Gina Haspel, C.I.A. Deputy Director, Had Leading Role in Torture

You've not presented any facts. Just what you have imagined.

 

No, he has presented facts. I pointed you in the right direction with Article VI of the Constitution, but it appears right now you prefer to ignore it.

 

2: This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

Make a relevant point if you can. That makes the Geneva convention applicable to everyone. Does nothing to support the argument that the 5th, 8th, 9th, 10th and 14th Amendment of the Constitution is applicable to captured Alqaeda.

You wont find how long anyone was waterboarded for in the Constitution Einstein.

 

The Geneva Conventions are a treaty, Einstein. If you don't understand that, you have a personal problem with comprehension. More likely you are simply unable to admit when you're wrong.

I made no claim regarding the BOR applying to AQ. That is another matter.

 

Well, that is THE matter being debated here in this thread. That the 5th, 8th, 9th, 10th and 14th Amendment of the Constitution prohibits the US from waterboarding some captured foreign combatant in a foreign land.
What am I wrong about?

 

Wow, your reading comprehension IS poor.

The title of this thread you can read at the top, but it is that Gina Haspel had a leading role in torture. As most threads tend to do, the conversation wanders a bit, but I don't see anything about the BOR applying to AQ in the title.

Open your eyes and read my friend. Haspel had a leading role in torture, and now she is to become the head of the CIA.

 

My comprehension is just fine. Here is the debate.

You are still clueless.

 

You've apparently never read the Constitution, much less the Bill of Rights, or even want to know. This is Constitution 101, not for you but for anyone who really wants to know.

Article VI Paragraph 2 has been covered ad nauseum, so the rest in detail.

Those who were tortured at Gitmo, which includes waterboarding, universally accepted as TORTURE, were denied ALL the following constitutional protections.

5th Amendment - This one protects the right of Due Process for any person. That means everyone is innocent unless and until proven guilty by a valid court of law. That also means no one can be punished unless and until proven guilty and an appropriate sentence be given by a judge for the crime for which the accused is found guilty. All that requires EVIDENCE for which the prosecution has the BURDEN OF PROOF that the accused did indeed commit the crime for which he/she is charged. None of those tortured were granted any due process rights.

6th Amendment (note I failed to include this one, my bad) - All those accused (there are NO restrictions, just the accused) of committing any crime have the right to a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury. None of those who were tortured were granted a trial, much less one by a jury.

8th Amendment - Cruel and unusual punishment. All (no restrictions are stated by the 8th Amendment) those at Gitmo were inhumanely tortured, some were renditioned and all were put in cages. This should be a no brainer.

9th Amendment - This one protects all unenumerated/unspecified rights of the people. All those at Gitmo had ALL their rights violated.

10th Amendment - The federal government is prohibited from asserting powers not specifically granted to it by the Constitution. Those belong to the states or The People. The Executive branch of the federal government (in this case the CIA) has no power granted to it to violate or ignore the Constitution. All government servants are required to take an Oath to defend, protect and preserve the Constitution. All those who took part in the torture program violated their Oath of Office.

14th Amendment - This one protects the right of due process (see also 5th Amendment) and equality under the law (which is among other things, the Constitution) for anyone within the jurisdiction of the federal government. Note the last part of Section 1 - "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

 

You don't have a clue. AND waterboarding isn't a part of a criminal prosecution.

 

Sorry to disillusion you but I don't debate. Debating is a game with a winner and loser. I'm not here to play games, I'm here to discuss and there is nothing further I see worthwhile I want to discuss with you. Get an education first, then maybe you'll have the capacity to be able to discuss this issue intelligently. If you bring up a point of interest, I may respond, but not to you specifically, just for the purpose of discussion.

 

I have a masters in economics and a Doctorate of Jurisprudence. Your not qualified to make such assessments.

 

If after I post specifics about the Constitution with respect to those who have been tortured at Gitmo (among other issues I've posted), your only response is:

it's more than obvious your posts contradict your claim (i.e. you're full of it), nor do I care about your alleged background even if it is true. Your posts make no sense or are lacking in any detail or you just make crap up about me in response to my posts. None of those qualify as a discussion on your part.

 

Actually, I replied

"That would be applicable to US citizens . Not enemy combatants captured in foreign nations."(in reference to your claims about the 5th, 8th, 9th, 10th and 14th Amendments)

 

That is 3, according the CIA/GWB administration. And them lied to the world about anything, including how many times they waterboarded. GWB admitted that one of them 3 was waterboarded just 1 time, but that was actually 83. That's not a "mistake", buddy. You're being lied to and so that number 3 is a joke to reality.

 

Ok I'll bite since you provided a point for discussion. You have a habit of making unsupported claims. This is the second one (the first was your claim that the CIA followed "regulations" for which you provided no material evidence).

The burden of proof always rests with the claimant.

So now please provide proof of your claim. Where in the Constitution is there any exception that specifically says it doesn't apply to "enemy combatants captured in foreign nations"? And please note post #383 where I provided material support for the fact that it applies to PERSONS and within JURISDICTION, period. "You don't have a clue" is NOT a valid argument. If that's the best you can come up with, there is no intelligent discussion that can be pursued with you.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Zubaydah#Waterboarding

The Bush administration in 2007 said that Zubaydah had been waterboarded once.

They waterboarded him 83 times! GWB is a liar, and you can not trust him or the CIA that they only waterboarded 3 people. Period.

 

Nice rant.

 

I got it backed up by a source in post 391.

 

Judging from the substance of your posts, your degrees were acquired at Wal Mart.

 

I can imagine the quality of the “blame Bush” site. You can find sources for 2 + 2 = 5 on the internet.

 

It's wikipedia, with 3 footnotes to that claim. lol

 

Who wrote the Wikipedia piece ?? What are the 3 footnotes ??

 

Bush never said they waterboarded anyone just one time and 1 time is 20 - 40 seconds when they would stop to give the prisoner a chance to catch his breath.

 

Such witty repartee from the peanut gallery.

 

I sourced it, so look it up yourself.