Whaler, you know me, I am a conservative. However this issue is a lot more complicated than that, I have struggled with it myself. A huge portion of the population does not have a problem with this, I wish they did but they do not. So many of these young ladies are not capable of a clear choice, many far too young. If we pass a law you will be signing many a death warrant, and not by just the courts either, now you have possibly lost both. Innocence lies not only with the unborn.... Logic is fine when you are dealing with a clear unfettered mind, may I suggest in many cases you are not. Also,,,why give unlicensed greedy disgusting people a chance to cash in on a black Market that we will have instigated,,,,why?, to stop it? You wont,,,,for revenge?, that's absurd, Justice????, Who's justice? GODS?,,,,,,then let him decide. It's called free will my friend... I know I will never convince you, that's alright. However please give it more thought, this is as old as the human race and will never end. What do you normally do when faced with something wrong yet unstoppable and yet supported by sooooo many people?
Legally sanctioning their murder is your idea of protection and care? What the hell are you talking about? Well then why the hell don't we exempt mothers from laws against infanticide as long as it's their own offspring they're murdering? You might just as well have given an easy to understand explaination of special relativity, for all the relevance it had to my question. It's an idiotic question, so don't ask me again.
Are you saying that people have only as much self control as dogs? If that were the case abortion rates would show as a flat line on a graph. Obviously they are not, many factor playing important roles. It does not. Stigma has the least to do with the reasons abortion are or are not done. It does not. abortion is not infanticide, no matter what you believe. The fact that you have to resort to such emotional hyperbole underscores the weakness of your argument. Again a weak argument. Given that "some" "bad" activity will always take place, to minimize or reduce such bad from becoming common place approaches that actually provide the right results have to be implemented. There is ample evidence that the legality or illegality of abortion does not produce the desired result. In light of that it follows that those who insist on making abortion illegal are dong so only for the purpose of punishment, a vindictive and uncivilized pursuit. Of note if of course the fact that there are policies that do produce the desired result, lowering abortion rates, yet by far abortion opponents oppose those too. Right and where do we draw the line? Prohibition has been tried and was an abject failure. What is next? Tobacco, salt, fatty foods, long working hours, high stress jobs to name a few. Really? How myopic, I am sure that you managed to post this from you cave with no electricity and internet connection, because nature never intended for you to have them. Very noble, compassionate, even Christian of you. And we do. It is already illegal to discriminate against children and midgets.
Funny how the woman gets to decide but the man may have to pay for 18 years when he has no say in what happens
It does because she knows the consequences. Not making use of proper protection is also on the woman.
Consent to any risky behavior means acceptance of the consequences of our actions by responsible people. For children who want to blame mommy & daddy, or god or the government for every unfavorable incidence which occurs in their life - your argument makes sense. most I can say is - grow up and accept responsibility for your actions instead of calling it punishment - or keep it in your pants oh wait, now were expecting women to act responsponsibly too so I guess that should be - keep it out of your pants.
That is a rule made up by anti-choicers to apply only to pregnant women. Engaging in "risky behavior" does not preclude medical intervention in any other situation.
Oh, so in case of grandma's brake failing and running you over you will nor seek medical attention compensation? There is a simpler solution. How about you grow up and stay out of other people's lives?
The man controls IF HE WILL HAVE SEX. He controls if HE INITIATES sex. Even if she initiates sex, he still controls whether he does it.
This is not a rule made up by anyone. We all are responsible for the consequences of our actions - thats a simple fact of life. Considering abortion a form of birth control is a morally bankrupt position, especially when you try to dress up what is basically a selfish and self-centered position as somehow a noble civil rights act. Your rights end at the point where they infringe upon anothers. I am not anti-abortion, I am anti-abortion at the point where a fetus has a chance to live outside of a womb. And I believe men who have contributed to a new life should have a say in what happens to/with that new life - not the final say, but influence. I support womens rights, but not to the point where they are elevated above the rights of others.
It takes two, who share mutual responsibility. Unless you are talking about rape, but that is another topic.
But what you mean by "Consent to any risky behavior means acceptance of the consequences of our actions by responsible people," is that a woman engages in "risky behavior" by having sex, and as a responsible person, she must accept pregnancy with no medical intervention (abortion) allowed, because that allows her to escape the consequences. Everyone else is allowed medical intervention following "risky behavior." That is YOUR moral position. Those who don't believe a zef is a person with rights do not see it as murder, or morally wrong. Every pregnancy causes permanent damage to a woman's body and is a potential risk to a woman's health and life. She has a right to decide if she wants to take that risk. Ironic. You are granting more rights to a zef (zygote/embryo/fetus) than anyone has. No one has the right to use another person's organs and systems to survive, and no person has a legal obligation to keep another person alive by donating his own organs or blood. When you grants rights to a fetus, you infringe on the woman's rights. This is what can happen when rights are granted to a fetus: Angela Carder at 27 years old and 25 weeks pregnant became critically ill. She, her family and her attending physicians all agreed on treatment designed to keep her alive for as long as possible. The hospital however called an emergency hearing to determine the rights of the fetus. Despite testimony that a Cesarean section could kill Ms. Carder, the court ordered the surgery because the fetus had independent legal rights. As a result, Ms. Carder not only lost her right to informed consent and bodily integrity; she lost her life. The surgery resulted in the death of both Angela and her fetus.http://advocatesforpregnantwomen.org...ave_rights.php
How does that apply to the abortion issue? By who's standards, yours? It is morally bankrupt to impose your morality on others. It needs no dressing up. The right to freedom and self determination needs no dressing only defending from morality coercion, zealotry and ignorance. Then you should have no problem with abortion as it does not involve any others but the pregnant woman. You are not alone, most people feel that way. Besides, by that point abortion is not done for elective reasons. They do in most cases. The instances where a woman gets pregnant and has an abortion without telling anyone are rare. No one is asking for that, it would not be just.
Haven't you figured out that this is a public forum and I don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*) about why or to who you respond? I addressed your points that is all that matters. If you do not wish to respond do not.
The response was to a poster who insists that women control sex. The fact is that no man HAS to participate. Men are not just helpless puppets on a string unless they CHOOSE to be.
So...if a woman wants to have sex, but the man doesn't, it is futile for him to try and stop it from happening?
Nice spin. shows you have nothing.We are talking about 2 consenting adults. It is the woman that controls if it happens or not
I agree with you there. I think it is demeaning to men to be portrayed as somehow slaves to thier libido or not able to control themselves if exposed to sexual stimuli. As for those men who do act as if they are controlled by their little head and engage in inappropriate behavior - they should be locked up.
