Left and Right Facing Off Again in Portland

Yeah, the next escalation will be antifa throwing nose boogers at racists. Talk about sissies.

 

so if you threw a milkshake at a person you don't think they would turn around and punch you.

Have you never heard of people before?

 

I regularly taunt religious people in public. Some get quite violent.

Anyhow, I agree with Murray, to some extent. But then, I am of Swedish descent and went through college with straight A's. Around 1990 or so, I had a long running conversation with Chomsky via email. Mostly we discussed machine intelligence, on the professional level. But we did discuss how LBJ's Great Society realigned the political divide.

When I was in college, late 70's, early 80's, political speakers tended to be part of a discussion, not stand alone. Only those who were running for office were given their own platform. I do remember seeing speakers, or lecturers as they were called, associated with specific departments. I was a physics major and usually went to see scientific lecturers. One that seems to have stayed in my thoughts, was a fellow who insisted that there was a coming political divide, he described as those who understand thermodynamics and those who don't.

 

I have seen them in action.

 

Do you consider me a white supremacist?

 

Are you defending those Anarcho-Marxist pukes?

The knuckle draggers in TotallyFa have been assaulting people for years. They even beat the sh*t out of Sandersista who had the gall to wave an American flag in their presence.

 

Pray every night that your guardian angel protect you from female college terrorists

 

It's only a matter of time until the City of Portland gets its ass sued off, and after the Ngo beating that time might be now.

That sh*t never happens in DC where there are much larger protests because the police put a body and barricades between the demonstrators and counter-demonstrators, and if anyone f*cks up they get arrested on the spot and carted to jail.

 

Back when white nationalist racists actually proliferated, they caused mayhem anywhere they could. Antifa only targets conservatives in limp wrist liberal dominated cities. They are a bunch of cowardly bigots of the worst kind.

 

The city government needs to be brought up on criminal charges.

Yeah the city government in Portland orders police to stand down. This is why they should be criminally prosecuted.

 

Pffft.

I've had the pleasure of personally mocking those anarchist cowards to their faces in Washington DC on several occasions. They run in packs and cover their faces because they're a bunch of *******.'

Try not to be one of the laughable chumps who lives vicariously through a bunch of "anti-fascist" chumps who act and dress like Mussolin's blackshirts. That sh*t's for losers, and it would make you just as laughable as them and their abject lack of self-awareness.

 

Did not someone once say that no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people?

If you read enough of my posts you would know that I see the right as two distinct groups. One is the right wingers, those who believe that the wealthy should rule. The other is conservatives, who tend to tilt the balance to the low side of the intellectual spectrum. The right wing, through its media, leads conservatives along.

I spent my career in Boulder Colorado. The Boulder area has the distinction of being the most educated of any metropolitan area in the country. Almost 2/3rds of the population has at least a bachelors degree, more than twice the national average. Boulder is also the most liberal of any city. It also has one of the most dense concentrations of scientific laboratories and high tech companies. It is also has strict environmental controls. In Boulder County, 40% of voters are registered as Democrats and only 20% as Republicans.

One could say that Boulder is an anomaly, but Boulder has a big brother, a very big brother, the Bay Area. Much higher than average education rates, low religiosity, high tech innovation, environmental concern, and liberal politics, but on a much greater scale.

There are no comparable conservative centers of innovation.

 

The initial reports from the police, is that Ngo and the Proud Boys started the fight. It is playing on right wing media, but the real trouble makers are well known. All the misinformation from the right won't change that.

 

The "progressive" authorities in Charlottesville ordered the police to stand down during the protests in 2017 and look how that turned out - a young woman got killed.

Obviously, the authorities in Portland have been guilty of gross negligence and dereliction of duty and the violence in the streets of that city persists because they allow it to persist. The violence out there in Oregon like the violence back here in Virginia could easily be prevented as it is in DC but they have a personal and political stake in that violence. They should be criminally prosecuted but it would be amazing if they were even held accountable in civil court. The authorities in Charlottesville and Richmond - specifically mayor Michael Singer and governor Terry McAuliffe - literally got away with their complicity in the death of Heather Heyer and everything else that occurred while they blew off their duty to maintain public order and safety for their own self-aggrandizement. No one in this country should fear getting injured or killed for exercising their First Amendment rights.

 

By all means, show me the video of Ngo attacking someone. Unless you can do so your post is nothing but misinformation from the Left and the moral and intellectual pygmies who support and make excuses for TotallyFa.

 

Portland is a progressive city. I just found out that the Nike headquarters is located in Portland

 

It's sad to see an intelligent person go along with people who are the very antithesis of reason and intelligence. But the social environment is a powerful force on the conclusions we believe we arrive at on the basis of our own reasoning alone. When I think of the Bay Area, where I lived for several years, i think of my last visit to San Francisco, and the piles of human excrement on the sidewalks. There is now also a lot of intellectual excrement there, which used to be just silly -- Berkeley declaring itself a 'non-nuclear zone'! ... but now it has gotten serious.

I wouldn't boast about taunting religious people. There is a certain personality type who enjoys making other people unhappy, and in proving his own intellectual superiority to himself and others. We as yet know little about the human brain, but when we do, I suspect this character trait will be in some way related to, perhaps share causative factors with, Asperger's. The lack of the ability to empathyze with others almost certainly has a biological root. (Although I've not believed in 'God' since I was 12, I prefer to follow Karl Marx here and see religion as the sigh of the oppressed, the cry for a heart in a heartless world. It will fade away as we understand the world and put a 'heart' into it, eventually vanishing when we learn to undo what nature eventually does with our cells. The people who are the real enemies of religion are the ones who will get apoptosis under control and allow us to transcend Hayflick's Limit.)

Please note that although there are certainly some obnoxious ignoramuses among religious people -- and, in backward societies like Pakistan they can be lethal -- there are also some very good people, by anyone's standard. (And some intelligent people: like the Professor of Mathematical Physics at Cambridge, author of books on Quantum Theory, who probably knows the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and who resigned his chair to take up holy orders ((become a priest)). I don't know if you could 'taunt' him but you might have an interesting argument with him.)

It's a conceit of a certain sort of intelligent leftwinger who doesn't know much history that his personal politics are a function of his high IQ, as if political issues were technical issues, and thus one's ability to solve a second-order differential equation or understand the solar neutrino problem translates into the ability to make 'correct' political choices. In the 1930s there was a whole movement called Technocracy built around this premise, which is actually has its roots on the Right -- only the best should rule -- rather than on the egalitarian Left.

However, although smart is better than stupid, politics is not generally a question of understanding complex technical issues. One's position on free trade with China, for example, will not depend on your understanding of comparative advantage, but on how you think it will affect you and your country's inhabitants.

Basically, it's a question of perceived self-interest. This is true for most people, although most of us like to think that what's good for us, is good for much larger numbers of people, since the admonition "don't be selfish" is part of most people's upbringing.

As a rule, this large number means at most the citizens of their own country, but with intellectuals, there is a higher-than-average proportion who think, or want to believe they are thinking, in terms of the interests of humanity as a whole. This is not a bad thing, indeed it's a good thing, abstractly.

But these intelligent people have the vices of their virtues. One of those vices is an overestimation of their intellectual ability in all areas, not just their own. Thus the charlatan Uri Geller was able to fool reputable scientists with a bit of sleight-of-hand. He'd have had a harder time with a French peasant, especially when he began asking for money.

Another vice of intellectuals is seizing on a set of simple laws that supposedly explain everthing in society, thinking that the sort of simplicity we find in physical science can be transfered to the understanding of people. Some Libertarians have this vice, and a large section of the European intelligentisia, especially in France, was gripped by it after the terrible blow dealt to our self-confidence by World War I: they became devotees of Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Union, supposedly founded on scientific theory of society and history. The daughter and son-in-law of Marie Curie -- themselves Nobel Prize winners -- were typical of this political derangement.

But that's just intellectuals. Those who believe that advanced education (which generally correlated with higher IQ and may still do so) makes you a Leftwinger are simply ignorant of the fact that, until the growth of mass education in the second half of the 20th Century, higher intelligence meant higher income and higher income correlated pretty well with support for parties of the Center and Right.

The Left drew its mass support from the (less-educated) working class. In Germany you would have found a significant amount of support for Hitler among the better-educated. Indeed, the first national German organization that the Nazis took over was the German Students Union, a year and a half before Hitler was offered the Chancellorship. Support for German nationalism was widespread among German physicists, and there were even Nobel Prize winners in physics who became Nazis.

Although Werner Heisenberg was not a Nazi, he was perfectly happy to co operate with them to develop nuclear weapons. He probably knew a bit more physics than you, and certainly than me, but that wouldn't make me trust his political judgement over yours (although with respect to free speech, there wouldn't be much difference, sadly).

Noam Chomsky is a very intelligent man, and a democrat. Marxist Australian friends of mine who supported the invasion of Iraq (yes, they're unsual down there, it comes from standing on their heads all the time) engaged in a lengthy email correspondence with him over that issue. I admire him for being willing to take his time to discuss with ordinary people. I also admire him for his principled stand on free speech --- you ought to discuss that issue with him. (However, he does have the typical intelligent person's vice -- he is too arrogant. This is even true within his area of competence, theoretical linguistics.)

You say you agree with Charles Murray to some extent. Probably a lot of intelligent people who have read his books do, but if they're on the Left, they're afraid to say so. And do note that if Charles Murray were invited to speak at Berkeley today, the likes of AntiFa would try to repeat what their brothers-in-arms did at Middlebury College. (The link is to an article by a principled liberal, writing in The Atlantic.)

AntiFa types have decided you, despite knowing the Second Law of Thermodynamics, are not competent to judge his ideas -- they'll judge them for you and decide what you're allowed to hear (despite, i would bet good money, their not knowing the Second Law of Thermodynamics, or much of anything else -- although they're doing a good job of bringing a kind of Second Law into American poltical life).

When you were at Berkeley in the late 70s and early 80s, there may well have been a more civilized atmosphere. I was there (not as a student) ten years earlier, and I don't recall any violence against conservative speakers or debaters or anyone because of their poltiical beliefs. But this stuff has been around for a while. The great scientist E.O. Wilson was physically attacked by leftists (Stalinists, not 'anarchists' but they actually have much in common) at the AAAS meeting in 1978.

No doubt the antiFa-loving liberals posting here would have had some witty things to say about that.

 

I used to spend some of my summer vacation in Boulder -- a lovely town. I especially appreciated its height-limit on buildings. (Liberals generally do a better job of civic management than conservatives. There is a stupid conservative strand of thought that disparages things like 'library boxes' in public parks. National Review once ran an article mocking the 'bike path Left'. This is probably a reflection of American conservatism's excess distrust of the state, coming from both its libertarian and it's don't-tax-me wings, plus the misguided view that 'macho' responses to everything 'liberal' equals conservatism. But good civic amenities, especially when carried out at the local level, are just what the local state should be doing.)

However, the good liberal citizens of Boulder have some silly ideas. There is a statue in the center of town of a Native American, and it's inscribed with some nonsense about how respecting the environment was an inherent part of Native American culture. Ha! Torturing your captives as an inherent part of Native American culture would be more like it. The very concept of the environment, ecology, etc is the product of an advanced society, which can begin to contemplate its environments abstractly, instead of just living in it. As is the idea that we shouldn't torture people as an open and admitted part of public policy.

As for the better 'environmental concern' of the liberal-governed Bay Area. There's some (no doubt unintentional) humor there. I know it's 'unnatural' to have an elaborate system of keeping human feces off the ground ... hiding it away in sewage-disposal plants, which probably use horrible old chemicals ... certainly non-human animals, who really respect the environment, don't go to much trouble to hide their waste -- no silly sterile bourgeois hang-ups among them! But don't you think San Francisco has gone a bit too far, with its 'Poop Maps'?

 

Do you believe it is wrong for the federal government to oversee and investigate possible civil rights violations committed at the state level?

 

The police are not saying that at all. In fact the police are looking for the ANTIFA terrorists that beat and robbed Andy. Why post something that is obviously not true?

https://www.portlandoregon.gov/police/news/read.cfm?id=250045&ec=1&ch=twitter

Why does ANTIFA hide behind masks like the KKK or other criminals afraid to be identified?

We will find them, arrest them and imprison them anyway. They can run but they cannot hide. Most look to be future welfare recipients or prison inmates in the future anyway.

I guess liberals don't teach their children well? What sort a "Mother" would ever go out in public and taunt people because other religious affiliation? Yet, you proudly boast of such activity.

But the Bay area, San Francisco has been turned into a cesspool of garbage, homeless and human feces by these liberal lawmakers and by these supposedly "well educated" liberals. The real question is why: Why are liberals who are supposed to be so smart and so well educated, destroying these cities?

Are they so narcissistic that they work to enslave others by robbing them of their money and keeping them poor and homeless? Why is liberal leadership so bad at running things effectively?

Why is Portland overrun with ANTIFA terrorists who shut down streets, assault innocent civilians, journalists and destroy public/private property. It's not a big secret that these thugs roam Portland causing mayhem and destruction. You deny it and make things that we all know not to be true so your views can easily be discarded in favor of video evidence and reports from Police and other law abiding citizens.

Soon, Portland will have to hand out poop maps, like the other bastions of liberal destruction and corruption.

 

Of course not and if the feds feel like "milkshakes" are worth investigating than go for it. I'm not making light of the injuries to the reporter and elderly man and hope those involved will be prosecuted. But my sense is that Portland can handle the situation without additional law enforcement involved. I'm curious how other cities deal with these demonstrations within the confines of constitutional rights.

 

Says the people who can't grasp basic biology.

 

You start out sounding reasonable but emotionalism seems to then take over in your statement. I doubt that Ngo went into the streets calling antifa names/ daring them to attack him. Apparently they know Ngo well in Portland so perhaps he should have not ventured into a crowd of angry people without the help of others to protect him. The videos suggest that others [dressed in black] did try to stop the attack. This is what I have observed watching similar incidents of street fighting that is politically oriented.

The charge for assault and theft could result in a short time in jail but unlikely unless the antifa participants have a criminal record.

Your obvious distaste for San Francisco has nothing to do with this thread on Portland.

 

That's what needs to be investigated. If the city was intentionally not protecting the civil rights of these people because they disagreed with their organization. The city doesn't get to pick and choose whose civil rights they will defend.

 

You start off poorly and then end poorly again with something you insinuate and are wrong about. I agree with you that Andy Ngo didn't antagonize ANTIFA nor did he go there looking for trouble. He live streamed and recorded much of his time there right before he was assaulted. He had more video that was stolen by an ANTIFA member as they harassed, then beat him causing significant damage to his health. ANTIFA members, once caught and arrested will most likely get significant fines, a small stint in jail and then they will be sued by Andy and his lawyer who will then sue the city of Portland and the mayor.

Contrary to your allegation, I love San Francisco. Spent a good amount of time there. I hate what is being done to such a beautiful city. Liberals today are destroying CA at a rate we haven't seen in a long time. CA itself is turning into a mismanaged cesspool of illegals and lawmakers that can't seem to understand how to run a state or how to take care of its citizens. Instead, they raise taxes and drive out business. People are fleeing in record numbers and are being replaced by an illegal population.

I want your lawmakers out of office and possibly even jailed for gross negligence by the people and country they serve. They have taken a beautiful city and literally pooped all over it. Complete with handing out poop maps so you can step over and around it. I suggest getting the APP, though. Then you can pictures and hopefully someone will come and clean it up.