Pennsylvania's Supreme Court Throws Out the State's Gerrymandered Map

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Statistikhengst, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    By giving some power to less populated areas.
     
  2. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

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    Should low population density always make your vote worth more? How will this be calculated? Should I move to the most remote cave in Death Valley so that I can have the most votes in the entire country? How will you feel when I have more votes than the entire country because I live the furthest away from everyone and use it to establish full communism?
     
    Meta777 likes this.
  3. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Well, why should densely populated areas dictate what others do? How is that reasonable?
     
  4. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    It should be minority rights, majority rule. One person, one vote. Regardless of any other factors other than eligibility.
    Why should someone who lives in a remote area get to have their vote count for more than anyone elses?
    People in densly populated areas shouldn't count for more either. They should all have the same weight.
    Per person. Again, minority rights, majority rule. One person, one vote!

    -Meta
     
  5. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What about the creation of "Black Districts"
    No gerrymandering, fewer Black districts.


    I mean don't we owe them for those years of slavery, etc. and what not. :sniff:


     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  6. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

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    because there's more people there
     
  7. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Election districts shouldn't be based on race.
    You want to help black people? Then push for more affirmative action or contribute reparations.

    -Meta
     
  8. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Then we are back to mob rule....
     
  9. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Then we are back to mob rule.
     
  10. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

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    Well, the proposal you suggested to avoid mob rule is absurd if you apply the logic consistently. If you don't have an alternative to mob rule that makes sense, I don't think I even really need to convince you of mob rule because you have nothing else.
     
  11. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No Thank YOU.


    I would contribute and support "mainstreaming".
    No more "Black n'hoods" because residents live in mixed n'hoods.
    Eugene McCarthy '68 spoke to this.
    Do Not Confuse Eugene, aka Clean Gene, with Joe McCarthy.
    Eugene delivered the "knock out blow" to LBJ while RFK cowered.
    He has been lost to history reviews of that time.
    I lived it.


    Similar to Ron Paul, when Eugene McCarthy spoke, he made such sense I do not fathom how listeners do not understand.
    Only my physician friend got the effect of Ron Paul when introduced.
    I think it must be the M.D.'s brain or somethin' innate.


    Moi, M.D. ret, :oldman:




    :nana: :flagcanada:


     
  12. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Mob rule?

    Mob rule is the unlawful control of a political situation by people (not necessarily a majority) operating outside of the conventional established mechanisms through the use of intimidation and possibly violence.
    It should not be confused with the idea of democracy or rule by the majority.

    So again I ask...

    Why should someone who lives in a remote area get to have their vote count for more than anyone elses?
    You don't think that giving one person's vote more weight is unfair?

    -Meta
     
  13. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not saying you have to support/provide reparations, or push for more affirmative action.
    Just pointing out that if you wanted to help black people, those options make a lot more sense than arguing we need to muck up our elections
    by factoring in things that unfairly give certain types of individuals more voting power than others.

    -Meta
     
  14. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    That is not how the US is setup. Each State has its own sovereignty so that the residents in each State can have some say so over their own community.
     
  15. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    The way States are setup it gives people some say in what happens in their own communities. What is right for urban New York may not be right for rural New York.
     
  16. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

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    I know how the US is set up. But the belief that what currently exists must necessarily exist is the acid that corrodes all visionary thinking, to lift a turn of phrase from my namesake.
     
  17. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    That's what local governments (mayors, city councils, boards, counties, municipalities, townships etc.) are for.
    When it comes to matters that pertain to an entire state, every person who lives in that state should have their vote count the same.
    No one's vote should count for any more or less as far as representation goes than the next person. Do you think I'm wrong about this?
    If so, then please explain. Why should rural votes be weighted any differently than urban votes?

    -Meta
     
  18. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Well it has worked pretty well so far.
     
  19. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    That is why we have local elections also. The federal government should keep its nose out of individual communities but it has imposed itself little by little over the years.
     
  20. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    I think Google's point was that there is room for improvement,
    and that we shouldn't fall into the trap of letting appeals to tradition prevent us from realizing that improvement.
     
  21. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

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    I wouldn't say so.
     
  22. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Perhaps, but then that is beside the point here, since, at least while we are talking about things such as who the states are sending to federal offices (as well as federally granted/recognized rights), at least in that particular regard, the federal government does have a legitimate interest in how those elections are set up. And even if that wasn't the case, the ideals of rule by the majority and one person one vote ought to still stand on their own merits regardless.

    -Meta
     
  23. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Forgive my dyslexia, I can't find your meaning.

    Do we Gerrymander to support a Black District or not?


    Gracias


    Moi :oldman:

    r > g


    Canada.jpg
    Do We Gerrymander :flagcanada: Districts too?
    Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic,
    regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.
     
  24. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll try to make it super clear then...

    We should not be gerrymandering......Period.

    End any practices that unfairly gives black voters more weight than others.
    Similarly get rid of districting which unfairly gives black voters less weight than others.
    Make every person's vote count just as much as the next person's, regardless of race, regardless of rural/urban status, or political affiliation.
    To that end, districts need to all have about the same number of people in them, and should not be trying to group certain people up or split certain groups apart. No weird tentacles...make the districts square/rectangular, or as close as reasonably possible.
    This Goofy Kicking Donald Duck nonsense needs to stop!

    -Meta
     
  25. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well that is clear as mud.
    If you acknowledge a Black District then you are gerrymandering or anti G.
     

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