Pentagon Has ‘Off-World Vehicles Not Made on This Earth’

Here's a discusion of all three Navy releases:


The three are different events. Each has its own set of blatant weaknesses as evidence of aliens. It's certaily true that gofast includes all data required to totally debunk the "alien" proposal flat out - even if one doesn't include the statement by the Navy of what they think it is.

The real problem here is that we have "true believers" along with the fact that they get money and fame for promoting the supernatural.

And, we have people who even recognize the lack of science in the claims of aliens, but still want to see it as evidence of aliens!! They're totally ready to suspend physics!!

 

But what if they don't write books but tell a researcher what they saw? Like Marcel and Salas! Or Halt?

But I can't claim these are ETs given the absence of hard evidence. Of course if our govt is hiding it , there can't be hard evidence. Just accounts that may be true or not.

But nothing wrong with conjecture. So if we didn't make these craft it is reasonable to assume something did. So what are the choices? Well ETs would be one conjecture. Or beings from another dimension..Or gods or demigods is another. Then perhaps its humans that survived a cataclysm long ago and were more advanced than we are today. And live underground or under our seas and these craft belong to them. Or its time travelers.

Or something so far out we can't think about it! Lol

Given the distances involved and the time involved, to get here the ET idea may be the less likely. Gods with a small "g" or demigods may be the most likely or an advanced race of humans that were high tech and went underground to survive .

 

Just remember any good fiction is very compelling!

Consider my fav sci fi author, Robert Heinlein! And his last book, To Sail Beyond the Sunset.

 

The claim is that a device that creates a plasma in the atmosphere could be pointed anywhere.

It's not that the plasma itself would need to move..

There has long been work on such directed energy weapons.

What the capabilities of our military are at present is not known by me.

 

I don't see a reason for giving that much oxygen.

Yes, there is something wrong with conjecture. Look what you wrote after that sentence about conjecture.

All three Navy vids support aliens ONLY if one is ready to depend on conjecture in spite of the fact that there is actual evidence.

In science, there certainly is conjecture - that's how hypotheses are formed. But, hypotheses are not touted as answers. They are the very beginning of testing and analysis that is required before any kind of claim is made.

With aliens, people abandon scientific method, physics, skepticism that demands analysis and jump to touting aliens among us.

And, when analysis debunks such conclusions, the UFO community continues lauding those making the false claims while ignoring the fact that the claims were monumental blunders made by those with no legitimate credibility.

Every one of those touting the Navy vids as evidence of aliens needs to be rejected now and forever.

They no longer warrant ANY respect or credibility.

 

He failed to debunk the tic tac. And his attempt to debunk the Gimbel was weak with his examples not matching the gun camera video.

That Fraber had eyes on the object and visibly could tell distance and knew it wasn't a winged craft blows this debunker out of the water. Indeed commander fravor addressed Mick's attempt to debunk the tic tac making mick look like an idiot. Which of course most pro debunkers are.

Fravor had the advantage in that he was eyeballing the tic tac and interacting with it trying to cut it off. Plus there were 3 other sets of eyes on it.

So a fail and piss poor job from Mick. And some dishonesty too. The Chilean video and tic tac footage had nothing in common. The distance of tic tac was known and it was close. And fravor unlike Mick is a trained fighter pilot with eyes on the craft.

I am shocked you used Mick given his disadvantage of only seeing the video while not witnessing the craft up close and its behavior.

I can't speak to the go fast but it looks like a balloon. Yet he could not replicate the shape of the Gimbel. And he was so far off from debunking the tic tac as to look desperate. Or full of bs.

I would love to see him pull that crap on fravor face to face.

 

Yes, I don't accept what you're claiming here.

For example, the idea that the pilot could tell distance is something I just plain do not believe.

The aircraft instrumentation in the tictac case could not tell the distance. The pilot in the go fast case was MONUMENTALLY wrong about everything related to time, distance altitude AND speed.

I don't believe these pilots were lying - it's just an incredibly difficult environment, and suggesting that their statements are factual representations of what happened is NOT justified.

And, suggesting that Mick was at a disadvantage for not having witnessed the same illusions in person makes no sense. The eyewitness testimony is still present for review and the far more important physical evidence of the videos themselves is available for review - while there is no evidence that the pilots were able to examine that evidence before they had made statements, which is a far larger problem.

 

I agree that saying the tic tac event witnessed by 4 pilots with instruments verifying what 4 sets of fighter pilot eyes were seeing doesn't prove or is evidence for ETs. The only evidence is the tic tac exists and was made of matter. And its behavior is not seen in our aircraft.. It out performs all known aircraft. And was doing movements above the ocean we can't do. At least with our known craft..

And I never said its existence was evidence for ETs. But it is evidence it exists and is different technologically from our state of the art air craft..

It also jammed the targeting system of frabors F 18. According to his copilot who tried to lock on targeting system.

What they call gods eye radar picked up several more UFOs at higher altitude. A fleet of them. As voiced by the copilot audibly on the recording of conversation..

Touting the navy as evidence this superior craft exists has nothing to do with ETs. No data for that . But the data is there as evidence the tic tac exists and its beyond our tech by leaps and bounds. Including its speed.

Yet some dishonest or insufficient data debunkers cannot believe it. They are like the ET folks who believe in ETs because of biased minds. Like Mick. There are critical minds but also debunkers..That always debunk even if they must ignore data to get there. That is why mick and the commander need a face to face. So people can see your typical debunker debunked by an expert in aircraft who had eyes on the craft plus combat tools.

Fraber and 3 other fighters witnessed the tic tac craft..And their instruments that allow them to take down enemy fighters.

Yet Mick thought he debunked the tic tac? Lol. Just so absurd as anyone who tries to use mick as the authority .

So now you know more than trained fighter pilots by claiming illusions? Hell you are desperate. That claim comes from a denier who dismisses without rational thought. You are like the poster here that believes in ETs with no actual evidence. You have made that clear. You a drinker? Lol On your second 12 pack?

 

Not into sci fi.

 

Greer has gone off into la la land. This kind of crap happens in Ufology, I just ignore it. Just ignore the loons, stick to the credible guys.

Aliens are operating clandestinely, and they are super sharp and clever, and there will be no 'evidence' until they decide we should have it.
Until then, all we will ever have is compelling evidence, but not hard evidence. Thing is, there is tons of it, something is going on, so, there's that. **** like this just doesn't happen in a vacuum.

Do you deny Christ ever walked the earth? I doubt he walked on water, but I don't see any reason to doubt his existence, yet there is no direct evidence of it. It would be hard to imagine how a myth could cause such a stir. There is no evidence that Lao Zsu walked the earth, but it's hard to imagine anything less than an enlightened soul could have written the Tao Te Ching. Myths do get handed down, but no myth has had an effect on the human race like Christ has, right down to 2020 being approximately two thousand and twenty years after his birth. Similarly, aliens and space craft are causing a big stir. Not hard evidence, but something is causing it.

 

Well Heinlein in one of his sci fi novels spoke of the Crazy Years. He used headlines to show the news of the Crazy Years. It reads like today's headlines of people doing crazy stuff. Like a child suing his parents. So he was a hellva prophet. As Orwell and Huxley were.

The state of ufology is a facet of Heinlein's Crazy Years.

 

Aliens are operating clandestinely, and there is never going to be any hard evidence until they decide we should have it, though they've slipped up on a couple of occasions, which has resulted in the government having it but they are keeping a tight lid on it. I doubt they are even briefing presidents any more, given that they come and go, though apparently Truman and Eisenhower, perhaps Kennedy and Nixon, all were thoroughly briefed.

I haven't seen anyone debunk the Eisenhower Briefing Document, and other majestic docs. They've tried, but the debunkers tend to be lazy, as Stanton Friedmen so easily points out, in his book that debunks the debunkers. Friedman went to great lengths, going to archives, flying here and there. If the EBD is real, there it is, right there

Plasma doesn't explain the five observables

 

Yes, after I got a crap load of shots in Navy bootcamp, it made me ill, gave me this weird metallic feeling. When I got out of the navy, I swore I'd never get another shot. I haven't and I haven't had the flu in 40 years. I know a lot about ************. The two I linked to don't strike me as BSers, but , you might think otherwise. BSers stories change. Take Bob Lazar, his story hasn't changed since he started telling it. That's why I believe him.

 

Yep people like Greer isn't helping in finding the truth of these craft. And who made them..He already knows the truth! And he will sell it to others.

What I want to know is how did he get from an ER doctor to briefing heads of Intel, high military officers and even perhaps... Presidents!

I'd like to see that progression! I am convinced he is.a fraud while because of his trump sized ego, can't see being a fraud, a con artist. Like my nephew who lies so often that he believes his own lies.

Sure even as agnostic I figure Christ existed.. Another avatar of an enlightened human being. Along with Gautama Buddha, Krishna, and Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu.

I am interested in how ancient.events became myths sometimes with archetypes . Like a earth that saw a fast rise in sea level creating vast flooding. A 400 foot rise in sea level cause by cataclysmic sudden melting of ice age ice sheets. Submerging coastal civilizations and in delta areas.

Probably happened Round 12,000 years ago. And from this the flood myth arose. Within various cultures.

 

I was lucky as we only had to endure two needles. One for the TB test and the other a big dose of penicillin in the rear. To knock out any infection. Hurt like hell!

All of the other injections lots of them, used air guns. They pushed it firmly against your upper arm and pulled the trigger! Better than needles! But would get a dull ache later on. Just couldnt jerk as the air shot in the vaccine. For it would cut you to the bone!

For me I believe so few of these people and the stories they tell. You have to believe some of what Lazar says. For some of his story has to be true.

He knew what week day the saucers would fly above s 4 and the time. Went 3 times taking other friends with him. They all witnessed the flights.

The craft had nontypical air maneuvers. They took a telescope along.

So this is evidence they were testing a different kind of craft.

Knapp believes Bob. But Stanton never did. The absence of a claimed college record Stanton could not accept. And dismissed anything Bob said about s4.

 

??

The video I posted does NOT claim that the tic tac case didn't exist.

It DOES explain how such phenomena can occur.

 

We SAW the combat tools of the jet fighter tracking the unknown object.

The combat tools reported that the object was outside the range of the tools being used.

Yet, the claim being made by those sighting the object was that the object appeared close - thus the settings they chose to use to track the object.

This is in the video. If you had watched the video, you would have seen that.

You are deciding to use witness testimony while ignoring the measurements taken by the jet fighters involved.

In fact, you discredit those masurements - simply because you want to consider that the eyewitness testimony is more sound that acutal measurements!!

And, that's just plain ridiculous.

 

You ever see a TV show called V ? Great show. We had shape shifting reptilians mixed in with humans. But unknown to most humans. They could shift into humans. But if they wanted to eat a fast snack and they loved mice, their mouth would morph into a reptile. As they gulped down a live mouse
..

 

My interpretation is based on what Frabor said as he walked Rogan through the tic tac video. Explaining the various data readouts.

I think you should watch him on rogan, a long conversation.. For it isn't jiving with what you are telling me.

 

You talking about Mick? His explanation is debunked by pilots involved. He lost credibility.

Mick has an agenda unlike the commander. He was the object of cartoon parodies after the event. Good natured ones. His reporting is coherent with the other pilots. Yet old Mick knows better?

Can't buy what you are selling.

The 99 code meant they were being jammed as it showed the object out of range when eyeballs disagreed. I think even Mick briefly admitted that. In passing.

 

Actually the measurements jive with several sets of eyeballs. And these pilots are trained observers . There isn't incoherence between sensors and what was observed. Don't know where you got that from.

The fighter had its targeting system jammed. According to the copilot in the back seat who does the targeting. The 99 code was indicating the jamming.

 

The range on the tic tac video shows that the equipment on the fighter jet has no idea how far away the object is.

And, that is exactly what is expected if the radar equipment is set to look at a significantly different distance than the actual location of the object.

It's undoubtedly the case that the equipment was set on the basis of a supposition made by visual reference in the cockpit. And, that is exactly what would happen if those in the cockpit believed the object was far closer than it actually was.

That's pretty darn clear evidence that the supposition concerning distance made in the cockpit was WRONG. The equipment looked within the range that was set, and cound not find an object to measure. That is verification.

 

Visual estimates of distance to an object that is totally unknown is beyond human proficiency.

Remember that it TOTALLY nailed the pilots in the go fast case, too.

The distance between the eyes of a human is just far to small.

Navy pilots probably care more about distance to aircaft carriers and military aircraft. Once they don't know what it is, things start not working very well.

 

Hollywood loves to repulse people.

 

That's now how it reads to me.