is stronger than your will. You haven't yet breathed in any micotine and ash but it already possesses you. Without knowing your routine that is caused not by your personality but by your hoomosexuality - it is impossible to give exact advices.

Sorry but if someone told you to kill yourself he is a bad christian. But if anyone tells that Bible forbids homosexuality - it is absolutely true... You could have grown out of the Bible. According to non-christian beliefs you could have overgrown christians. But you are definetely not a christian since you have done that. This is the choice you have made. It's an inevitable consequence of every bad habit.

Your homosexual routine. But that can be stopped only if you have motivation. And I haven't seen anything in your speech so far that could give you a good motivation.
Feelings and thoughts are of course habits.
Christians usually pary if they think smth wrong. If your motivation is non-christian it is also possible to have a dominant thought and a dominant feeling that would b stronger than anything else.

Feeling ashamed is great! It means that your soul is fighting. Once you lose the shame - things went too far. And shame shouldn't be killing. It's a natural pain after you have missed a punch in a fight with a bad habit. If you miss a punch - it aches, right? But if it aches it is still not a reason to give up. Since you have survived after missed hit the fight continues.
And don't punish yourself for doing wrong. If you feel ashamed - you already felt that you did it wrong. Don't be afraid to lose the pleasure of your bad habit. If you feel ashamed afteer it - there is no pleasure for you. It is just an illusional and timely pleasure. Which leads only to frustration. It's better to understand what happened, why and what to do in order not to get into this very trouble again.

Hey. I know why God hasn't helped you. It seems so. Since you were torturing yourself and leaning to the suicicde God just couldn't help you with such a nonsense. I don't how you prayed and what did you ask and what did you promise and what did you do, but God never helps us in bad initiatives. So it is very good that He didn't let you to kill yourself. What's the problem then? Youa re still what you are? If that's a problem - fight with it.

You really thing that you know better than the church what is written in Bible? You really thing that all christians but you are satanic killers? Let's not go deeper into it. After booze people rarely make any sense, but often yell at people.

The Bible is one.

Not 'most' but furely 'some'. True.

There is no homosexual christian. You have just expressed your hatred towards people who didn't know hebrew and greek, but still tried to help you to become a good christian. You in your part call yourself tru christian because you are not as bad as those who tried to help you... Do you feel youself how far from christianity this idea is. But it definetely helps your habit to kill the natural shame of doing smth bad.

Any comparison is not 100% exact. I told that homosexuality and smoking have different biology. And they have different sociology as well. But for a christian both are sins and a method to fight is the same.

Thanks. I don't insist on any fixes. If you found a peace with your closest people and yourself it is not already that bad. Christianity is not about sexuality. It is about love. If you have a trauma that makes any sex impossible it doesn't mean that you cannot love and be loved.

Most mothers love their kids no matter what. And God loves us even more. The problems start when love is confused with something else. Problem is when one uses someones love without loving in return. But if you stopped to be christian you certainly don't have any less civil rights or violated against your mom. Not being a christian in modern world is not a crime.

 

I don't know, who decides the gay agenda is right?