Nations Gather To Defend Against Russian Aggression

No problem as long as Europeans pay for it and take responsibility for it.

But when it's Americans paying for it and Americans being asked to take responsibility for the collective security of foreigners, it becomes a huge problem.

Especially when Americans are hurting at home and in desperate need of radical changes.

This all could have been avoided if Americans had simply followed the advice of the founding fathers like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.

One can only imagine how much more wealthy, prosperous, and safe this country would be if we hadn't taken on the responsibility for Europe's endless drama and conflict.

 

No, I'd like us to be isolationist and carry a big stick.

Russia is far less a problem than the Muslim world is.

I could even see a Russian/American coalition against the Muslim world.

But, I was spot on that Putin is flexing muscle because we still have a weak worthless leader for the next several months.

 

It speaks to the glaring hypocrisy and inconsistency of the Russo-phobic lunatic crowd who wildly exaggerates Russia's aggression while wildly downplaying the US government's.

If you care so much about Poland's ability to obtain a missile defense system, then take some money out of your bank account and send it to the Polish government.

Or forfeit your American citizenship and go move to Poland so you can take part in their national defense.

Either way.

 

I want American money to remain in America.

And I want American interests to be separate and independent from the interests of Europe.

That's what my ancestors fought and died for in the American revolution.

And that was the wisdom our founding fathers imparted to us after they ratified the US Constitution.

If you're so concerned with Europe being steamrolled by Russia, then go live in Europe and contribute to their collective defense.

Really, no one is stopping you.

No he doesn't.

He has a deep-seated hatred of US government imperialism, which, for some reason, you confuse with the American people.

 

They have every reason to think that way because European countries have been attacking and invading them since the early 1900's.

 

Seems like many European countries didn't learn much from WWII. Do they take freedom for granted? Do they count on American money and troops and weaponry to save them again? How can someone depend on another country for their very existence? Seems pitiful to us Americans.

 

Russia hasn't invaded a single country.

Their presence in Crimea was in accordance with a treaty that was ratified in the 90's.

And their continued presence in Crimea was at the behest of the majority of people living in Crimea.

To call that an "invasion" is to stretch the meaning of the word beyond all recognition.

As for the second country you're referring to, you'll have to be more specific.

In any case, it has nothing to do with America because Crimea is not America. In fact, it's thousands of miles away from America.

So if the people living in Crimea want to become part of Russia, that has nothing to do with America, nor should it.

We have plenty of problems in our country that need to be addressed without worrying about some irrelevant spit of land thousands of miles away.

 

Of course not.

Russia isn't trying to annex Europe, nor could they.

In fact, if anyone is trying to annex something, it's Europe.

The UK and Germany have both invaded Russia in an attempt to take control of that country.

How many times has Russia invaded them?

Sounds great!

Take care of your own problems and stop trying to drag us into your squabbles with Russia.

Couldn't agree more.

 

I've always wondered how many roads, schools, hospitals, parks and the like could have been built in America with all the money we're pouring into Europe.

People us the term "fortress America" as a pejorative, but I rather like the sound of it.

Keep American wealth inside America, don't bother with European squabbles and conflicts, and sit back with our popcorn and enjoy the show.

We'd be like Switzerland, except with more money and more distance between us and the problems of greater Eurasia.

 

The one in which they agreed to protect the territorial integrity of Ukraine?

They broke this treaty. We sanctioned them.
Simple.

 

I didn't say the polls was flawed. it is probably representative of their opinions.. What I said is that their opinions are stupid and we should not care much about them.

We have nukes, and that's all we need to defend ourselves. A conventional military is useful if you want to fight offensive wars, but we don't really want to do that.

Indeed, not a single country, but two countries. ukraine and georgia.

What treaty? I know that russia had the right o a naval base at sevastopol, but that didn't give them the right o the whole peninsula.

yeah, according to the russians.. but we all know that russian elections are not honest.

They sent troops to crimea and then annexed it. it's a text book example.

 

Whatever.

Don't care.

Has nothing to do with America.

If you care so much about the territorial integrity of Ukraine, then go live in Ukraine.

 

Russia is squabbling quite a lot with the US too if you haven't noticed... We're not dragging you into anything. The US can withdraw all troops anytime they want. we're happy to have you here, but you are not forced to be here. I actually wouldn't mind if you left, but I don't really care if you stay either.

 

I don't. I am happy with the Russian policing of it so far.

Just saying. They broke their treaty and they got sanctioned. Cause and effect.

 

Whatever.

This is not our problem.

Americans don't need to concern themselves with the niceties of European squabbles over some irrelevant spit of land across the ocean.

If Donald Trump becomes President, hopefully he makes good on his promise to make America first instead of worrying about what some foreigners want.

 

Hopefully he'll dump NATO and we can start a better alliance.

Sweden has nukes?

News to me.

 

Russia is squabbling with the US government because the US government is trying to police the world.

If the US government stopped trying to police the world and defend Europe from Russian boogeymen, then no such squabbles would exist.

We could simply worry about our own pressing problems here at home and watch European drama for pure entertainment value.

The sanctions were completely unnecessary and stupid, especially when one considers the fact that the US government was materially involved in the overthrow of the democratically elected Ukrainian President, Victor Yanukovych.

 

Your facetious comment notwithstanding, I intend to do what I like, say what I like and live where I like....AND support the Ukrainian & Polish peoples' right to be free of Russian threat & aggression. Now if that cripples your narrow worldview of what a patriotic American should be, and causes you any angst, then that's a problem for you to wrestle with, not me.

 

The sanctions were entirely necessary and smart.
In order to get Ukraine to surrender their nukes, we promised them not to mess with their borders. We gave them that security guarentee.
Should we fail to enact consequences to Russia for the breaking of that treaty, no other country could reasonably expect to trust us again. There would no more treaties and no more chance of nuclear disarmament in potential conflict areas.
Consequences were required.

 

It's not a facetious comment.

If you are so concerned with the territorial integrity of a foreign country like Ukraine or Poland, then go live there. Or, at the very least, spend your own money on their national defense.

Because it has nothing to do with America's national defense, which makes your attempts to involve Americans via the US government an assault on our sovereignty and our independence.

Which is very ironic considering your attempt to present yourself as some kind of a patriot who loves America.

Apparently, you show your love for America by spitting on the patriots who fought and died for our political independence.

 

The sanctions were incredibly reckless and stupid because the instability in Ukraine was caused almost entirely by the US government's clandestine involvement in the overthrow of Ukraine's democratically elected President.

In other words, the sanctions were a solution to a problem that the US government caused.

So unless you think overthrowing the democratically elected president of Ukraine somehow promotes the integrity of that country's borders, I'm not not sure where you got the idea that these sanctions were necessary and smart.

 

By the way, stop acting like you speak for the "Ukrainian people".

Because there are millions of Ukrainian people living in the Donbass region who are pro-Russian and pro-separatist.

The only way you can pretend to speak for the Ukrainian people is if you ignore the existence of half the country.

 

Speaking as a european.. Europe has nukes. But Sweden itself could easily get nukes if we wanted to.. We have the expertise required. We almost decided to get some during the cold war, but decided we didn't need them.

I don't think so.. Russia is doing what they're doing in great part because they are mad about losing the cold war against the US. It's primarily against the US that they want to prove themselves powerful, not against europe. it's about pride, and the US was the main rival of the USSR. it wasn't europe. the EU doesn't really try to compete in the military super power league, but the US is, and Russia is. it's not primarily the EU that challenge Russian power around the world, it's the USA. I'm sorry, but the US is the primary target of US hate, not the EU, so your dreams of US-russian friendship is dead. We just happen to be on the front lines, but it's you they really hate.

 

Europe doesn't try to compete because they were crushed and occupied as a result of WWII.

And I don't have any dreams of "US-Russian friendship". I have dreams of US-Russian neutrality, which is eminently achievable once the US government stops trying to police the world.

The fact that you refuse to acknowledge the role US government's rampant global imperialism has played in the deterioration of US-Russian relations shows that you are not thinking straight.

 

It makes no difference. there is a bigger picture.

This is the second country to have nuclear disarmed.
South Africa disarmed at the end Apartheid to make sure blacks didn't get the bomb.
(Sorry Nelson Mandela).

We wish to be partners again with which ever nuclear powered country is disintegrating next. Pakistan perhaps. Or Israel. If the Russians hadn't broke that trust they could also have one day been good faith actors with North Korea.

So that's that.
Break treaty = consequences.