Discussion in 'Asia' started by dreamin'gal, Sep 28, 2014.
yeas i do. HK once was a British colony, and that is the point. Britain won't let it go.
Anything against China's interests is against Pakistan's interests, so it is deemed terrorist.
USA says same thing of people who act against its interests in e.g. South America, Africa, Middle East, Asia -- it calls them terrorists and then kills them!!
China has therefore got right to call protestors terrorists.
I get your point, in fact I hold the same point before. I used to condempt the young people of HK always against everything which suggested by HK or China Government, I thought they damaged the society.
But recently, what is happening in Hong Kong makes me change my mind,
Young people didn't destory HK, the government do.
as I said before, Mainland governmet wants to purge HK, by her population engineer, by sending 54 thousands mainland immigrants to HK each year, and this immigrant policy has run more than 15 years. HK government has no authority on that.
Meanwhile, through HK government, enact new policies of primary and secondary education, force to input nationalism (which contains many fake concept and information) to our children.
Using mainland population replaces local Hong Kongers, who have strong identity feeling of "being a Hong Konger", esp. young people who was borned at 80s and 90s, I am one of these people.
If we keep cooperate all the time, we will probably slowly be wringed to death .
in the US police has guns, and armor vehicle, full military gear. no big deal, hongkong got it easy.
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you do know the protestor acount about 4-5% of HK populations. furthermore its internal china issue, as long as they dont start shooting ppl that is.
keep it up, HK stock dip 500pts, soon your competitiveness as fiance center going lose to shanhai/singapore.
Hong kong ppl has superiority complex they think they are so much better than mainlander, yes i talk to many hongkoners.
also even by some magical chance hk did get to choose their governor, he/she still gonna have to cozy up with CCP, cause HK economy depend on it. HK need mainland more than mainland need HK. eg. HK can only provide ~30% fresh water, ~30-40% energy, rest is coming from elsewhere, mostly china.
HK is part of china, of course ccp gonna make you learn about china, same as UK/US does. you are not under british rule anymore, if you did you will learn british history too.
and yes mainland chinese has ever right to move into HK as long they obey HK laws, this is not same as illegal mexican move to US. imagine california complain midwest americans move into CA. you are not a different country, you are part of china now. this goes to same idea that many HKoners look down upon mainland chinese, cause they move in or poor etc.
Yes I do
HK is a special economic zone although technically a part of the PRC it still retains unique characteristics and it's not like the rest of China.
hence there are freedom of press/speech there. gotta ask, what they try to achieve by doing this?
free election, no matter whos in charge of hongkong, they gonna have to establish a good relation with china. as for mainland immigrate, the issue exist no matter whos in power. just look at UK/US, both has immigration issue, thats not even from its own country. For HK to stop mainland immigration its like asking one of the 50 US state not to accept resident from another state.
free speech/press? HK already has that.
better economy? well HK stock drop 500pts today, these protest are damaging HK economy by taking place in major highway and finance district. imagine US stock if there are thousands occupy wall-streets, block all road for days, weeks etc.
well i sympathize with protestor's idea, its not gonna work unless there are million/hundreds-thousands protestors, but at a cost of sever economic down turn + china has all the card it needs to make HK economy more miserable than it already is. just look at Arab spring, Ukrine, and we all know what happen afterwards.
shanhai/singapore already compete with HK, it doesn't look good for HK if this continue indefinitely. we all know CCP is not gonna give in.
Yes, at least until now, and what will be in future...? it depends today.
today is 30th Sep in HK, and tomorrow is 1st OCT, the national day of China, and the next day is Chung Yeung Festival, two public holidays... so more Hong Kongers can join....and then coming the Sat and Sun, this is a key moment of Hong Kong.
it's difficult to start the first step, yet it is much more difficult to continue to walk to the goal...
The potential threat start to surface....
the government starts to play the dirty tricks, many fake information, misleading message flying online,
quite a lot of protestors reported that some "strangers" do instigation, like confronting police....some strangers damage the supplies of protesters...damage the utilities....
Meanwhile....the student leaders and the politicians have a dispute for the campaign......it is settle now but how long can it last....?
in fact, we all have the same final goal but about the details...there can be very different among the protesters. and it is very possible to split up before the negotiation to China, if we could.
PS: just watch the local TV said the police arrest a foreigner for .... he intented to recruit member of ....ISIS....!!!how funny, I think HK police is almost collapse, so they have to try every mean they can to stop the campaign...! no matter how ridiculous!
and now they start to careful about foreign protestors...
the road is really harsh...
To make the authorities aware that the democracy that HK has enjoyed is being eroded.
Right but there are differences between the two and that's something that I think many HK's would like to see maintained.
Both the US and UK do have immigration issues but the nature of the problem is different.
The stock market will always survive.
Considering how difficult it has been for China to attain stability after nearly a hundred years of on and off warfare. I think they will have to compromise or at least learn to do so.
China has had a reputation for doing things like that on the mainland so it's possible.
That does seem unusual. A propaganda ploy perhaps?
HK never had full democracy, so there is no such thing as eroded. whos know what will happen in future.
there are no difference whos in charge, anyone in charge has to has good relation with china, and china can influence due to its economic, and because HK is part of china.
immigration is same, ppl searching for better life whether in HK/US/UK
stock market is already dip, and will continue to do so.
China CCP never compromise in term of tibet, taiwan, and democratic movement. it compromise on economy, environment, corruption protests. just check china history on democratic movement and youll know.
you dont know what future will happen, you just made some haste decision that it will happen.
yes there are ISIS chinese fighting in syria so dont be surprise if some guy try recruit chinese muslim.
as for strangers instigation, well do you know every one of the thousands protestors, there are always rioter inside peaceful protest, there will be people taking advantage of the situation.
now the article say china could intervene, which i doubt it. china only need to sit and watch HK economy going down the drain, then they will just say "look your student protestors cause such economic dmg etc etc" even right now 45% HK resident against the protestor due to instability, number will go up as time goes on, especially if china just sit out and watch, and let the protestor destroy its own economy. good luck for local to finding jobs after that
Limiting the candidates from a pool of people that Beijing decides is an erosion.
HK isn't a part of China in the same way as say Shanghai. It's a special economic zone so of course it matters as to who is in charge.
In fact the last four out of five chief executives were HK natives.
That maybe the basic principle but it doesn't mean that the issues are the same.
And it will recover. The rise and fall of stocks are not uncommon.
Which will be it's undoing. It's that heavy handedness that's causing unrest amongst the Uigurs.
I'm familiar with Chinese history as it was my livelihood at one point.
erosion mean something exist before and slowly gone away. HK never had free election, so there is nothing eroded in term of election.
yes economic zone, hence the person in charge has to kiss up to CCP no matter who.
then what do you know about immigration of mainlander to HK
stock market, did you read my previous post from businessweek. recover in years also is recover, remember 2008 recession.
and how many mainlander support uigurs, how many western support them now after Uigur were found in syria with ISIS, after they bomb/kill over hundreds in china over the years.
if you familiar then you already know the cost etc etc. every news from china/western already indicate china has NO intention to back down. tell you what wait for few weeks then we can see the result.
Don't you think that having Beijing only approved candidates isn't an erosion?
If that goes ahead then it means that any local can be barred from running in the executive election because Beijing decides that's the case.
I think you're missing the point. Hong Kong can decide on things that provinces can't.
You said that both the US and UK have parallel if not similar migration issues.
I believe this is incorrect as the migration problem in the UK consists of legal migrants that being from the EU.
The US however has a problem with illegal migrants.
To be honest I take newspapers and tabloid press with a pinch of salt. I never take it as gospel.
Maybe if the PRC were to stop destroying their homes and evicting them into substandard accommodation then maybe they might see less reason to see Beijing as an interferer.
I do. Over a century of on and off civil war, starvation of rural China, subjugation of Tibet, the Uigurs and the seizure of inner Mongolia and even then it took decades before China would open up to international trade.
Hong Kong was largely exempt from China's troubles of the past. In fact it wouldn't have grown into what it is now without British governance and it's self-governorship.
I agree it is too early and I also agree that it's unlikely that Beijing will withdraw considering their history.
However I was merely stating that this is unwise if China wants to remain stable and needs to learn to compromise if it wants to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past.
Thank you for your kindness and concerns towards Hong Kong!
Right now, so so many things are happening in HK...each day has new situation.
I keep following the new movement of this campaign...but right now I cant consolidate the things very well to write some solid and clear stuff... Just know that, GOVERNMENT can be very ugly, and very dirty, very evil...both HK government and mainland.....when they fear to give freedom to their people.
Many right wing Americans won't even lift a finger when minorities complain about police or government abuses in the USA such as in Ferguson, Missouri.
While I and others can sympathize with your efforts, don't expect people to stand up here when they won't even stand up for the needs of fellow Americans.
Not gonna loop over the same argument over and over. lets wait few weeks and see..
Fair enough. There's no point speculating right now.
I mean, what did the people of Hong Kong expect?
If memory serves, there was a lot of local support for Britain giving up it's colony and returning it to Communist China. So that's what happened. Hong Kong had a grace period because at the time, I think China felt it needed Hong Kong as is to facilitate it's link to Western markets and capital, but that's not the case any more, so Hong Kong is being more fully integrated into Communist China.
The people of Hong Kong wanted this, so they got it, hard. It's really hard to be sympathetic for people who were naive enough to think they were going to be a special snowflake forever.
i think giving the chance in 97 HK will prefer stay with britain, however, there will be a war between china and britain. so no matter what HK is gonna go back to china.
the protest is not about past freedom but about future elections.
CCP dont want a mayor who will go up against china mainland, that will create a headche for both china/HK, hence they want someone at least ok with ccp.
btw HK are not getting any sympathy from mainland chinese, ever since HK local start label mainlander "locust' and look down upon them(even the one migrate from mainland). the irony is ~70% of fresh water, and ~50-60% energy and 90% tourist coming from mainland.
look like china will ignore this, wait and watch, the longer this goes the more economic damage will be, better move the protest to a park or somewhere doesnt affect city financial district or main highway. if this was wall street riot place will be there already to disperse the crowd.
I hope the Hong Kong protestors make their voices heard about wanting free and fair elections, and that they get it.
They want to replace aristocratic tyranny with tyranny of the majority, so I don't particularly care for their cause - but hey, it's the more representative option so I guess I can apathetically get behind it.
Jesus Christ Almighty, Iraq, Ukraine now Hong Kong?
What the Bloody (*)(*)(*)(*)? We don't have enough kung fu movies?
Seriously, NO, Just No, No more. We already have two wars where if we intervene the only result will be that in the end, BOTH sides will hate us. We CANNOT guarantee the freedom of the entire ****** world from everybody.
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