The American dream is the belief that anyone, regardless of where they were born or what class they were born into, can attain their own version of success in a society in which upward mobility is possible for everyone. Do you believe this is till true?
People would not be trying to get here (or Europe) if it didn't exist. Of course it still exists. There has always been those who give up on it, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Some groups of people are being shut out, and some other groups might be shut out in the future, but its still there for most.
I still believe it could exist in a free society that practices Liberty. Equal opportunity for upward mobility can only exist in a free society. There might be pockets of it still left, but the American Dream is being displaced by the Dystopian Nightmare. Be careful where you lay your head down...
Not the same dream. The dream of free stuff is not the same as the dream of opportunity. But I know men that went from being born on a dirt farm to owning large companies and the most part of a town.
I meant opportunity and I didn't say anything about free stuff. Those words came from you. Most people who come here looking for the American dream are ready to roll up their sleeves and work, even from dawn to dusk, and they do.
Yeah, those are my words. Most of the people jumping the river want to live in America because it is free, but not because we practice freedom. We got free food, free, health care, free housing..
You really believe that, don't you Cool beans. Enjoy the free food, free, health care, free housing. LOL.
Yeah I find it difficult to believe that these river jumpers are immigrants. They are not here to immigrate, there are here to settle in with their own culture instead of adapting American Values. And I can garunteee that I don't enjoy the bill We are getting for all their "free" America.
Ok, so everyone else has free food, free, health care, free housing, but not you. Gotha. Sounds like you are complaining about someone presumably getting something you are not getting, and you are jealous. Is the American dream dead? No, it is not, unless you are a natural born pessimist, because in that case all hope is dead by definition and you'll spend the rest of your life complaining.
I didn't say taxes. You sound like you are jealous because you think everyone else is getting everything free. It also sounds like you don't have anything to say about the topic, so I wish you a nice day.
Well then I'll wish you a nice day as well... ...I wouldn't want you to get jealous cause I got something you didn't.
That 'dream' is being killed by hatred and xenophobia. When you assume people are coming for 'the wrong reasons', it engenders resentment toward them. Resentment builds and grows into hatred. We see it everyday here at PF!
I guess it depends what you view as “the dream”. Mobility to what? I used to work a lot harder and make more money, but now I’m far happier working less, making less money, and acquiring less material things. I find with extra time my mental health, physical health, social relationships, and outlook on life has improved exponentially. I think obsessing on the classical “American Dream” from the 50s is a sure way to live a shitty life for stuff you can’t take with you when you die.
Possible? Yes. Likely? No. And it was always that way. It's largely impossible in a place with a birth-based caste system, I suppose, but at least they don't ruin/waste their lives chasing dreams that don't materialize.
The amount of work and sacrifice required to achieve 'the American dream' is higher than most people's capability. And while its true that people's capability to work and sacrifice immediate gratification for greater future prosperity seems to be declining, so are the avenues of opportunity available, and how many people those avenues are available to. For example, the average cost of a home is 10X higher than ~50 years ago, relative to average income. So its 10X harder to own a home, and 10X more expensive to cover the cost of housing, given that the cost of housing scales pretty closely to the cost of buying a home, even for renters. That in itself makes it harder to 'live the dream' and its not the only variable declining.
Very true. People waste much of their lives chasing dreams, when they could slow down and appreciate the thigs they already have, - like their health, and relationships. Even worse when people work jobs they hate and they only thing they look forwards to is the next Friday.
'Having things' leads to happier, healthier people, at least to an extent. For example- children tend to 'do better' in pretty much all aspects of life when raised in a 'stable home', which directly correlates with owning a home (vs renting). Cityscape (huduser.gov) Causation not proved, of course. Could be a 'chicken vs egg' thing going on, but whatever it is, its been going on for a long time, and we see more and more problems in society as less and less people can afford to buy a home.
If "having things" is understood as "stable home", then I agree, bu t usually "having things", is understood as "having stuff", which doesn't typically bring happiness, because people never measure up to the next class of people above them, (and there is always another class). Suicides are going through the roof, and its not because people don't have "stuff".
My point was it depends on which 'stuff'. Certainly having a more expensive car than the neighbor isn't a healthy priority, but having a reliable car is helpful.
I think you are right to a point. I think there is a curve. A certain amount of “stuff” does greatly increase one’s life, but a certain point, more stuff results in very little increase in happiness. On a graph the line would go from a steep increase to being much more level. If that makes sense. When that line starts to level off, I think focusing more on living rather than “getting” is more beneficial physically, mentally, socially, spiritually, etc.
The "American Dream" was always a marketing ploy. It was never true to begin with, at least not in the universal and neutral way the rosy glasses tell some folks it was. If anything, it's more realistic now than it was in decades past.
You can still be successful in America today, but it's harder now because everything is changing so fast. Last Sunday's 60-Minutes program was a real eye-opener about how many career fields will become obsolete in the next few years because of AI and the robotic technology that will accompany it. See it here https://www.cbs.com/shows/video/SR6ZcCYjoD3O0sn_ZmVUw87daawsZ5V3/
I think we are going to need to rethink everything in the fairly near future. The concept of having a job I think will just not be a possibility for most people. I don't think this will be a bad thing, though it will be a bumpy road for society to adapt to the new reality.
