Pentagon Has ‘Off-World Vehicles Not Made on This Earth’

Discussion in 'Science' started by Patricio Da Silva, Aug 5, 2020.

  1. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, I just need to see hard evidence at least on par with 70 years of evidence in regards to the craft. So far that is lacking for ETs. We only have these stories. Of abductions and of course Greer talks to them via meditation! And for money he will teach you too. And for money he will take you out and one will fly over! Greer kinda looks alien like! Like he could morph into a reptilian. Lol

    Greer has a huge ego and still trying to figure out how he started briefing CIA heads and military brass on ETs. He may be just a tad mentally ill. IMO. Delusions of grandeur?

    What you do see in the UFO community is the same psychology you see in religious cults. This has helped to keep that community as just weird. Sure some nuts and bolts people are interested especially those who have seen these craft personally and not just lights at night. But the good grief some of the researchers are too gullible and not critical thinkers. And don't need actual evidence. And they have been there from the start. Believing the aliens were from Venus. I saw an old film from the 50s of a gathering of these people.

    For me I don't believe the tic tac was ours. Been around too long to be made by us. Dolan had a program covering sightings in the past of tic tacs. I generally only listen to Dolan if he has govt documents, early foia released documents as evidence. He went all in on the Wilson papers even when Wilson denied it personally to Dolan. But in ufology, if one denies it, that means he is lying! Lol. Or if the person says no comment, yep, he is lying. Lol

    I know other people like you who believe the abduction tales. But they trust people more than I do. Extraordinary tales demand hard verifiable evidence. And that is missing. Out of hundreds of cases! What are the odds?
     
  2. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol. Good! But these ETs have god like powers. After all they took a monkey and messed with its genes and created homosexuals.. Uh, I mean homosapiens! And according to Linda Moulton howe, the air force told her these ETs have been on earth hundreds of millions of years. They made us! The Intel fellow with the air force was Richard Doty. He also drove a man to suicide! A guy who was watching the base for UFOs.

    Some weird stuff has happened coming from the air force. Question is, why? LMH was an emmy winning reporter at one time. These days a dd 214 and a wild story gets her complete attention. She will believe anything! Like ETs want our souls. They don't have souls. WOO...
     
  3. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    I think they plant fake reports all over the place so they can track down a leaker. Or a hacker. And, know where in the system they've been compromised.
     
  4. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Makes sense.

    With lmh though they knew she would report it.
     
  5. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, the obvious purpose is that they want to spread disinformation. But maybe that's too obvious to be true.

    I don't know what they're thinking and why they are spreading out information to the officers who will one day spread the news to the public when they're old and out of the service.

    I could guess on all of this, but it seems to me that the people in charge of all this secret knowledge don't really know what they want to do. Thus the mixed signals.
     
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  6. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Well, matter and energy behaves in a manner that is constant and inedependent of any consciousness. It's present to be examined by life of all levels of brain power.

    I don't see anything lacking there.

    And, mankind has no consistent or trestable method for examining how this universe works other than scientific method.

    So, I'm pretty much oriented to extending our understanding of this universe through science.
     
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  7. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well materialism makes the assumption matter is fundamental while idealism assumes consciousness is fundamental. This hasnt changed. But materialism is what most people believe in. That the brain somehow creates consciousness. Yet even some physicist's have said the brain may be a transceiver of consciousness as long as it isn't damaged in some way..

    Consciousness is still the hard problem. Some of the latest thinking even includes pan psychism that the contents of the universe's have varying levels of consciousness inseparable from matter. And very intelligent academics consider it. Like David Chalmbers.

    I won't argue for it though. I don't understand consciousness and how matter can produce just my own experience of consciousness. For consciousness isn't matter.

    Campbell thinks matter is composed of , at the smallest level, of information. Digital. And that info comes from Consciousness / and a metaphor called a computer. It creates the receiver, the brain, that then receives it. As it creates also the material universe. All based upon information. At the quantum level.

    But how would I know? Lol
     
  8. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Are you making a point relative to the topic?
     
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The advent of quantum mechanics and field theory changed materialist philosophy quite a bit.

    I strongly suspect that won't be the last time. As science advances our understanding of the universe, philosophy concerning our universe will be affected - as will theoretical physics.

    It's still the case that if one wants to postulate a communication mechanism that is currently undetectable either by looking for it directly or by simply attempting to detect that communiation took place, one is assuming some level of requirement to show evidence.

    Otherwise, it's religion, isn't it?
     
  10. PJO34

    PJO34 Well-Known Member

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    Wake me when "off world vehicles" means spaceships. I would really love to see a real spaceship. Can anyone imagine Trump with aliens? He would be like, "The beings from Io are low energy and very nasty. They are very unfair to me. Losers."
     
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  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In a private message back in either 2016 or 2017 an off the scale brilliant member of politicalforum stated that a particular USA company had the Stanley Meyer technology.... .and had greatly improved it but.............. since the Stanley Meyer technology had not been obtained in the most ethical possible manner........ this is a useful headline!


    http://www.theorionproject.org/en/hydroxy.html
     
  12. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or its philosophy. That then perhaps moves into science as a hypothesis. Once there is a means to test it.. Might take.years.
     
  13. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes, hypotheses can come from anywhere - there is no limit to the source. They can come to you in a dream or whatever. But, they have to be testable.

    So, there are no hypotheses concerning string theory, heaven, etc.
     
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  14. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's it...it has to be testable and falsifiable as well..

    To date whether reality is based on matter or consciousness has not been testable. Which is why it remains in the realm of philosophy.. And nothing but an assumption.

    Campbell the physicist is working on a series of experiments to test the consciousness is fundamental assumption.. It revolves around more complex double slit experiments, a series of different ones. Not sure how its working out as he crowd funded it. And has to get time in a good lab.

    I am not schooled enough in physics to understand his approach. Lol Yet I am schooled enough to understand how materialism is entrenched in academia and common perceptions in the public at large. Materialism is seen as fact instead of an assumption unless you listen to a few physicists...

    Of course I hope consciousness is fundamental over matter.. Even as an agnostic.. That brains , matter, don't create it, but rather receives it..If the transceiver is not working properly you get distorted consciousness or even little consciousness at all. This could explain abductions and other mental affections.
     
  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    It may be that versions of materialism are more popular in univeristy philosophy departments. However, such departments are usually oriented to presenting a wide range of views. Our significant universities do not operate like Bob Jones view of education.

    Also, I see no way for that to have an effect on science in our universities. Physicists give us stuff like quantum mechanics and relativity. That's a very different direction than philosophers guessing at whether the universe is "conscious".

    Tom Campbell: Show me somthing from legitimate science sources that comments on this guy. Nothing he's done sounds to me like actual science.
     
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  16. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yet if we ever discover consciousness is fundamental that would or might help quantum studies..And science in general.. And possibly give us the Big T.O.E., the theory of everything whose equation might be written on an index card.

    Let's wait on Campbell until he completes his experiments . No one else is traveling in this direction as far as I know..


    You know Tesla had a detailed vision that gave him and us technology.. He saw his invention in fine detail and then created it. And it worked. No doubt others were dismissing him saying what has this man done to deserve consideration! Lol

    Einstein wasn't paradigm changing until he finally did it. What had he done but being a patent clerk?

    So I don't buy into your opinion of campbell at this point in time. I am not a physicist but he is. And seems to know what he talks about. And there are others in his peer group that won't just dismiss or worse, diss the man. I am not qualified to do it. Lol

    Plus at this point in time, consciousness remains the "hard problem".
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2020
  17. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    That is totally empty speculation. It's potentially true for pretty much all the problems we can think up without even bothering to have a shred of evidence.
    I'm fine with waiting for Campbell to have results that others can verify. And, that's true for anyone and everyone. The issue is that I don't see anything that he's done to date that should be listened to.
    He's a good engineer. That is an entirely different realm.

    He's pushed forward in materials science, but that really is engineering, too.
    What's your justification for attempting to dump on Einstein in this way?

    He worked in physics for years, collaborating openly with major scientists of his time, producing intermediate results, discussing the works of others, etc.

    Claiming he was nothing until he hit the big time is just a false narrative.
    You don't have to be a physicist and personally review Campbell. In fact, that direction hits me as a big fat mistake.

    There is a whole world of physics out there. Even physicists examine what other physicists are saying about work being done on the advanced edges of science.

    Nobody should be above doing that. And, being less of an expert just means that MORE listening to experts is necessary.

    I don't see anyone in physics who is excited about Campbell. And, though he has a degree, I don't see evidence that his methodologies could be considered science. Having a degree doesn't sanctify the acts of the individual.

    Consciousness as exhibeted by humans is one issue among many. Outside the arena of religion and philsolphy I can find almost zero people considering this consciousness of the universe idea. And, I can find NONE of them addressing the issue with anything conforming to scientific method or comparable to the methods of theoretical physicists.

    If you can't find more than that, you sould take note.
     
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  18. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    Bob Lazar revealed these facts back in the 1980s, but we didn't have the photo/video evidence available to us today as backup. My personal concern is that our military has had these ships for decades already, & they are trying to back-engineer them for possible military use. The ET creators of these ships have been here for hundreds, or even thousands of years. Their lack of action aimed at taking over Earth is sufficient proof of their overall peaceful intent. If it were otherwise, they could have taken control over Earth long before humans became a potential threat to them. They didn't, so ETs are a proven non-threat to humanity. Dr Steven Greer says they're waiting for us to mature beyond warfare, so they can invite us into the interstellar community of which they are a part. That would open new worlds for us to explore & enjoy as part of a vast expansion of human experience. Eliminating war as a human activity seems a small price to pay for such an expansion of our interstellar consciousness. Once their presence becomes common knowledge, every country should join forces to get rid of all our militaries & establish permanent global peace for the first time, as an encouragement for ETs to open their advanced technology to us for interstellar participation.
     
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I'm constantly impressed by the size and detailed nature of conjectures that come from a total and complete absence of information.
     
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  20. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Donor

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    There have been notable scientists who expressed their dismay at the lack of ground-breaking discoveries in recent decades and concluded that serious progress probably can't be made without addressing the issue of where to look for something more fundamental than what current understanding has revealed, and that consciousness appeared to be the most likely prospect.

    About a year ago I saw an example of that on a Youtube presentation, perhaps a TED talk. However, I wasn't logged on. Later, when I wanted to make a reference to it, I did searches and reviews of relevant talks but couldn't find it.
     
  21. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Donor

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    An OBEr can access a particular otherworldly reality and later record a detailed description of the physical characteristics of that reality. When another OBEr accesses that same reality, and comes back with a matching description, I guess you'd say that's not proper scientific evidence of anything.

    Note that these other realities being accessed are not dreams since the characteristics experienced cannot be compromised to any extent as they are in dreams where contradictory absurdities can be fantasized.
     
  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I would say that dreams, near death experiences, etc. are related to how our brains are constructed and what information we have stored - our desires, hopes, experiences, beliefs, education, etc. Obviously that includes religion, views on aliens, opinions on the possibility of conspiracies, Ones expriences with scifi. etc.

    Also, human memory is a strange thing. The very act of remembering has been show to cause a rewriting of the memory as an indivisible part of the process - resulting in memories changing. One result here is that the work done by psychologists (or whomever) to delve into past experiences have been shown to result in reports from patients that do not conform to all other evidence from those who were present - thus giving rise to doubts about some kinds of therapy, legal evidence, etc.

    Overall, it's not even slightly surpriising to me that there are similar reports from individuals who are being as honest as they can be - not affected by the very human desires for recognition, conspiracies, etc.


    I'd also point out that throughout the sciences, scientists are CRAZY motivated to find evidence of life forms that differ from those we know about on Earth. They are absolutely NOT motivated to ignore anything that could be considered evidence. Scientists are conservative, of course - demanding serious evidence from themselves and others before supporting exceptional claims.

    We're spending billions of dollars looking for alien life. Such a discovery would be a permanent marker in the history of mankind. Throughout all science, alien life is one of the few universal holy grails. The idea that finding it could be hidden for any significant time is not something I can accept as possible. Humans just aren't that good at keeping secrets of that magnitude.

    This desire for exceptional findings that upset the apple cart are present throughout all science. One of the big ones is that physicists get nearly giddy while talking about the fact that the conflict between quantum mechanics and Einstein gravity could mean that our whole model of physics is majorly incomplete.

    Science is NOT interested in denial of the exceptional. It IS interested in holding a high bar on truth.
     
  23. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm not buying the implication that the consistent features of unanimous memory details obtained under the influence of altered states of consciousness might be nothing more than artifacts of memory distortions.

    The lure of upsetting the applecart doesn't mean that the forward-thinking push into the cutting edge is all frivolous.
     
  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I'm not suggesting that altered states of consciousness are required for memory distorition.

    I'm saying that WITHOUT alterned states, memory is something that can not be fully trusted. As I pointed out, this includes serious medical investigation of patient history, court testimony, etc. - cases where it is well known that distortions exist even when the individual was fully awak at the tiem of the even AND fully awake at the time of the testimony.

    Obviously, when various kinds of altered states get added in, there is every reason for results to deviate from reality by far greater margines. Plus, social influences relating to the value of various memeories has to be added as well.

    I'm not suggesting ANYTHING is frivilous. I'm saying that scientists are seriously motivated toward extending human knowledge. Can you imagine what it would mean for a scientist to be able to present evidence of life that is not of human origin???

    Suggesting that scientists are rejecting these various reports because of some desire not to rock the boat is just plain lack of any understanding of science.

    The scientists we know and laud are those who rocked the HECK out of the boat - Einstein (who trashed most of physics), Darwin, Newton, Galileo, and the rest.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
  25. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Donor

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    The occurrence of ordinary memory distortions is a given. However, they are variable from one individual to the next. Thus they are not the key factor in consistent descriptions of other-worldly realities.
     

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