It just makes sense to manufacture in China

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Balto, May 23, 2020.

  1. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    And, that's the bottleneck.
     
  2. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about NAFTA, I never studied it, but I do know the reduction in US manufacturing employment is not from China.
    I plotted that once. We lost the jobs before the rise in imports.
    upload_2020-6-24_13-45-23.png

    [​IMG]
     
  3. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have talked about automation many times. It will implode capitalism as the lemmings flow over the precipice. The Luddites were right but just too early. Of course this assumes robotics and automation replaces even the jobs being done by people in China today.

    For if humans are no longer needed to provide what people consume how will people have a disposable income to buy what robots make? Capitalism requires that income or it implodes.

    When we moved from an agri based economy to a manufacturing economy we needed people to work those factories and indeed we didn't have enough so we brought in immigrants to help us man the factories.. But with automation there is no new sector to take the place of the displaced. And a few intelligent people are studying this now and no one has a clue what work will provide the essential income.

    And that is another reason we must reverse this neo liberal insanity and get manufacturing jobs back the ones robots so far are not doing. We will need every possible job when robots are doing many jobs..

    The only way out of the delimma is UBI to supplement the few jobs that will be available for people.

    We will have a tiny middle a few wealthy and most will be poor. And wars galore.

    Proving the Luddites were on top of it and far more intelligent than their shortsighted critics.
     
  4. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hell just look at where most our goods are made! China. By American companies who moved there whereas we once made all that stuff here. And robots are not making those goods, the Chinese are. So your plotting has bad info obviously. It is hard to find a good made in America. Just look!

    For most of the time we have sold to China we sold them scrap ! As most of our goods were made in China.
     
  5. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    This is the one you need to figure out.
    You won't do it by blaming China.
     
  6. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Where else are we going to import deadly pandemics from?
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
  7. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Kansas.
     
  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    if people don't have jobs, capitalism dies
     
  9. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yet some manufacturing jobs won't get rid of humans for a long time. No need to send those jobs to sweat shops elsewhere.. Given we need to employ Americans as automation takes jobs away from us.

    We can't all work fast food and Walmart. Impossible. And those are working poor jobs .

    Replacing good jobs here with working poor jobs is insanely stupid if our own people matter. Which clearly they don't matter at all.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  10. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Commerce is not about 'ideas'. It's about viable business ventures. Obviously the US is capable of manufacturing yo-yo's but can there be a 'viable' business venture to do this? Ask this same question about thousands or millions of other products currently imported. I can make yo-yo's in my shop but will it ever be a viable business venture...no. And today, in the US and most local areas, the entry cost to start a business is just not practical for the myriad inexpensive imports.

    Do you think an arid island nation worries about imports? Do you think they care about trade imbalances? Across the board, each nation must decide what they wish to import and what they can export. There is no one general rule...
     
  11. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Either the US can compete with imports or they can't! If the US does not wish to do as you say above then don't manufacture those types of products that push the US in that direction. The US consumer demands less expensive products and services and when the US can't deliver they seek imports. If you wish to lock down the nation with no imports you'll have a true mess on your hands...
     
  12. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Again...all diatribe and no substance?
     
  13. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well that's fine, but the problem is when there are chronic large trade deficits.
    In that case, it's obvious the US doesn't really have an alternative.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  14. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Ok...define an actual problem of a trade deficit?
     
  15. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The US can compete if they change their laws (including level of enforcement) to match those of China.

    That will never happen though.

    Unless you reduce minimum wage down to $3 an hour, and slash all those environmental protections, the US will never be able to compete.

    You'll also have to completely toss out the court lawsuit system, and get rid of anti-discrimination laws. Those are very costly as well.
    (I am of course being a bit sarcastic, my point is the US cannot compete)
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  16. quiller

    quiller Well-Known Member

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    I give you the same advice as I would a New York Times reporter.

    Learn to code.
     
  17. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If they can't compete, then you need trade protectionism.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  18. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Learn to speak Mandarin and to survive on $3 an hour.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  19. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You cannot refute the common sense involved...which is substance.

    You think like an elite. Who have an allegiance to no country. The founders were not like that. Thank god or you would be speaking jap or kraut..
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  20. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I got banned from twitter for doing that.

    Apparently journalists are poor at receiving good career advice.
     
  21. quiller

    quiller Well-Known Member

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  22. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Of course, the bottom line is the US CANNOT compete well head-to-head on current imported items.

    So we either have the option of buying imports or we lock down the US and not allow imports...and in doing so greatly decrease exports.

    Politics tells naive people that trade imbalances are bad, but this is pretty stupid when fact is the US is economically one of the most powerful nations on Earth.

    If government and people would spend equal time discussing how to expand US exports, the end result is a win-win!
     
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  23. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    The US has the greatest economy in the world, sans Covid-19, and you think trade imbalances are causing some problem? The US does not need trade protectionism...this is the sissy way to go. The US must be defined by what it can manufacture in the US, what it can export, not by trying to compete with inexpensive imports. You're surely smart enough to know if there were viable business models to produce many of the imports in the US it would be happening! US business leaders know what they can and cannot do...don't let politics force them down silly paths...
     
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  24. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I refute a lack of common sense of your diatribe...
     
  25. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Right now the US is exporting its money and capital. That is not a good thing.

    Imagine continuing to buy lots of stuff from someone else on credit. Those interest rates on your debt will eat you alive.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020

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