How To Finally Resolve the Abortion Debate

Voting Thread Open!

The abortion debate. Its been going on since the very dawn of man itself... or at least so it seems. The central issue of the debate revolves around figuring out how to balance the presumed rights as a human of unborn babies with the rights of pregnant mothers... Or more specifically, figuring out exactly at what point during pregnancy certain rights of the unborn should overrule the rights of the mother to abort the pregnancy.

I lay things out in those terms, as I'm pretty sure that we can all agree that, prior to a sperm melding with an egg cell, neither the sperm nor the egg should be thought to have any more rights than your average human skin cell... and that, after birth, the rights of a new born baby... at least as it relates to the right to life etc. ought to be thought of as at least on the same level as any of the mother's rights... at least... I think so.

Right?.... We can all at least agree on that much.... Right???....

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Well if not, then I'm not really sure what to say. So I'm going forward with the assumption.
Which of course still leaves us with the question... at what point from conception to birth does a fetus's right to life overtake a mother's right to abort that fetus?

One of the unfortunate things I tend to see in abortion-related debates is people falling into the trap of believing that there are only one or two possible answer to that question. But like most forms of binary thinking, binary thinking in this case will often lead to unnecessary division, and false-dichotomies which can obscure good arguments and useful solutions and compromises.

Another unfortunate occurrence I see in debates like these, is that people will state a point at which they believe abortion should be allowed or disallowed, but will fail to give any logical reasoning for why they choose that particular point... often times providing instead, a highly illogical reason, or many times no reasoning at all!

Honestly, I think a big reason for why arguments for this particular subject get so heated (other than that it has to do with babies i.e. one step away from puppies, and life and death) is not because of the positions people take, but because so many make such bad arguments for those positions. I think that if we all just stepped back and thought a little more about the reasoning behind our positions, we might still disagree with each-other, but I'm sure the discussions would end up being a lot less contentious.

So I would like to avoid all those pitfalls for this thread if we can...
As such, I'm asking that any suggestion made here include two things:

1. A specific period during pregnancy (e.g. week 20) after which most abortions should not be allowed and before which abortions should not be disallowed, or a range (e.g. week 20-24), before the lower bound of which abortions should not be disallowed and above the upper bound should not be allowed, or at a particular event (e.g. birth or a particular measurable development) and
   
   
2. A specific well thought out reason for why you picked that particular period or range.

...At least that's what I'd like to see for the standard 'particular period during pregnancy' type suggestions. Though I don't want to limit the discussion such as to preclude the more out-of-the-box type ideas like changing things about access to contraceptives, removing fetuses in ways that keep it alive, or putting well-reasoned conditions on where abortions should take place. etc. If you have suggestions like those, please feel free to post them. Though to keep things somewhat focused, I think it'll be a good idea if we leave discussion on punishments for law breakers out of the conversation for now. Its an important aspect I think, but I believe the limits should be defined before we consider too much what should happen to people who go outside of them. Of course complicating the issue just a bit are considerations for things like rape and the life/health of the mother...

BTW, I'll be compiling all the suggestions made, out-of-the-box or otherwise, into a list that we can vote on latter.
I'll get the extreme ones out of the way now:

Where Should The Cutoff Line for Abortions be Placed?:

-Conception (Week 0): No Exceptions. Because Life Begins at Conception
-Conception (Week 0): Exception for Rape or Health of Mother. Because Life Begins at Conception
-Birth (Week ??): Because That is When a Baby No Longer Depends On Its Mother to Live​

Now there should obviously be quite a few different options in between those extremes. I have my own views of course, which I'll be posting latter. Oh, and before anyone asks... no, I do not believe that any of the reasons I just put in the list are good justifications. Just putting them there to get them out of the way. I'm sure you guys can do a lot better.

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Of course I don't expect this debate wont still rage on and on long after this thread for eons to come, but I do hope at least that a thread like this and the ranked vote which will accompany it latter on might help to get more people thinking about and discussing the issue in more relevant and meaningful terms.

Lastly, I should mention that this thread is part of a multipart series of solutions-based topics and ranked votes I've been setting up to delve deeper into a variety of topics and issues our country faces. And this may very well be the most decisive topic in the list. At the same time, that also means it'll be a good test for just how well Ranked Voting is at producing compromise positions. For more info, feel free to check out any of the related threads:
Solutions Oriented Approach to Restoring Meaningful Civil Discourse
What To Do To Reduce Partisan Dysfunction In Politics
Ranked Vote: Discussion Thread (includes schedule)​

And Remember... how, how much, or how severely anyone (mother, father, doctor)
should be punished as it relates to this issue are out of scope for this particular thread. Please just try to focus on what should or shouldn't be allowed by the law (and why). And as always, try to keep discussion here civil and nonpartisan, and just generally stay in line with the basic forum rules. Also, no overly graphic images please.
Thanks!

-Meta

 

Where Should The Cutoff Line for Abortions be Placed?:

-Lovemaking (Week 0): Because Any Form of Abortion is Murder
-Conception (Week 0): Because Life Begins at Conception
-Conception (Week 0): Because since no one knows exactly when a zygote becomes a child, it must be assumed to qualify as one
-Nervous System (Week 12): Because the baby’s senses are developing and it looks pretty human at that stage
-Viability (Week 20): Because the earliest surviving baby was born at just over 21 weeks
-Thalamic Afferents (Week 20): Because its been theorized that connections between afferents may be capable of pain transmission
-Thalamocortical Fibers (Week 23): Because a fetus cannot suffer feel or perceive pain without Thalamocortical Fibers
-Viability (Week 24): Because that's when the law defines a fetus as becoming a child
-Viability (Week 24): Because that's when a fetus is able to live outside the woman without artificial means
-Thalamocortical Fibers (Week 29): Because a fetus cannot suffer feel or perceive pain without Functional Thalamocortical Fibers
-Pain Perception Dvmnt (Week 23-29): Because a fetus cannot suffer feel or perceive pain without Functional Thalamocortical Fibers
-Pain Perception Dvmnt (Week 20-29): Because this is the period in which a fetus develops the structures necessary for pain perception
-Mental Life (Week 29): Because fetal consciousness cannot and has not been observed to occur before this point
-Birth (Week ??): Because That is When a Baby No Longer Depends On Its Mother to Live
-Birth (Week ??): Because Women Should Always Have the Right to do What They Want With Their Body
-There should be Exceptions in cases of Rape
-There should be Exceptions if Health of the Mother is Threatened
-There should be Exceptions if Life of the Mother is Threatened
-There should be Exceptions for Certain Fetal Abnormalities
-There should be Exceptions for Incest
-There should be Exceptions based on Ability of Parent to Afford and Care for the Child
-There should be No Exceptions to the Cutoff Point
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Other Ideas:

-Graduated Restrictions and Requirements for Women Seeking Abortion as Gestational Age Increases
-Use Tech to Remove Human Reproduction to an Industrial Process
-General Abortions Paid for by Person Getting It (Not the Government)
-Loan Program to Help Fund People Who Want to Get General Abortion
-Improve Availability of Contraceptives
-Where Abortions banned, State/Govmt/Taxpayer money used for any costs needed to keep pre-term infants alive​