Hong Kong! Remember Tiananmen Square!

Discussion in 'Asia' started by Starjet, Jul 29, 2019.

  1. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I disagree. And I even showed my arguments. Prove my arguments to be wrong and I will have to agree. Links to opinion of different people who may have the arguments which you don't know and never considered important may make me to agree with them, but not you. You will always depend on someone's opinion. Apparently not mine...
     
  2. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    Any.
    You think of tyranny and liberty as of a doctrine that there are the good and the bad. I think differently. I think that every person may perform good and bad. So if there is an actual example or imaginary conflict between tyranny and liberty I will definetely tell you what can be done to improve the relationship and essence of the conflict. But within your suggestion I could only follow Rand's example, which is that one side is always right (no matter what) and the other is always wrong (no matter what... Frankly speaking I cannot use the word 'liberty' for such a way of thinking. I also cannot find it right and justy.
     
  3. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ah, you see here’s the rub. This board is about Hong Kong, and while one’s view of money, capitalism, reason, and Ayn Rand will nudge one to one side or the other of the Tyranny vs Liberty principle, it’s best discussed here. http://www.politicalforum.com/index...-liberty-and-the-pursuit-of-happiness.556951/

    Come, meet, you can disparage Ayn Rand, mock her view of capitalism as naive, belittle her arguments as immature, denigrate her view of Man as a hero free to live his life as he sees fit, but if reality is real, and reason is logic, you will never defeat her.

    Give it a go.
     
  4. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh, well, if reason and reality are your moral guides, you’ll change your mind—especially if you get a taste of tyranny first hand, say, like, the Tibetan Monks? Or maybe like the Tiananmen Square hero who stood alone in front of tanks? If not, best of luck, though the invitation still holds.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  5. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the ad. If it was 10 years ago I would definetely visit these discussions. But at the moment I don't want it. The situation in Hong Kong is an actual fact of modern politics, which comes from naive inclanations, mistaken conclusions and false assumptions. It is sort of too late to deal with theory in this very case. But if I got time and find some motivation I will definetely show up there. For now you need to understand that the point of view of Rand is clear for me and I don't regard her views as a Holy Bible. In this very situation your opinion is more interesting for me and since you don't have one trying to find the answers in livertarianism - that's a sort of an answer I accept. This is quite enough. Thanks again.
     
  6. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    The Hong Kongers dont want to be involuntary organ doners for the communist dictatorship on the mainland
     
  7. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    Tibetan monks are a product of tyranny. They don't have any liberty there, which is sort of understandable and acceptable for a monk... As for Tiananmen victims they were revolutionaries who died trying to squeeze into power.
    In this cases I see an old 'good' fight for power. And for me there are no moral values here. Whoever wins this battle will have the power and those who didn't would get status of victim. If tibetan monks or Tiananmen revolutionaries would win over chinese government it would cause more blood and victims. This is important for a value of human life, which is certainly a value for me and my kind. I accept only one thing on Earth which is more important than human life. If you guess it right - you will make a huge leap in understanding my ethics... Don't try to be philosophical - get more arithmetical... :) Once you do that - you will get surprised how logical and pure is my ethics and what ugly disproportions and assumptions you have to believe trusting your moral authorities like ms Rand or international propaganda.
     
  8. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    If they protested all this time against such a practice or a law I would have been on their side. But unfortunately it is not so. Are you aware of the law used as a motivation for all these people to place themselves as hostages in a terrorist attack against the economy of China? You have so many 'free press' around. :) It shouldn't be a problem to find out.
     
  9. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    I dont judge the protesters

    They see red china as a danger to human rights in their country
     
  10. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    Panoptics? Is that the thing?
     
  11. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    So you don't know... You were not told... You are not even interested to learn what made those people to leave their families, job, hobbies and go to the protests...

    Once all of a sudden tens of thousand Hong Kongers decided to go to the streets and to fight for their freedom against Red and Communist China. Without any organization. Without any support. Just because. :) That's a good way to analyze world policy! Very convinient. :) And the conclusions will always and definetely stay on the good side. Nice.
     
  12. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    English is not my native language. Unfortunately I haven't understood your point. I usually try to estimate the situation 'from above'. That's true.

    But the only thing on Earth which is more valuable than a human life according to my ethics is different. It's much easier. No philosophy. Pure arithmetics. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  13. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    I think the protests are a spontaneous reaction to the menace of communist china
     
  14. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    How do you imagine it to yourself from the view of a regular Hong Konger. He is born. He goes to school. He gets his first job. He gets married. And then all of a sudden he gets 'spontaneous' understanding, which cimulataneously happens to tens of thousands of people. And then all of a sudden the world media sends everyone there to tell the world all the 'truth'... But what happened at that point when the 'decision' was made? Nothing?

    Look. You probably have seen lots of crazy people with something like 'the end is near!' sign. They represent a christian philosophy, have a huge organization opportunities and common philosophy which unites millions of people to a certain extent starting from what to eat, finishing with which way to die. But you don't see tens of thousands of them coming to the streets and even if something bad for their religion happens it doesn't get such an attention from media. Why?

    Try to think yourself. That is going to be a curse and a blessing soon.
     
  15. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As I said, the invitation still stands. I am not arguing, Rand or Objectivism on this board. If you wish to do so, go here:http://www.politicalforum.com/index...-liberty-and-the-pursuit-of-happiness.556951/

    I post what I post to promote my view of the CPC tyranny seeking to slaughter Hong Hong’s free souls.

    To the creative minds, to the valuers of life, to those who know the joy of a first love’s kiss, GET THE HELL OUT NOW. Murder is coming.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  16. Yazverg

    Yazverg Well-Known Member

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    Chinese communists have more patience comparing to audience of propaganda. These protests will not make China to spill blood. We need to wait to see that in the news. For now the democracy is safe. We need to wait for bloody provocations. The peaceful protesters need to get some weaponry. Some policemen need to be killed, they need to attack some police to get another 'peaceful protester' from their dirty hands etc. Don't be in a rush. :) We still have our minutes before the end of the world. :) Enjoy. :fishing:
     
  17. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ayn Rand’s words?The Holy Bible? Only as metaphor in the same sense Copernicus’s On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Bodies is the Holy Bible of Science.

    Taking cheap pot shots at Ayn Rand and me is unbecoming for a human mind.

    Invitation still stands.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  18. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    lol this coming from a guy who support protester beating bystander if they have different political view.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  19. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    dude I study china for many years, I doubt you ever even been to china, office chair general ;) there are peaceful protester like on sunday, then there a lot violent protester as well. in any country protester occupy airport, stop train, ran sack building etc going to jailed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  20. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    I suppose you have to have some knowledge about the brutality and utter inhumanity of the communist dictatorship in mainland china

    Hong Kong is a living example of what a democratic society that respects civil liberties is supposed to be

    I dont want to be a communist worker ant and neither do they
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  21. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    Lol, you are a peice of work, aren't you? Why would I hate someone as superficial and devoid of reason or merit as Rand.

    No, I don't hate her any more than I hate any other poor deluded soul sputtering nonsensical gibberish.

    I'm only trying to help you explore your worship of her and just how ugly some of ideas she has put in your head are.

    I don't mind exploring the merits of Libertarianism with you at all. You actually have a good writing style - if given to over the top hyperbole - but I am not going to pretend to be able to deprogram someone from a nasty fetish :)

    Unless you really are getting tokens for quoting her, in which case, carry on.

    As for your disdain for democracy, you still have not explained how an alternative is going to work without sinking into dictatorship.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  22. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    Didn't this all start when China, of which Hong Kong is a province, decided to make HK residents subject to Chinese law and Chinese courts?
     
  23. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Nonsensical Gibberish of Ayn Rand

    Ayn Rand on Reason: 'To live, man must hold three things as the supreme and ruling values of his life: Reason—Purpose—Self-esteem. Reason, as his only tool of knowledge—Purpose, as his choice of the happiness which that tool must proceed to achieve—Self-esteem, as his inviolate certainty that his mind is competent to think and his person is worthy of happiness, which means: is worthy of living.--Damn. that's just bloody insane. Crazy fkn btch. (Let each independent mind decide for itself the morality and reality of her statement.)

    And more: "Reason is man’s tool of knowledge, the faculty that enables him to perceive the facts of reality. To act rationally means to act in accordance with the facts of reality. Emotions are not tools of cognition. What you feel tells you nothing about the facts; it merely tells you something about your estimate of the facts. Emotions are the result of your value judgments; they are caused by your basic premises, which you may hold consciously or subconsciously, which may be right or wrong." WTF! She's lost her frigging mind. (Let any who seek peace, love, prosperity, joy, and happiness try to achieve them without thinking)

    And even more: "To live, man must hold three things as the supreme and ruling values of his life: Reason—Purpose—Self-esteem. Reason, as his only tool of knowledge—Purpose, as his choice of the happiness which that tool must proceed to achieve—Self-esteem, as his inviolate certainty that his mind is competent to think and his person is worthy of happiness, which means: is worthy of living." (Ugly! Ugly! Ugly! What in the world is she thinking of, if at all. (Let each soul look deep inside itself and ask, "What kind of being am I? Brute, mouse, coward, joe schmoo, or a reasoning being reaching for its best to touch its brightest star in the name of its highest value, its own life."

    Yup. She's a nutcase.

    How to prevent a dictatorship: The path the Founding Fathers took, without the errors of the "General Welfare Clause", and the compromise with slavery.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  24. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In any revolution, you are going to give the authorities the finger, and tell the innocents, "Fight or get the hell out of the way". Revolutions aren't dowagers playing bridge on Sunday afternoon at the Ladies Auxillary Club. They are led by radical idealists fighting for a new tomorrow. Sometimes that's righteous, The Founding Fathers and the America Revolution", and sometimes its bloody, hellish, horror, the Red Guard and Mao's Cultural Revolution come to mind.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  25. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    so you support protester beat up or kill bystander, block passenger (include American/UK citizens) at airport, block train station? simple yes or no is fine.
     

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