Part 38 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Mar 30, 2017.

  1. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Well you for one make an excellent example. Sure of course coming from a former Christian now a believer in atheism, not surprising you are going to say atheists seem very honest to you since you are now one of their members in their congregation of no god fundamentalism.

    And please don't misunderstand me, I'm not painting a broad picture and saying that all atheists are dishonest, it's just the one's I've dealt with on these threads (I know I did say that in my post).

    That's an "idiom" expression, haven't you heard an expression like that before? Anyway it is expressing a strong feeling, strong conviction of emotion coming from "in their hearts". That's all it means.

    Supreme rulers only in their respective countries, I'm talking about a supreme ruler above everyone (I know I did say that in my post) and that supreme ruler over everyone is of course Almighty God the Creator!

    We Read in Scripture:

    15 And let the peace that comes from Christ rule in your hearts. For as members of one body you are called to live in peace. And always be thankful. Colossians 3:15 NLT
     
  2. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    I'll try to help here.

    While that same bit of water cannot simultaneously be in three different states, those three different states are all simultaneously comprised of what we call 'water', so in that sense those three things CAN all be the same entity of water. Allow me to elaborate:

    Liquid is not ice, nor is it steam.
    Ice is not liquid, nor is it steam.
    Steam is not liquid, nor is it ice.

    Yet:
    Liquid IS water.
    Ice IS water.
    Steam IS water.

    Liquid, ice, and steam are all a part of what we call "water", even though they are all separate things, and that's a very similar concept to how the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all a part of what we call "God". While they happen to be three separate persons, those three separate persons are "one" in purpose (IOW, they are in complete agreement with each other). The example of a "perfect marriage" would also be a similar idea to this, as the husband is not the wife and the wife is not the husband, yet the husband and the wife [under a "perfect marriage"] would be "one" in purpose [IOW, they would be in complete agreement with each other].

    This is why I despise the use of the word "supernatural" (by Christians and non-Christians alike), as it is a meaningless buzzword that only leads one into a state of confusion. People tend to use that word when referring to things which they do not understand, but the non-understanding of something does not somehow make it "unnatural"; it just makes it "not understood".

    The Christian God is just as natural as any other natural thing is. The essence of God is actually that he is a spaceless, timeless, immaterial, intelligent, and personal being. He is also a morally perfect being, both in his justice and in his love. That is his nature, and he does not exist nor act outside of that nature. The fact that we don't fully understand everything with relation to this truth does not somehow make God "supernatural" (whatever that means). God is just as much of a part of nature as you and I are.

    God can only be accepted by faith because the existence of God cannot be proven nor disproven. In other words, God's existence is an unfalsifiable theory (thus it can only be addressed by religion rather than by science).

    Faith is another word for the acceptance of a circular argument. To accept a circular argument as either true or false is to "have faith", as there is no way for one to prove or disprove the circular argument. In fact, any attempt to prove or disprove a circular argument would be committing a circular argument fallacy (a logic error).

    A religion is best defined as a circular argument with other arguments stemming from it. Take Christianity for example. Christianity's "initial circular argument" (the foundational unfalsifiable belief that all other arguments for Christianity stem from) is that 'Jesus Christ exists and is who he says he is, namely the Son of God'. So, for instance, when Christians argue that Jesus rose from the dead on the third day, that argument (if logically traced backwards) goes all the way back to the belief that 'Jesus Christ exists and is who he says he is'.

    The Church of Global Warming (or the belief in "anthropogenic global warming", which is oft mistaken for "science") works in this same manner. In this particular religion, the "initial circular argument" is that 'the Earth is increasing in temperature'. When warmizombies argue that "we are all going to die in 10 years if we don't immediately reduce CO2 emissions", that argument (if logically traced backwards) goes all the way back to the belief that 'the Earth is increasing in temperature'. Just like there is no way to prove or disprove that Jesus Christ exists and is who he says he is, there is no way to prove or disprove whether or not the Earth is increasing in temperature (since we have no way of measuring Earth's temperature to any usable accuracy, as we do not have the many hundreds of millions of thermometers that are required to do so, nor are they spaced evenly and read simultaneously).

    So, as I have shown using the above reasoning, Jesus Christ actually CAN be accepted via reason. Faith is perfectly reasoned, and is logically valid, however there's no way to prove or disprove it. That's why it is called 'faith' and not 'proof'.

    If you'd ever like to talk through any of these aspects of Christian doctrine, I'd be more than willing to do so (via PM might be better for such a thing).

    None taken! :) You have every right to be (and to express yourself to be) something other than a believer (whether that be an unbeliever, undecided, uninterested, or otherwise).
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
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  3. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    If you're not an atheist, and follow the scientific method, then you're implying that the scientific method is your god. It's so obvious that you weren't even aware that Almighty God the Creator is the Head Scientist.

    Oh the irony of it all.
     
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  4. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly right Alpha, it can't. That's why again I repeat for the billionth plus 2 times now, no one on God's green earth can prove/disprove Almighty God's existence.

    Science has its limits, who do suppose imposed those limits? Exactly, Almighty God Himself, the Head Scientist.

    He put us on His green earth to live our lives out, to enjoy the gift of life, although it can be very hard at times because we live in a fallen, sinful world. But life does have its good sides too, if we follow His commandments, it helps us and guides us to a rich and fulfilling life. But on the other hand if you continually break God's commandments your life will be nothing but sorrow and misery.

    But then again as we all are fully aware of, life here on earth is very risky on a daily/hourly/minute/seconds by seconds basis for all living beings on earth. Some lives are cut so short from right out of the womb, from inside the womb death can occur.

    God has given us who made it out of the womb safely a taste of life, but this is not the best that He has to offer us, He has given each and everyone of us the free will choice to spend eternity with Him, in His realm (that is off limits to us earthly mortals right now in our realm of existence) of Heavenly Paradise.

    In the meantime, He wants us to come to Him through faith, belief, trust, love and our reward for that is eternal joy & bliss in His Heavenly Kingdom. He promises His believers that He will wipe every tear from their eyes, there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. He promises us all those things will be gone forever.

    We Read in Scripture:

    4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever.” Revelation 21:4 NLT

    How can anyone not like what is written in the verse of Revelation 21:4? It's beyond me why anyone wouldn't like that but would rather take the chance that there is no such being as an Almighty God The Creator, only to find out when they leave this realm of existence and go into the realm of God's existence that oh boy this is not what I expected...I want out...but it will be too late to get out. You are stuck there for all eternity! And when you find yourself there, you'll know you made a bad choice/decision into not believing in Almighty God The Creator, The Eternal One.

    God places our salvation or damnation on our acceptance or rejection of Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ.

    We Read in Scripture:

    Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

    48 "But all who reject me and my message will be judged on the day of judgment by the truth I have spoken." John 12:48 NLT
     
  5. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

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    What you are "illustrating" is your cognitive bias.
    Humans and chimpanzees gradually evolved from a common ancestor.
    Evolution is a fact;species change over time. Even Ken Ham acknowledges this.
    Spouting scripture does not refute the evidence.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
  6. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    To be more precise, science deals in observing the world by watching, listening, observing and recording.

    We all can think like a scientist because science is curiosity in thoughtful action about the world and how it behaves.

    Quite good...probably? In my scientific observation, this statement of yours suggest guesswork, not really sure. Now if you had said something like, "Quite good, more than likely" or how about, "Quite good, highly probable" then it would suggest assuredness, confidence.

    So in my scientific conclusion/observation regarding your statement, you have no idea what you're saying. Sorry but it was all based on a scientific approach to come up with the conclusion I made.

    Now this question and answer statement of yours is even worse than the previous statement you made. It is more of an emotional statement, nothing based on facts, you even had to add vulgarity and a smiley emoticon as if it makes your statement more credible.

    The fact is you are expressing an emotional biased point of view regarding a sacred sanctified book. You weren't there at the time and so how could you even contemplate making a statement as such?

    "Fables"? How do you know it wasn't "true tales"? The fact is you don't know anything but your contempt, ridicule, mockery, of a book you detest.

    I thought like a scientist, I observed/analyzed your statements then made logical analytical conclusions based on your statements. I concluded that your statements are all null and void.
     
  7. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    That's a very sagacious comment Mjolnir. Well maybe not the kind of interaction you are thinking about but yes He interacts with us, in a spiritual way with His followers/believers.

    God comes to live in us through Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ when we are "born again". The term "born again" means to receive spiritual life through faith in Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ, the Holy Bible likens it to a rebirth and only those who are born again have their sins forgiven and have a relationship with God. The Spirit of God lives in us, and we are His dwelling place.

    We Read in Scripture:

    20 My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20 NLT

    16 And what union can there be between God’s temple and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God said: "I will live in them and walk among them. I will be their God, and they will be my people." 2 Corinthians 6:16 NLT
     
  8. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    We cannot observe and measure God because He is spirit, He is invisible to us in our realm of existence.

    No, He is not entirely cut off from us, in the sense that He lives in born again Christians, that I talked about in my previous post.

    He is only cut off from the unbelievers, but believers...He lives in the born again Christians.

    You have to be a believer, a born again Christian to have a relationship with God.

    We Read in Scripture:

    Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

    3 Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.” 4 “What do you mean?” exclaimed Nicodemus. “How can an old man go back into his mother’s womb and be born again?” 5 Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. 6 Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. 7 So don’t be surprised when I say, ‘You must be born again.’ John 3:3-7 NLT
     
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  9. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Come on, man! Everyone knows that peach trees were created before the Sun, the Moon, and the stars. It says so, right in the scripture that Mitt is always quoting as the truth.
     
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  10. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    That's right we're all sinful, obviously you misunderstood me when I said, "sinful people who are anti-God" I meant only the sinners who are unbelievers, the sinners who are believers such as we Christians are not anti-God since we believe in Him. So this should make clear to you what I exactly meant by making that statement.

    It's describing people like yourself, who are unbelievers of God, so essentially anti-God people are atheists.

    Since they are unbelievers of God, they don't believe there is such a thing as sin. Atheists view morality as subjective and not objective.

    God has given us very clear moral absolutes and so morality is objective.

    As I previously mentioned atheists view morality as subjective.

    So if that is the atheist's world view then to the atheist, "Nothing is wrong unless I say it is wrong." Then atheism is ok with immorality.

    Remember the serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer who was responsible for a series of gruesome murders of 17 young men from 1988 until he was caught on July 22, 1991, in Milwaukee?

    Well he was an atheist who was quoted, "If a person doesn’t think there is a God to be accountable to, then—then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?"

    So it's obvious that Jeffrey determined his own moral code and was subjective about it.

    So if you do find it was wrong what Jeffrey did then you are contradicting yourself, you can't say morality is subjective then object to what Jeffrey did.

    On the other hand if you find nothing wrong with what Jeffrey did then you are an immoral person just as Jeffrey was.

    Recapitulation what I've said, atheists view morality as subjective, in the sense that to them, "Nothing is wrong unless I say it is wrong."
     
  11. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Nope, sorry but it's not the same, I have furnished evidence but of course that's not the kind of evidence you desire/prefer/accept so naturally you are going to be in denial of the evidence I have presented.

    But I really don't care one way or the other if you accept or reject evidence. I'm not here to convince you or anyone else for that matter into believing what I believe. I have evidence that's why I believe in Almighty God the Creator. You say there is no evidence that's why you have no belief in Almighty God the Creator.

    So let's just leave it at that, no sense going back and forth engaging ourselves into a needless exercise of futility.

    We Read in Scripture:

    1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1.1 NLT

    20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God. Romans 1:20 NLT
     
  12. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Have you forgotten what the biblical fairy tale says? When Adam & Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they became as smart as the God character about such issues so they no longer needed God to tell them what was good and what was evil. They knew as much as he did about those things. Don't you know the difference between good and evil? If you do, then you are as smart as God.
     
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  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Donor

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    But at least we do have some clues based on relatively new ideas in Theoretica Physics.

    www.CarbonBias.blogspot.ca/
     
  14. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

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    I'd rather listen to my Peaches & Herb LP's.
     
  15. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    I say most, you say not necessarily true...so who's right?...who knows?...only the omniscient Almighty God the Creator knows!

    We Read in Scripture:

    Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

    4 Jesus knew what they were thinking, so he asked them, "Why do you have such evil thoughts in your hearts?" Matthew 9:4 NLT

    25 Jesus knew their thoughts and replied, "Any kingdom divided by civil war is doomed. A town or family splintered by feuding will fall apart." Matthew 12:25 NLT

    20 Even if we feel guilty, God is greater than our feelings, and he knows everything. 1 John 3:20 NLT
     
  16. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Well-Known Member

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    No you are making another imaginary strawman atheist post, no atheist is anti god, but it is easier for you to pretend they are, then you can argue against a position that does not exist apart from in your head.
    Well first you would have to show a god existed, then you would have to show it was your god who existed, finally you would have to show that your god had shown you what his morals were. So until you can do that your argument is mute. Now name a moral absolute.
    Again strawmaning the atheist position, some believe like Sam Harris that morality can be grounded others that it will always be subjective.
    No atheists use a variety of ways to determine right or wrong and atheists are not ok with immorality, for instance I am against some of the outdated ancient morals of the fundamentalist Christians and their immorality on issues of sexuality.
    Yes I remember him, the one who converted to Evangelical Christianity and was baptized as a "born again"

    Not telling the truth there are you, he was part of your cult when he said the words you quoted.


    No, according to the prosecution and the reason he was not considered insane was because he understood the difference between right and wrong as was a particular fan of the Exocist iii
    No just another of your strawmen, just because someone thinks that morality is subjective does not mean that I cannot say what he did was wrong and most sane, thinking people understand what he did was wrong. To suggest that you only know he was wrong because your god tells you so is very sad. Try reason.

    No you are seriously ill or you have a god that tells you it is ok to kill. Bad men do bad things, but it takes religion to make a good man do bad things. He was a bad man.
    Again a complete strawman, please quote one atheist who has written this.

    Finally a tough question for a Christian, name a moral absolute from the bible which people of all religions and faiths or none adhere to?
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
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  17. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Well-Known Member

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    Most historians believe there was a real man called Jesus who preached about the right time, then there are all the Muslims who believe in a prophet called Jesus, even the Jews believe there was an imposter who claimed he was the Messiah called Jesus. Many atheists who are interested in history think he existed it is all the supernatural stuff that most do not believe in. But then again there is very little evidence of anything other than a Jewish preacher was crucified and myths grew up around him. If I am wrong and you have some evidence to the contrary please show it.
     
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  18. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Houston!...Houston!...come in Houston! Houston we have a problem!...AboveAlpha is getting waaaaaaaay Above himself...waaaaaaaay Above his Alpha pay grade...lol

    When you start throwing words around like "infinite" your finite mind is wondering into the realm of existence that the infinite mind of Almighty God the Creator occupies!

    Let's just call it was it really is then...theories, speculations, guesswork, opinions, nonsense...not necessarily in the order I have it in.

    So if the MATH tells you Almighty God the Creator exists...will you believe the MATH? or will you automatically believe the MATH made an error somewhere?...lol

    "Infinite Versions of you and me"?...you don't say...really? C'mon now! will you please come back down to earth...Alpha!...lol

    Calling Houston!...Houston I think I might have Alpha coming back down to earth, He has been in space an awfully long time so understand where he is coming from and give him a break!

    Do you copy Houston? This is Houston...copy that! Roger...over and out!

    We Read in Scripture:

    14 God replied to Moses, “I am who I am. Say this to the people of Israel: I am has sent me to you.” Exodus 3:14 NLT
     
  19. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    You are wrong because the name Jesus did not exist until the 1630s. If the character existed, he had another name.
     
  20. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    You forgot to add...and wash the dirty laundry...lol

    Good question, well yeah you're right He chose a small group of people who were the Israelites.

    We Read in Scripture:

    7 “The Lord did not set his heart on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other nations, for you were the smallest of all nations! 8 Rather, it was simply that the Lord loves you, and he was keeping the oath he had sworn to your ancestors. That is why the Lord rescued you with such a strong hand from your slavery and from the oppressive hand of Pharaoh, king of Egypt. 9 Understand, therefore, that the Lord your God is indeed God. He is the faithful God who keeps his covenant for a thousand generations and lavishes his unfailing love on those who love him and obey his commands. Deuteronomy 7:7-9 NLT

    God chose the nation of Israel to be the people through whom Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ would be born....Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ the Savior from sin and death.

    We Read in Scripture:

    Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

    16 "For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 NLT

    In the Book of Genesis chapter 3 we read about Adam and Eve's fall into sin after which God first promised the Messiah.

    God later revealed that the Messiah would come from the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

    We Read in Scripture:

    12 The Lord had said to Abram, “Leave your native country, your relatives, and your father’s family, and go to the land that I will show you. 2 I will make you into a great nation. I will bless you and make you famous, and you will be a blessing to others. 3 I will bless those who bless you and curse those who treat you with contempt. All the families on earth will be blessed through you.” Genesis 12:1-3 NLT

    Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ is the ultimate reason why God chose Israel to be His special people. God did not need to have a chosen people, but He decided to do it that way. Jesus had to come from some nation of people, and God chose Israel.

    God had another reason to for choosing the nation of Israel, it was not solely for the purpose of producing the Messiah but He also wanted the nation of Israel to teach others about Him.

    Israel was to be a nation of missionaries, prophets and priests, to the world. God’s intent was for Israel to be a distinct people, a nation who pointed others towards God and His promised provision of a Redeemer, Messiah, and Savior...Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ.

    For the most part, the nation of Israel failed in this task. But, God’s ultimate purpose for Israel was that of bringing the Messiah into the world which was fulfilled perfectly in the Person of Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ!

    We Read in Scripture:

    Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

    "I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying. Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never die." ----John 11:25
     
  21. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Correction at the end of post #870

    We Read in Scripture:

    Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

    25 Jesus told her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying. 26 Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die. Do you believe this, Martha?” John 11:25-26 NLT
     
  22. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    How can you trust the words in a book that says that grass and trees were created before the Sun and the moon and the stars?
     
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  23. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Well-Known Member

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    Not going to argue with you about a name, but would be interested in a bit of further information.
     
  24. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    You already know the answer but it is something that people never think about. It is simply a matter of etymology. Think about when the letter "J" was created and when the "J" words came into use.

    https://www.etymonline.com/word/j

    https://www.quora.com/If-the-letter...600-how-did-Jesus-get-his-name-2013-years-ago

    All of the common "J" words that we use everyday in the English language are only about 400 years old. That includes Jerusalem, Jethro, Jezebel, John, Jesus, just, Julius, Jews, etc. The Italians originated the letter J and started using it before the English.

    You may find it interesting to do some independent research on this complex issue. If you do, please let us know what you discover. The more eyes the better.

    edit typo
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021 at 5:46 AM
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  25. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    ... of which you DENY...

    English was not the language at the time, dude... nor was Italian... The OT language was Hebrew and the NT language was Greek.

    The Hebrew name was Yeshua (Joshua, in English) and the Greek name was Iēsous (Jesus, in English).
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021 at 3:10 PM
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