Jair Bolsonaro declared Brazil's next president

Discussion in 'Central & South America' started by alexa, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Really?

    I've already educated you....again. Don't plan to waste my time playing silly internet debating games.
     
  2. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Here is my post:
    Perhaps you can tell me where exactly in that post I said "no progress." I won't be surprised if I don't get a response from you!
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  3. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Banned

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    Right wing opinion is often not supported by facts.
     
  4. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Did I say anything about supporting corruption. No you are just making things up.

    The man who would have won the election was Lula but he was in jail and they would not let the people vote for him. It is widely believed that he is in jail so that the left in Brazil can be got rid of and neo liberal austerity put in its place. Of course this is likely to come now given that Bolsonaro has said he intends on criminalising the PT. Everyone has been at corruption in Brazil and for a wile it appears that Lula played along a bit to neo liberalism. He was though going to change so had to go. Seems this was about the US getting control over South America again and of course with the intent on using Brazil to get Venezuela back under the US control. Whoever stabbed him very much helped him and this stopped him from being interviewed on any political issues. Instead the people were illegally invested with fake news and non truth in order to get their vote as is explained here

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...-next-president.544728/page-5#post-1069818832

    RL is being very demanding of me at the moment so I can't post much.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  5. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    anything
    No, you are moving towards fascism, you just do not see it. Brazil is moving with you and is far more open about it - having of course the history and people at hand.

    The interesting thing about the States I was reading recently is that the Republicans never get the majority of the votes. More than 2/3rds of American voters do not vote for them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  6. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh Owen Jones is not alone in that thought. I would think it was put by stronger intellects to him first. He is correct though - what is a centrist? I had never heard of such a being until I came on line and they got started in the US thought they are now in the UK as well. A centrist is an apologist for the system, that is all. That is the system which came in 40 years ago in the US, UK and then Europe and destroyed social democracy. Centrists are these people who are really more like admins for the plutocrats they serve. With them to believe in any way the US is a democracy is laughable. Your leaders are elected by them. I read a while back that for a long time the person who is elected President in the US is the one who gets the most paid into them. Your politicians are happy doing this as they get well oiled...but your people suffer. Go back 40 years and most of your people could rely on their job to give them a decent wage with which they could bring up their family with their head held high. If they were sick, their firm paid for medical help. Now I was reading 40% of the citizens of the US cannot even afford the essentials of life. You're politicians have sold out on you just like Owen notes they have done in the UK.

    The main difference between the Republicans and the Democrats at the moment is that the Dems still talk the talk of rights but politically they are not that different.

    People think they just have to get rid of Trump and then things will be fine. Nope. What did Obama do? He lost my support when I found out he was droning more people than Bush and having weekly meetings to decide who would be killed. Apart from that
    Jimmy Dore

    Obama also ended your Haebus Corpus act and if you think that was for no reason think again.



    Hedges goes on to describe how he watched a similar situation arise after the financial collapse in Yugoslavia which gave rise to an ineffectual and eventually despised political elite which is pretty much where you are now. People feel betrayed. The American Dream has gone. Even if they are prepared to work as hard as is possible it does not guarantee them a job never mind a better standard of living than their parents had....and all the while all your politicians are doing is keeping this all going for the 0.1% they serve.

    Of course people want to help the Democrats win in the mid terms. To not do so will accelerate the US's move into fascism...but unless there is a far bigger change, it is going to come to the US anyway. The Democrats are keeping the same failed system going. When there is the next big crash which everyone says there will be how do you think people will react? Last time our Governments got us to pay for their gambling failures. This will not happen again. Democracy can only work if the Government makes sure that Capitalism does not get so much power that Politicians are serving it rather than the people. Our Governments failed to do this, so we lost our democracies. Social Democracy is without question the best kind of Government for Democracy. That s how we were ruled after WW2 very aware of the checks and balances to keep an eye on like monopolies particularly of the press - and in that Brazil is even worse that the US.

    Centrists will only hold up a failed system which they are apparently gaining from. Thankfully the US and Europe's left are working together for ways to hold democracy together. If they do not manage then it is going to be fascism.

    That video describes the situation very well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  7. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No that is just trash you have been reading.
     
  8. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here comes goody at the thing he is best at - being a creep.
     
  9. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well that would suit you well.
     
  10. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well clearly if you enjoy military dictatorship then that being removed was a step back for Brazil. It is also true that allowing an amnesty to people then left them in place and so there to come back now. Lula had of course raised the standard of living of the poorest mainly non white and arranged for them to get an education. I appreciate that to you that would be a step backward. However he had done little to change the structure and with 2008 and his intent to move away from neo liberalism, it could on the one hand be said that he did not make a great deal of change and of course left the door wide open for the dictatorship to come back in. Brazil is just one country along with many more who are ready to bring the world into a new kind of authoritarian fascism. Some people are supporting this through ignorance. They are correctly angry about about how there so called democratic governments have treated them and are just trying to hit back. Others without question are welcoming the move towards Western fascism, mainly led by the Christian Right from the U S of A. What is your motivation? Christian Right?
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  11. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Pathetic. Trying to equate Soros with Operation Car wash...wow.
     
  12. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    ....and trying to paint this as some sort of operation by the US Government and the 'Christian Right' ultimately aimed at Venezuela isn't 'pathetic'?

    I will admit it is amusing to watch you attack an admittedly unpleasant sounding politician who hasn't actually done anything yet while defending a dictatorship in Venezuela that has overridden the democratic wishes of its population & reduced the nation to starvation. Of course, that will all be someone else's fault. you will only ever admit fault when it is the 'bad guys'.
     
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  13. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why is that? Do you think I'd ever support Fascists or Nazis?
     
  14. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who do you feel are the Christian Right, the Christian Left and the Christian center? And who are their leaders?
     
  15. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You seem to get your information from some very odd sources. Do you really understand how the US electoral system works? That it is a Republic?

    Everyone is either Nazi, Fascist, or Christian Right Wing in your pathetic little world.
     
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  16. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Really? Can you provide some examples?
     
  17. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure.
     
  18. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But you would never expose your lack of life by making personal attacks on posters, huh?
     
  19. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    I take it from that rather confused reply that this was your words (do try to learn how to use the quote function properly):

    Where have I EVER expressed support for military dictatorship or Fascism (assuming it exists) in Brazil? Show me the quote. I can certainly show you quotes where I criticize Bolsonaro and praise PT. Do you understand that pointing out that your rants are idiotic and ill informed doesn't equate to supporting the people you dislike? Do you get that a person doesn't have to endlessly spew the worst left win propaganda and struggle to maintain coherence to oppose dictatorships? Do you understand that dictatorships are bad no matter which political ideology runs them? No, probably not. Silly of me to bring it up really.

    Easier to claim I believe things my posts clearly indicate I don't believe. You can't or won't properly inform yourself or interrogate your own sources, so it is a bit much to expect you to actually read other people's posts properly.
     
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  20. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    That is one of the more delusional sentences I have ever read. No surprise that you can't quote me supporting Bolsonaro. I haven't & I don't. What I have done is criticized your ill informed claims and your BS conspiracy theories. Apparently you are unable to distinguish between this and supporting fascism.

    It has nothing to do with me or with our interactions. Can't say I'm surprised.

    Show me where I 'attacked you for not supporting Bolsonaro'. Show me the post. Produce the quotes. You won't be able to because I did no such thing. I pointed out that you were and are ill informed on the reasons for his victory. I pointed out that he won for domestic reasons, not as a result of some US conspiracy. I pointed out what those reasons were. At NO point have I supported him. In fact, I have supported PT.

    BTW, if you want an example of 'ego' it is the inability to distinguish between me disagreeing with you and me supporting Bolsonaro. That is a more supremely egotistical position than I could ever manage.

    Now, are you going to produce the proof that I support Bolsonaro or are you going to apologize for telling lies about me? My bet is that you will just run away rather than admit you were wrong.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  21. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    So the change is a good thing right? No more dictatorship.

    "Left them in place." Who is "them?"

    Why in the hell would I see that as a step backwards?

    So then you can't surely think that it would've been good if he continued.

    You mean that welcoming Brazil's move towards Western fascism is being led by the Christian Right from the US, or Western fascism is being led by the Christian Right?

    What is my motivation for what?

    Oh I see. No corruption then?
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  22. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Is English your first language?
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  23. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    She's a conspiracy theorist who thinks that the Christian Right are behind all evil!

    A very well balanced position that you have. You're giving the bloke a chance.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
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  24. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure it isn't, so he gets a bit of leeway. There are a surprising number of people here who aren't doing much better despite English being their first language.
     
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  25. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Quite. They must be incredibly powerful because apparently they are co-opting Australian agnostics who have been involved in left wing politics for decades. :roll:


    I think he'll be a disaster and that PT would have done a better job, but he hasn't done anything yet. Venezuela is a train wreck unworthy of defence by any intelligent person. I have a profound dislike for dictatorships, especially when there is a clear democratic alternative.
     
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