Pets: The Forgetten Victims

Discussion in 'Drugs, Alcohol & Tobacco' started by Starjet, Apr 17, 2018.

  1. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No man, no group, no collective, no society, no government, no matter what their cause, be it the common good, society's protection, social justice, God's commandments, Allah's wishes, whatever, has the right to violate my rights. I am a free man, and those who think they the right to rule my life get can on their hands and knees and kiss my free American ass.

    Yaron Brook--The Primacy of Individual Rights over Group Rights

     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
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  2. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is only one fundamental evil--to force others to do your bidding; whether by guns or lies.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
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  3. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We should look at Portugal, what they have done in regards to drugs, look at the stats, and emulate them, if we really wanted to minimize drug use. This fantasy of waging a war on drug use, that would end drug use is rainbows and unicorn thinking, and something the right shares with the left, this fanciful thinking which is always doomed to failure and to waste taxpayer money on.

    We should take a lesson from our earlier history where all kinds of drugs could be bought at your local store, in potions and such, to treat ailments. Our society did not implode when all drugs were legal, cocaine, the opiates, etc. You had some drug addicts who did not have to rob people in order to buy the drug, due to their low cost and availability.

    It would be much more intelligent and rational to have some drug addicts since we have them anyways, and take a portion of the money spent on the war against the american people, the drug war, and invest that in free treatment centers. Make drug addiction a medical problem and not a criminal problem.

    Many of these overdoses are coming from people not being able to get a controlled regulated opiate, given the recent crack down on doctors, and are forced into the black market for their drugs they need in order to not get sick from withdrawals.

    One thing is clear. This rainbow and unicorn thinking will not work, will never work, and we need to use intelligence and rationality if you want to minimize drug addiction. And reduce deaths from over dosing. I do not believe for a minute that our legislators are concerned about deaths, and many think that the only good addict is a dead addict. They love criminalizing an addiction and drug use. For if they did not, they would have used intelligence long ago, and noted what Portugal did.
     
  4. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh, as Nancy Reagan said, just say no! But given man has used drugs, since he dropped down from the trees, and it has always been with us, and while your stance sounds nice, it is divorced from reality. Reality is a simple thing, really when it comes to anything which induces pleasure. IF something induces pleasure, given that we have always pursued all kinds of pleasure, there will be a percentage of a population that will induce pleasure with drugs. As they do with so many other things, from buying a new car, to orgasm. Making it illegal, criminalizing it will only fill up the prisons, and cause tax payers to pay to keep it illegal and criminal. In a vain attempt to control other human beings, seeking pleasure. Just accept the fact that some people will use drugs, that it cannot be stopped, and finally accept a reality that some people in their cognitive dissonance refuse to accept.

    Prostitution is said to be the world's oldest profession, and yet it is still illegal in much of the world. Making it illegal could never get rid of it. And so, repeating the same actions while expecting different results is called insanity, and indeed it is. That people choose to be insane comes forth from human ignorance. It is how stupidity acts. And yet we love to be ignorant and stupid when it comes to such issues. I think these people should all wear t shirts that state in big bold letters, " I am one stupid and ignorant son of a bit*h, and so proud of it!" Not enough sense to pour the piss out of my boot before I don them, and so proud of it.
     
  5. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There are legal substances. Enough fighting has even gotten us marijuana legalization. Yet some want more hardcore crap to be legal, too, arguing from principle rather than practical outcome.

    Maybe it should be, too, but it's the effects of this crap on society that need to be addressed. Discouraging their use seems prudent, though this need not be done through criminalization, either.
     
  6. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am one of those who want other illegal drugs decriminalized and this issue turned into a health issue. For it is a grand waste of time and money to continue on as we have been. And I do not believe that the State should claim ownership of our bodies, and treat it as if they were the owners. I see personal sovereignty as a most basic god given right, and stupidity and hard drug use as a cost of a basic god given right. Plus, I read some stats from portugal a few years ago, and that only aided in my beliefs about this issue. To minimize the use of hard drugs should be our goal, given you cannot stop all illegal drug use without destroying our constitution. That we let a few druggies and people who will not embrace reality to destroy our constitution can happen. In a frog boil paradigm.

    The use of hard drugs and addiction is probably related to low IQs, as so many other things are. But we could minimize this problem by simply employing intelligence over our emotions. Clearly tht is not what our gov't and people want to do though. If we can ever base our civilization on logic, reason, rationality, instead of so much being governed by emotions, we might see a true Golden Age for humanity. But for as long as emotion and disconnected from reality beliefs wields such control, you can forget about it.
     
  7. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Politicians want to be problem-solvers. Too often this means opting for quick and easy solutions to problems that call for something more comprehensive.
     
  8. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course, but one would think they might be attentive enough to realize repeating actions while expecting different results, is what einstein noted as insanity. Truth is, much of our laws and policy are based upon this insanity. I do believe if humanity is ever able to live by logic, rationality, and reason, while being deeply aware of our own history as a species, we might very well see the rise of a golden age, driven by those principles, over emotion. We would begin to go a long ways in solving age old problems, from poverty to minimizing the use of addictive drugs. Not to mention war and conflict. Accepting reality and meeting that reality with logic, rationality and reason is something we have never achieved consistently. We have the ability to do it, and yet why have we not done it? I think it is because of emotions, but also a value system which cannot discern reality, and places the ideal which can never be achieved, over the reality of what can be achieved, using those principles that science must use in order to advance.

    While we laud being rational beings, we are in effect, far from that. We can be rational, but only when it comes to particular things. So obviously our reality is one where other things can and do trump these principles, are more powerful in actual operation. And then we seem not to notice.
     
  9. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Forgetten.
    Forgotten.
    Forgoeten.

    When the Goths were choosing words they obviously favored "forgotten" over "forgetten" and "forgoeten" but in Gothic that would have been the conjugation of the verb.
     
  10. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    I have seen lots of homeless people with their dogs.

    Not cats however. Cats won't tolerate a homeless companion human on the streets.

    The cat will simply find a new owner with a new home.

    Cats are picky.
     
  11. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Politicians are actually vote getters.

    That is the only problem that they ever solve.
     
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  12. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    A very selfish philosophy you have, you do indeed.
     
  13. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yep. Cats go to where the food is. :D
     
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  14. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    You're going to need a black and white armband soon.
     
  15. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    The police don't want homeless dope addicts in their jails.

    They police prefer that they wander on the streets instead.
     
  16. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    Population control is a very complicated topic.

    It all begins with Malthus. You need to read about him and his theories.

    Then you need to tackle biosphere theory and carrying capacity of the Earth. The latest calc's put this at around 10 billion. We are getting close.

    Sometime within the next 3 billion births the peoples (plural) of the Earth need to make up their minds what to do. China is probably right. At 2 births per family the population actually declines. But in places like China and India this has led to a preference for males and therefore there are not enough females to go around after about 1 generation. So this proposal is a two edged sword.

    Starvation will be the price for failure.

    I know you are a smart G.I. Joe and soon to be 2nd Lieutenant out of O.C.S. So I have posed these issues for you to consider.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  17. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This isn't assuming there will be some type of illness that weeds out millions?
     
  18. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that these addicts have gotten themselves addicted, and they can't quit cold turkey because they cannot bear the physical pain of doing so. And even with treatment and substitute drugs many if not most still remain addicted.

    Addiction is by and large a one way ticket to death.
     
  19. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    ... ass-u-me Soldier. You can't do that. You are not a slimy civilian.
     
  20. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    This sounds like it is coming from an addict.

    So what are YOU @Starjet addicted to?
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  21. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Short of successful intervention, I suppose so. Seems like a good number also end up finding religion and quitting that way (useful mechanism for helping them overcome the addiction, it seems).
     
  22. yiostheoy

    yiostheoy Well-Known Member

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    I personally know very few recovered addicts.

    One that I do know is a waitress/bartender at a bar/grill restaurant.

    She talks about how hard it was to quit.

    I'm glad she did it.

    I don't know anyone else who has been successful. Everyone else I know in that boat is a relapse.
     
  23. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I wonder how much of it can be attributed to our economic system. Most of us are pretty poor and often suffering from debt, family issues, stress from being unable to find sufficient employment, you name it. It's no great wonder that many people dive into substance abuse. What do they have to live for?
     
  24. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually, only the best operational orders are planned only under assumption. If you don't assume, you can't plan for it.

    Op-order 101
     
  25. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ....but keep the disability checks coming, amirite?
     

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