Question For John Atheist: Don't You Want To Remember Your Good Deeds Forever?

Again you simply cannot back up your assertions, list the horrible deaths that all apostles died, bet you cant!

 

It sounds like you want John Atheist to be an egocentric narcissist, that his motivation is self aggrandizement. Spoken like a true bigot.

 

No, just the opposite of being an "egocentric narcissist."

No, just the opposite of "self-aggrandizement."

"Egocentric narcissist" is your personal spin because you
didn't personally like the OP.

"Self aggrandizement" is your personal spin because you
didn't personally like the OP.

The OP pays John Atheist several compliments, but you
used your Free Will to ignore all the good parts and to
put your personal spin on what I wrote in order to
make what was Good into something Bad.

But you're just an unbiased unprejudiced seeker of truth,
right? You will "follow the evidence anywhere it
leads", right? You're not prejudiced against Christians
any at all , , oh no, of course you're not --- this is why
you called me a "true bigot."


"It sounds like you want John Atheist to be an egocentric narcissist,
that his motivation is self aggrandizement. Spoken like a true bigot."___Edna Kawabata
You know that I wrote the OP.
You say the OP was "spoken" like a "true bigot."
So you are discussing ME PERSONALLY rather than
discussing the OP.
You used ad hominem name-calling in this thread.
In the context of what you wrote you are calling me
a "true bigot" because you know that I wrote the OP.
"Spoken like a true bigot" you said.
Is not you doing that a Rule Violation?


____________


Just for the record, here is the OP where I said several
Good things about John Atheist and paid John compliments.
See the bolded red below for some of the good things I wrote
about John Atheist.

JAG Wrote
~ Regarding John Atheist ~
~ Introductory Remarks ~
John Atheist,
You do desire to live a heroic life and to be remembered
for your good deeds, don't you? I think you do.
You have lived your life to help others, haven't you? Yes,
you most likely have.
You have lived by the Golden Rule that says do unto
others as you would have them do unto you, haven't
you? Yes, you probably have lived that way.
But on your atheism let us assume that you die and
cease to exist forever --- here is a short piece I wrote
about this atheistic cease-to-exist sadness.

A Monument To John Atheist
by JAG
Let us say that your risked your life to save 3000 people that
were stranded in a dangerous storm and in so doing you lost
a leg, but you were successful in rescuing them and the "powers
that be" gave you a medal for your heroic action and later a
grateful nation erected a statue of John Atheist and it stood
for 500 years.

That would matter to YOU in the short term, but not in the
long term. On your atheism there would come a time when
John Atheist ceased to exist -- and became this 00000

If John Atheist does Cease-To-Exist, then in the long
term it would not matter to YOU that you had acted
heroically to save the lives of other human beings.

If some humans remembered you for 5000 years it would
NOT matter to YOU because you Ceased-To-Exist and
had become this 00000.

So what point am I making? Answer: You need spiritual
tools to arrive at what really matters.
John 3:16
{1) believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and "perish"

John Atheist now has Eternal Life , , , ,

Here on this spiritual ground your heroic action would
matter for all Eternity. It would be FOREVER in your mind
that you had performed a noble heroic action that helped
other people at great cost to you. It would be known by untold
billions of human beings who were sharing Eternal Life with you.
It would matter to YOU and to THEM . . . FOREVER.

Now why on Earth, would that NOT appeal to you?
Why would you NOT desire to be known forever.
And remembered forever by large numbers of
people that YOU had personally helped by living a
noble heroic life?

Why does it not make you very sad to think that all
your past noble heroic acts will be reduced to 00000
and will never be remembered by you?

JAG

``

 

This deserves its own post block.

But you're just an unbiased unprejudiced seeker of truth,
right? You will "follow the evidence anywhere it
leads", right? You're not prejudiced against Christians
any at all , , oh no, of course you're not --- this is why
you called me a "true bigot."


"It sounds like you want John Atheist to be an egocentric narcissist,
that his motivation is self aggrandizement. Spoken like a true bigot."___Edna Kawabata
You know that I wrote the OP.
You say the OP was "spoken like a true bigot."
So you are discussing ME PERSONALLY rather than
discussing the OP.
You used ad hominem name-calling in this thread.
In the context of what you wrote you are calling me
a "true bigot" because you know that I wrote the OP.
"Spoken like a true bigot", you said.
Is not you doing that a Rule Violation?

_________

I never one time ever called you a name.

Why the hostility?
Why the hostility over an OP that pays John Atheist
several compliments?

JAG

 

What's wrong with you? Can't you get it into your head that many people do not need their deeds to be knownj. They are satisfied to just help people. You're too engrossed in 'rewards' or 'frightening' people. Why should anyone - secular humanist or not - publicise their beliefs on buses. You want to try to frighten people into religious beliefs? Why not frighten them into believing by threatening them with hell on the other side of the bus. You expect life after death. Why? Because a book tells you? Or are you frightened for yourself? And why should there not be a 'spiritual' life for all. You've personally met someone who has returned from the grave?

Your posts are desperate for recognition that your beliefs are superior to any other And they are not.

 

For all the whining above, JAG never actually addressed the charge of ego centricism. How is wanting to remember your good deeds forever not ego centric? Why else would you want this if not to feel good about yourself?

 

Your chief selling point for eternal life is this motivation.....

"Now why on Earth, would that NOT appeal to you?
Why would you NOT desire to be known forever.
And remembered forever by large numbers of
people that YOU had personally helped by living a
noble heroic life?"

You seem to think that is an attractive motivating force behind John Atheist's good deeds.
It is the opposite if he believes there is no afterlife to receive those "rewards".

 

I am not selling anything.
I have no "selling point."
Not any more than your posts are "selling" what you believe.
Are you "selling" your name-calling?
You called me a "true bigot" because I wrote an Opening Post
that you did not personally like.
Are you "selling that"?
When you post in the Political Forums are you "selling" what you
post?

_______________


I wish to emphasize the noble and heroic deeds of John Atheist.
You can put any spin on it you want to. Free Will, you have it.

A Monument To John Atheist
by JAG
Let us say that your risked your life to save 3000 people that
were stranded in a dangerous storm and in so doing you lost
a leg, but you were successful in rescuing them and the "powers
that be" gave you a medal for your heroic action and later a
grateful nation erected a statue of John Atheist and it stood
for 500 years.
, , ,

Here on this spiritual ground your heroic action would
matter for all Eternity. It would be FOREVER in your mind
that you had performed a noble heroic action that helped
other people at great cost to you. It would be known by untold
billions of human beings who were sharing Eternal Life with you.
It would matter to YOU and to THEM . . . FOREVER.

I KNOW there is.
John Atheist was a hero.
There was indeed an attractive motivating force behind John
Atheist's good deeds.

I hold a bright cheerful view of the future for John Atheist -- that he
will become a believer and that his heroism will be remembered by
him and others for all eternity. That beats all Gloomy and Doomy
and Defeatist expectations for John Atheist. I write bright cheerful
OP's as a general rule. John Atheist is my fictional character and he
can be unlike many atheists that you personally know.

You have seen movies with an alternative ending.
Well an OP can have one too.

Here is how my fictional character of John Atheist turned out , , ,

"John became a believer in the Lord Jesus as his personal Savior
and John joined a local Bible believing Christian church and lived
to the good old age of 98 and died and went to be with his Lord Jesus
for all Eternity and John remembered his good, noble, and heroic deeds
forever and ever, and so did all the untold billions of Christians that
were in Heaven with John,."___JAG

How do ya like that ending?


JAG

PS
There is nothing bigoted in my OP.

How about an apology for calling me a "true bigot?





``

 

You believe atheists are attracted to self-aggrandization is the point of your post.

 

What's there to explain? You can be "totally convinced" of something, and still be wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyr has several lists of people who have died for their beliefs (list there is religion, but it has a link to similar lists for political causes), and many of those are mutually exclusive, so the majority of them have to have been wrong. The point about being duped is that you don't know that you're being duped, so why would it be any more believable that he was right than that he was wrong?

 

I see you failed to answer my explicit question. I wasn't asking whether "bug tells the truth", but whether it tells any more of the truth than "lion" would, or if your choice to talk about bugs instead of lions is a hypocrisy. I have no particular "preference" of lions (my ideal is still to skip any links other than casual examples, and explain it in words), I use the difference between lions and bugs only to gauge whether your representation is fair.

So? By that logic, would you embrace being called a bug person?

I don't think I have said that it is hypocritical. If there is some way in which your posts are not hypocritical, I am giving you every opportunity to explain it.

I went to an American-heavy site explicitly to hear from people that I don't already agree with (I have other avenues should I need someone that I agree with). Besides, I am known to disagree with the non-Christians as well (just ask Freedomseeker or Kokomojojo), I don't rely on an argument ad populum.

I would object to that. It seems like a misuse of busses and advertising money/opportunity. Certainly, it doesn't seem like something that needs saying or advertising.

Is it really that implausible that I just have enough of an attention span to remember that you haven't justified your statements?

Again, you're answering a different question to what I'm asking. I'm not asking you whether lions would also be an acceptable comparison, I'm asking you why you favoured one over another, in particular while demanding that I do not favour one over another.

Where did the "old sick" lion enter the equation? Because that again sounds like it's something you add because it sounds bad, rather than the role it plays in the argument.

I mean, if you have a non-hypocritical reason to be adamant about bugs but failing to remember lions, it seems to me that it would be in your interest to show it.

Sure, and if someone did, I could, and potentially would, address the reason why someone called me a joke. What makes someone/something a joke, and why would I satisfy those criteria? (I imagine a lot of the details would be clear from context).

Smear tactics differ from normal discourse or debate in that they do not bear upon the issues or arguments in question. (source)​

It seems to me, my objections refer directly to things you have posted, my guess is that the same is true for whoever wrote the other thing (but then, I don't know the exact context). The smear I'm accusing you of is your selection of animals (bug rather than for instance lion), which doesn't actually derive from the issue of there not being an afterlife (since that's no more true for bugs than it is for lions).

 

As an atheist I think John Christian is motivated to do good works here on Earth because afterwords....

"Here on this spiritual ground your heroic action would
matter for all Eternity. It would be FOREVER in your mind
that you had performed a noble heroic action that helped
other people at great cost to you. It would be known by untold
billions of human beings who were sharing Eternal Life with you.
It would matter to YOU and to THEM . . . FOREVER."

Would this egocentric motivation for good works be a bigoted view of Christians?

 

Your "think" could be wrong.
I say it is wrong.
John Christian can have good motives.
John is my character and I say that John DOES have good motives.
John is not egocentric.
"Egocentric" is your personal spin because you do not emotionally like the OP.
You took something Good --- and willfully turned it into something Bad.
Besides all that only God knows the true heart's intent.
You do not know John's true motives.
You saying that John Christian's motivation is "egocentric"
does not mean that it is egocentric --- it only means YOU
claim that it is.

A very good and noble motive.

It is NOT egocentric.
It is not a bigoted view of Christians.

Best.

JAG

PS
What about your apology for calling me a "true bigot."?


``


``

 

False.
100% false too.
You do not know what I believe.


JAG

Where is your apology for calling me a "true bigot"?

``

 

Incorrect.
I have answered it many times.
You forgot what I told you.
You keep asking me that question.
I have told you many times that we can keep your Lions in the list with
Bugs and all the other entities on that list.

Yes Bug tells "more of the truth" that does Lion.
Just as "lion" tells "more of the truth" that does Bug.
How so?
Because both Bug and Lion are true and both make their
contribution to the subject.
Just as does Peat Moss.
And Houseflies.
And Mosquitoes.
People have mental images of ALL the entities on that list and
they have a right to think of their mental images when they think
of your Religion of Secular Humanism.
How so?
Because each entity on the list may conjure up a different image
in the minds of different people.
Some people like Bugs.
And they eat them.
Some people eat Dogs and Cats too.
Some people like Lions too.
They admire them.
They hang pictures of Lions on their walls.
Let us KEEP Lions on the list.
Forever and ever.

No it is not a hypocrisy.
hypocrisy - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.
I stand by every Bug and Lion and Housefly and Road Kill and House Plant post I have made
and stand by them all proudly too.

It is totally fair.
i want to keep ALL on the list.
I want to keep all that stuff inside Wikipedia too.
If we had busses big enough I would agree to putting the entire
Wikipedia article on the side of the bus.
I do not want to hide anything.
Let us tell the Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing But The Truth
about your Religion Of Secular Humanism that says that humans
have the same identical ultimate destiny-End as do Cockroaches,
and Rats and Yard Weeds and Lions --- which is ceasing to exist
as in Oblivion.

More later , , ,


JAG

 

, , ,lol , , ,
I am accusing you of smearing me, because you accuse me
of smearing you -- maybe we are smearing each other.

i am accusing you of smearing me because I am telling the
Truth about Bugs and Lions and their relationship to your
Religion Of Secular Humanism and you are smearing me
for Truth-telling. Smear away , , lol , , its harmless enough.
So Smear to your heart's content.

My view is that I have told the Truth about Secular Humanism
and the Truth can NEVER be a smear. You keep on saying
"Bug rather than Lion" even though I have agreed, maybe a
dozen times, to use Lion as well as Bug. I desire to keep
ALL the entities on that List. I will not give up Peat Moss either.
Nor Houseflies. How about Elephants? Let me add Elephants
to the List. People seem to like Elephants. Does Elephants
make you happy? How about Reindeer? Let us add Reindeer
to the List. Brings to mind Santa Claus. People like Santa.

Is there One {1} on the List that, on Secular Humanism,
does NOT have the same identical ultimate-End destiny
as do human beings? Answer: No there is not.

So?

So there is no problem with keeping the entire List? The entire
List is the Truth.

On your very Sad Religion Of Secular Humanism, human beings
have the same identical ultimate destiny-End as do every entity
on that List down there --- Lions, Cockroaches, Rats, Houseflies,
Road Kills, House Plants, Rats, Yard Weeds, Grass, Bugs,
Elephants, Reindeer, etc --- all end up ceasing to exist as in
Oblivion.

~ Humans
~ Grass
~ Weeds
~ Lion
~ Fish
~ Housefly
~ Spiders
~ Cockroach
~ Cow
~ Bats
~ Geese
~ Buffalo
~ Horse
~ Mule
~ Zebra
~ Bug
~ Rat
~ Mouse
~ Black Roach
~ House Plant
~ Mosquito
~ Pig
~ Road Kills
~ Turtle
~ Hog
~ Peat Moss
~ Snake
~ Ants
~ Elephants
~ Reindeer

You would think that by now, we would have gotten past talking about
this issue. But you can't seem to get it off your mind. Like the thread
"atheists who celebrate" --- you could not get that off your mind either.

Don't get me wrong -- I enjoy chatting with you. I enjoy it a lot. So I will
chat with you as long as you want to chat. It would be nice however if
we could move on to more interesting subjects. Maybe one day, er?

By the way, if they mention my 1 -6 then I am going to request that they
embrace 11 and state my 14.

Best.

JAG


``

 

People are remembered or forgotten regardless of what they believed in life, and my wishful thinking that I can live forever just by believing some silly thing that others tell me to believe will not alter reality.

Humans are mortal, like every other animal on earth, and it is our self-awareness and our awareness of mortality that even makes religion so universally needed and desired. Religion exists in part to comfort us mortal beings with pleasant fantasies of not being mortal after all.

 

"adamant"___Swensson

adamant - "refusing to be persuaded or to change one's mind."

I am adamant about each and every entity on the List.

So?

So I therefore can not be "hypocritical." --- I will NEVER forget to "remember Lions"

So there is no problem with keeping the entire List? The entire
List is the Truth.

On your very Sad Religion Of Secular Humanism, human beings
have the same identical ultimate destiny-End as do every entity
on that List down there --- Lions, Cockroaches, Rats, Houseflies,
Road Kills, House Plants, Rats, Yard Weeds, Grass, Bugs,
Elephants, Reindeer, etc --- all end up ceasing to exist as in
Oblivion.

~ Humans
~ Grass
~ Weeds
~ Lion
~ Fish
~ Housefly
~ Spiders
~ Cockroach
~ Cow
~ Bats
~ Geese
~ Buffalo
~ Horse
~ Mule
~ Zebra
~ Bug
~ Rat
~ Mouse
~ Black Roach
~ House Plant
~ Mosquito
~ Pig
~ Road Kills
~ Turtle
~ Hog
~ Peat Moss
~ Snake
~ Ants
~ Elephants
~ Reindeer

Best.

JAG

_________

By the way, you may have heard the good news about my OP

You have seen movies with an alternative ending.
Well an OP can have one too.

Here is how my fictional character of John Atheist turned out , , ,

"John became a believer in the Lord Jesus as his personal Savior
and John joined a local Bible believing Christian church and lived
to the good old age of 98 and died and went to be with his Lord Jesus
for all Eternity and John remembered his good, noble, and heroic deeds
forever and ever, and so did all the untold billions of Christians that
were in Heaven with John,."___JAG

How do ya like that ending?


``

 

Not a great idea to trust base instincts (vanity, in this case), when shopping for big ticket items.

Someone used scammers as comparison .. and that works. After all, the overweight 68 year old American chain smoker with diabetes and unpaid debts, is absolutely the kind of man that gorgeous 24 year old Thais and Russians are going to fall in love with.

 

You believe those motivated to do good works in order get praise is a good and noble motivation?
To use good works to inflate ones ego sounds more like a crutch for the insecure rather than a heavenly goal.
If an atheist believed that was the motivation of Christian good works I would say that's a bigoted attitude.

 

Why would anybody ever apologize to you when you continuously attack others without apology?

 

You are determined to keep restating your personal spin.

You are determined to keep on attempting to turn what is a
Good thing into a Bad thing.

It is a Good and Noble thing to seek the praise of God and to
seek to please Him by doing good deeds.

It is a Good and Noble thing to desire to remember one's
good and noble deeds. {Your "egocentric" is your SPIN}

It is a Good and Noble thing to desire others to remember one's
good and noble deeds. {Your "egocentric" is your SPIN.}

This is why we have The Medal Of Honor awarded to hero's

This is why we have official ceremonies to honor hero's
who do Good and Noble deeds.

We rightly desire to remember and honor their Good and Noble
deeds and to have THEM also remember their Good and Noble
deeds.
___________


You do not emotionally like the OP so you will "grab" anything
you can "come up with" --- in order to belittle and discredit my
Good and Noble OP.

Your approach is biased and prejudiced against the OP because
you do not emotionally like the Good and Noble message that
the OP presents.

__________

"Egocentric" is your personal spin because you do not emotionally
like the OP.

You took something Good --- and willfully turned it into something
Bad to suit your preferences.

Besides all that only God knows the true heart's intent.
You do not know John's true motives.

Regarding John Atheist now become John Christian , ,
You saying that John's motivation is "egocentric" does not mean
that it is egocentric --- it only means YOU claim that it is. Your Spin.

What kind of wiggle and squirm is that?
You have moved slyly away from calling me a "true bigot" to
now talking about "a bigoted attitude"

You called me "a true bigot."

You know that I wrote the OP.
You say the OP was "spoken like a true bigot."
So you are discussing ME PERSONALLY rather than
discussing the OP.
You used ad hominem name-calling in this thread.
In the context of what you wrote you are calling me
a "true bigot" because you know that I wrote the OP.
"Spoken like a true bigot" you said.
Is not you doing that a Rule Violation?

JAG


PS

Please apologize for calling me "a true bigot"?



``

 

You have no possible way of knowing that John's motivation
was based on "base instincts" and "vanity in this case."

Your "base instincts" and your "vanity in this case" is your
personal SPIN and nothing more than your personal SPIN.

Why do you desire to turn a Good thing into a Bad thing?

The OP paid John several compliments. The OP said
Good things about John. The OP is Good and Noble
and Heroic. Why do you desire to belittle that?

It is a Good and Noble thing to seek the praise of God and to
seek to please Him by doing good deeds.

It is a Good and Noble thing to desire to remember one's
good and noble deeds. {Your "base instincts" and your
"vanity in this case" is your personal SPIN and nothing more
than your personal SPIN.

It is a Good and Noble thing to desire others to remember one's
good and noble deeds.

This is why we have The Medal Of Honor awarded to hero's

This is why we have official ceremonies to honor hero's
who do Good and Noble deeds.

We rightly desire to remember and honor their Good and Noble
deeds and to have THEM also remember their Good and Noble
deeds. Are these Good and Noble ceremonies also
"base instincts" and "vanity" ?
________

There is zero comparison between my Good, Noble, and Heroic OP
and in "scammers."

Your "unpaid debts" seems to be illogical.
The Thais and Russian women would be looking for a man
that was as you described, but who debts were paid and not
"unpaid" --- because then there would be no outstanding
debt claims against the man's estate when he died. This means
that the Thais and Russian women would therefore not have to
pay the man's "unpaid debts" out of the proceeds of the man's
estate.

So why your "unpaid debts"?

JAG


``

 

Swensson,
Thank you for your response to my request.
And thank you for reading my post.
I appreciate you doing that.
_____

Swensson,
Say do you ever give any serious thought to the possibility
that you could be wrong about your Secular Humanism?

And that your being wrong might end up costing you the
loss of your soul for all Eternity?

Supposes the Lord Jesus was correct when He said , , ,
"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole
world, and lose his own soul?
Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my
words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also
shall the Son of Man be ashamed, when he cometh in the
glory of his Father with the holy angels." ___The Lord Jesus
in Mark 8:36-38
_____________

Do you think its possible that you could end up losing your
soul?

Do you ever give any serious thought to spiritual issues like
Faith, your Soul, Heaven, Eternity?

Suppose Christianity is actually true? And you persist in
your unbelief and at the end you discover that you have
locked yourself forever out of Eternal Life?

Suppose you end up being a member of a relatively tiny
minority of people that are excluded from Eternal Life?

Suppose God is actually working on the principle of
"Acceptable Losses" and that you will be among those
that are the acceptable losses?
What is "Acceptable losses"?
The New Testament clearly and boldly teaches that
there are only 2 categories of human beings:
John 3:16
{1} those that have Eternal Life
{2} those that perish and do ,NOT have Eternal Life {the acceptable losses}

Does not that give you even a moment's pause?

____________

Regardless of what is said you know for a fact that
God exists , , ,

The Apostle Paul said that you know there is a God
from looking at what God has created {Romans 1:18-20.}

Paul says that you "suppress the truth" about your
knowledge of God {Romans 1:18}

Paul says that the requirements of the law have been
"written on your heart." {Romans 2:15}

I say "you" because you are a part of humanity and what
Paul said was said about all of humanity.

What are you going to think if John 3:16 turns out to be
THE Truth Reality?
~ believe and get Eternal Life
~ refuse to believe and perish {the "acceptable losses"}

Suppose the world's some 5 billion Theists are correct?
And you are badly sadly mistaken?

___________

Swensson,
Here is what the New Testament clearly and emphatically teaches:

{1} God the Father sent His Son to bear the penalty for your sin on the Cross.

{2} If you will believe in Him and repent of your sins, then you will NEVER have
to personally pay for your sins --- Jesus paid it for you -- in your place. He took
your place, so to speak, on the Cross.

{3} If you refuse to believe in Jesus as your Savior, then you will personally have
to pay for your sins --- what John 3:16 says is to "perish." You will, in effect, have
to bear the punishment that Jesus bore for you on the Cross. Nobody knows exactly
what all that will be like --- but we CAN know that it "is not going to be good."

Does {1} , {2}, and {3} mean anything at all to you?

Best.

JAG


``

 

Have you asked them if they want to be remembered? You want to be remembered for your good deeds? Isn't that pride? I couldn't care less if no-one remembers any help I've given them. The real reward is the chance to see the results of the help.

How? Because the Bible says so?

The first requirement for any discussion is to understand your opponent's position. You simply don't understand Swennson or Secular Humanism at all. Sure, you may have read about it, but you haven't understood at all. That's why you keep on the same old tired out arguments time and again.