MSNBC Says AR-15 as a "Military" Rifle. Whats a Mini-14?

You qualified on the range with a M-1 carbine.

Were you in the Air Force ?

 

Yes , they did not let us AirForce guys have real guns didn't you know that LOL,! It was not until I got orders for Vietnam three years later that I got to shoot a M16. Even in Vietnam we were only allowed to sign out a M16 when we went on flight ops as a crewman. We had to sign out a weapon from the armory and signed forv 60 rounds, no more. When we got back from a flight to the boonies we had to return all 60 rounds or write up a lenghty report explaining what the F we did with the "missing " rounds.

Our squadron had a bunch of unauthorized weapons and ammo in a stash. We had Thompsons, Greese guns, M-1carbines , .38 revolvers that were stolen from Air Crew survival packs. The Thompsons and greese guns were bought in town from Villagers or gotten from ARVN - South Vietnamese Army units. As were the M1 carbines since early on ARVN was armed with M1carbines before "we" gave them M16's. So us AirForce types had to beg, borrow, and steal weapons and get hand me downs from ARVN.

Nicecwayvtontreat your own troops right!

 

Pray tell what was the logical reasoning behind such a course of action?

 

I do not remember but it must have been that we were not "combatants". We had our APES Air Police as Security on the innermost perimeter and they had M16's. We had Korean ROK's on the next perimeter and Army guys on the outermost. Obviously they had real weapons. We had an Aussie Artillery detachment and they had real weapons with them. Almost forgot we had Fillipino troops as guards also plus they did patrols out witthevROKS .
I figure Air Farce command figured that we most likely would not get a massive ground assault so us AirForce types did not need a personal weapon.

They were sort of right in 1969 because it was not small arms fire that sent me to get medivaced out it was a 81 mm mortor round.

 

M16 ADOPTION
Curtis LeMay viewed a demonstration of the AR-15 in July 1960. In the summer of 1961, General LeMay had been promoted to the position of USAF Chief of Staff, and requested an order of 80,000 AR-15s for the U.S. Air Force. However, under the recommendation of General Maxwell D. Taylor, who advised the Commander in Chief that having two different calibers within the military system at the same time would be problematic, President Kennedy turned down the request.[33]However, Advanced Research Projects Agency, which had been created in 1958 in response to the Soviet Sputnikprogram, embarked on project AGILE in the spring of 1961. AGILE's priority mission was to devise inventive fixes to the communist problem in South Vietnam. In October 1961, William Godel, a senior man at ARPA, sent 10 AR-15s to South Vietnam to let the allies test them. The reception was enthusiastic, and in 1962 another 1,000 AR-15s were sent to South Vietnam.[34] Special Operations units and advisers working with the South Vietnamese troops filed battlefield reports lavishly praising the AR-15 and the stopping effectiveness of the 5.56 mm cartridge, and pressed for its adoption. However, what no one knew, except the men directly using the AR-15s in Vietnam, were the devastating kills made by the new rifle, photographs of which, showing enemy casualties made by the .223 (5.56 mm) bullet remained classified into the 1980s.[35]

The damage caused by the .223 (5.56 mm) "varmint"[33] bullet was observed and originally believed to be caused by "tumbling" due to the slow 1 in 14-inch (360 mm) rifling twist rate. However, this twist rate only made the bullet less stable in air. Any pointed lead core bullet will turn base over point ("tumble") after penetration in flesh, because the center of gravity is aft of the center of pressure. The large wounds observed by soldiers in Vietnam were actually caused by projectile fragmentation, which was created by a combination of the projectile's velocity and construction.[36]

U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara now had two conflicting views: the ARPA report favoring the AR-15 and the Pentagon's position on the M14. Even President John F. Kennedy expressed concern, so McNamara ordered Secretary of the Army Cyrus Vance to test the M14, the AR-15 and the AK-47. The Army's test report stated that only the M14 was suitable for Army use, but Vance wondered about the impartiality of those conducting the tests. He ordered the Army Inspector General to investigate the testing methods used; the Inspector General confirmed that the testers showed favor to the M14...

-> http://self.gutenberg.org/articles/eng/M16A1

 

I consider any weapon in the hands of military personnel a military weapon, and any weapon in the hands of a civilian to not be a military weapon.

 

Merely twice as much using 30 round clips you have to reload 10 times vs 20 in a minute you'd get 10 extra Shots You'd get 250 shots vs his 400. And at a 100+ yards more rounds are better, much better.

 

Great if you only have one guy shot at a time. There is a book called the 'Sharp End' You should read it. Hell even Napoleon new better as his quotes before Austerlitz revealed that he was cognizant of that issue. As Per The "Campaigns of Napoleon"

 

Yep, we'll have to disagree. There is no doubt that a civilian firearm *can* be used by the military but that does not make it a military rifle!

 

The Kentucky rifle and Pennsylvania rifle were not created or designed for warfare or the military. Their rifling was a new design and intended for hunting and self-defense. They remained a private citizen firearm for almost 100 years. The smoothbore musket was the firearm of choice for the military until shortly before the Civil War with the development of the Minie ball. If you will, the adoption of a military firearm with a rifled bore was copied from the civilian sector, not the other way around!

 

And law enforcement is only 90 SECONDS away from you? Is that 24/7? Does a law enforcement officer live with you?

 

Yes right on. I had mentioned LeMay wanting the AR 15 for our APES to guard the B-52s ( some B-36s were till around) and B-47?Recon birds. We ( Air Force) needed a light fast firing weapon that could be handled with gloves at 20 below in Minot and 105 in England AFB LA without gloves. At that time our APES had M-1carbines and some M-14s depending where.

That tumbling urban legend is funny. I heard many chicken hawks and 4Fers try to impress fellow workers and girls by claiming that the bullet of a M16 tumbkes out of the barrell and that us why it tears up flesh. I remember in the mid 1970's a bunch of us from work we're out drinking and selebrstingba big computer project we implemented and this 4F ( non veteran by definition) was trying to impress a girl we worked with to get into her panties so he starts rambling about how the M16 bullet tumbles. The girl was friendly with me and knew I was a Vietnam Vet asked me if what 4F was saying was true. I said no no way it was BS and only fools and liars told that story. It was after many beers so the guy got really mad at me for making him look stupid and lose a chance to get a little later. He started screaming and that his cousin served many tours in Vietnam as a Green Beret and a Seal and a Ranger that he told him it tumbled out of the barrel. He tried to dive across the table at me so I grabbed his tie and pulled it until it was choking him until more sober people separated us. No I did not bother getting into the girls panties I was married and she did not date married guys.
The 4F and I remaned enemies for years.
I just love 4F's and Chicken Hawks who tell war stories, don't you?

 

That's not quite true. Aimed fire instead of auto fire gives a much larger chance casualties. It just doesn't keep their heads down as well!

 

Really? This is what you think?

 

Because it isn't really the bullet that is fired, it is the color and material of the stock that matters.

 

Ok I agree on the Kentucky rifle .. I am not familiar with the Penn rifle so I will take your word for it,. There was documented stories that rifled guns were used by volunteers during thecRev War. In small numbers. Don't you agree?

 

Then you *DO* consider the Mini-14 to be a military firearm?

 

Didn't I say yes already. We all have gone around and round this topic so many times that I am getting to forget who said what .

 

And this anecdotal story means exactly what?

 

There's not much difference between the two operationally. Mostly stock design and accoutrements. There's only so many ways to build a flintlock.

Oh, and of course militia volunteers brought their rifles, e.g. the Green Mountain Boys. I'm sure there were others, they just don't come to mind right now!

 

I don't remember for sure either.

But, as usual, we disagree!

 

Ha ha ha that is why some women carry pink weapons for self protection. Pink ones shoot mire humanly you know.

When my daughter first became a nurse she was on night shift so I did not like the security arrangement in the parking lots of the hospital so I offered to buy her a weapon and pay for the training and license. I even offered to get her a pink one. She held off but when got married she completed her license carry permit but my son in law got her a gun metal Sig 9 mm which I approved. I told him it was part of my blessing for them to get married plus he is also a Vet.

 

I was responding to someone else in a series of military weapons talk so if you are not interested do not bother reading what I wrote and unless you are a 4F or a Chicken Hawk it should not offend you.

 

US Marines that serve as guards at certain US embassies are sometimes issued Mini-14's

The Royal Bermuda Regiment has used the Mini-14GB/20 as its standard service rifle since 1983. Original wooden stocks were replaced with Choate black plastic stocks about 1990. The regiment received L85A2 rifles in August, 2015 and the Ruger will be phased out of use by January, 2016.

Mini -14s were used in Rhodesia during the war against communist terrorist.

The French Army’s Groupe d’Intervention de la Gendarmerie Nationale (“GIGN”) special operations unit use the Mini-14.


It's a scary looking Mini-14, it's illegal in California because it's black and liberals are scared of blacks.

The AC-556 is a selective-fire version of the Mini-14 marketed for military and law enforcement use. The design incorporates a selector on the right/rear of the receiver to select either semi-automatic, 3-round burst, or full-automatic fire modes; the manual safety at the front of the trigger guard operates the same as a standard Mini-14. The front sight is winged and incorporates a bayonet lug. The 13-inch (330 mm) or 18-inch (460 mm) barrel incorporates a flash suppressor, which can be used to launch approved tear-gas and smoke grenades. A folding stock was used on the AC-556F and AC-556K. The rifle came equipped with 20-round magazines and a 30-round version was available for a time. The AC-556 was dropped from production in 1999 and Ruger stopped offering service for the rifle in 2009.


Ruger's AC-556



TACTICAL RIFLE
The "Tactical Rifle" is a newer model with a 16.12" barrel (1:9" RH twist rate) with flash suppressor, and are available with a standard fixed stock/forend, or a collapsible ATI brand stock with Picatinny rails. This rifle is marked on the receiver as "Tactical Rifle". It is very similar to the "Ranch" model except for the "bird cage" flash suppressor, folding stock, and shorter barrel. This model will chamber both .223 Remington and 5.56×45mm NATO ammunition



CRIMINAL USE of the Mini-14

• American Robert Hansen would kidnap and hunt his victims in the Alaska wilderness with a Ruger Mini-14 rifle in the 1970s and 1980s.
• In the 1986 FBI Miami shootout, robber Michael Lee Platt used a Ruger Mini-14 to kill two agents and wound another five.
• Canadian Marc Lépine used a Ruger Mini-14 to kill 14 people and wound 14 people in the École Polytechnique Massacre in Montréal on December 6, 1989. The incident led to more stringent gun control laws in Canada.
• Norwegian Anders Behring Breivik used a Ruger Mini-14 (alongside a Glock 34) to kill 69 people at the island of Utøya during the 2011 Norway attacks

Source -> http://www.gutenberg.us/articles/ruger_mini-14

 

First rate firearm!