Question For John Atheist: Don't You Want To Remember Your Good Deeds Forever?

There is John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever believes
in Him shall not perish, but have Eternal Life"

There is also Durandal 3:16
"People are remembered or forgotten regardless of what they believed in life"

There is John 11:25-26
"Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me
will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die."
Do you believe this?” {and yes I JAG do believe this}

There is also Durandal 11:25-26
"and my wishful thinking that I can live forever just by believing some silly thing
that others tell me to believe will not alter reality.

There is Romans 5:1
"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus
Christ."

There is also Durandal 5:1
"Humans are mortal, like every other animal on earth, and it is our self-awareness
and our awareness of mortality that even makes religion so universally needed and
desired."

There is Ephesians 2:8
"For by grace are you saved through faith, and this not from yourselves -- it is the gift
of God -- not be good works so that no man can boast"

There is also Durandal 2:8
"Religion exists in part to comfort us mortal beings with pleasant
fantasies of not being mortal after all."

_________

I choose to believe the Bolded Red up there and not believe the bolded black.

In my view and in my world, it takes more Faith to believe the bolded black
than it does to believe the Bolded Red.

Also the bolded black offers nothing but ultimate Gloom, Doom, and Destruction
for the Human Person at Death --and therefore the bolded black is a Sad Song.

And a Sad Religion too.
By the way, in my world it IS a Religion and will remain a Religion until the
end of days. There is nothing that can be said that can un-do my belief that
the bolded black is, de facto, a Religion --- and a Sad Religion too.

And also a Sad Song that must be sung to the tune of Faith too --- since there
is not a shred of Empirical evidence that a single word in the bolded black is
the Truth.

Also the Bolded Red makes me want to "take heart" and to sing happy songs
because I know that the Bolded Red is true {I know this through supernatural
means regardless of what is said by way of pseudo-intellectualism to attempt
to discredit it}

Whereas the bolded black is enough to push the already clinically depressed
"over the edge" into The Land Of The Hopeless. Not good. Sad stuff. Bad.

________________

Just think about 2 Corinthians 8:9
"For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich,
yet for your sake he became poor, so that you through his poverty might
become rich"

Can you just imagine what 2 Durandal 8:9 would say?
It might say this?
Humans have the same identical ultimate destiny-End as do Cockroaches,
Rats, Yard Weeds, House Plants, and Mosquitoes, namely ceasing to exist
as in Oblivion. When a human dies they become 00000

Contrast
2 Corinthians 8:9
with what
2 Durandal 8:9
might say.


Best.

JAG

PS
Your religion is Very Sad.
The Religion Of Sadness.
Thanks but I will pass.
I go with the Bolded Red.


```


``

 

I don't have a religion. I have reality. This is something you refuse to see because you, as I have observed about the religious in general, have a deep personal need for your religious beliefs and will never walk away from them, no matter how unfounded and silly they are. You want false comforts of immortality more than you want the truth.

You can't handle the truth.

 

JAG Wrote:
"One thing we can be sure of:
There are no Secular Humanists that would object to this
being on the side of busses , , ,
"The Pope Is A Catholic"___signed Secular Humanism
, , , but they would strongly object to this being on the side of busses , ,
"Human Beings Ultimately = 00000"___signed Secular Humanism
You lose the point.
We both know it."___JAG

Swensson Replied:

Okay, we can contact some of Christendom's billionaires
and get them to pay for the advertising. I am convinced that
many of them would love to have that opportunity to "get the
truth out there" about the Sad Religion Of Secular Humanism
that does in fact teach that , , ,
Human Beings Ultimately = 00000"___signed Secular Humanism

"It doesn't seem like something that needs saying or advertising"___Swensson
Oh I disagree with that.
We need to "get the word out there" and let people know exactly what
Secular Humanism teaches about the Ultimate destiny-End of the Human Person.
So Let's Get the Truth Out There To The Whole World.
Collective Humanity might love it.
People love to be told that they have the same identical ultimate
destiny-End as do Rats, and Road Kills and Bugs and Yard Weeds.

Best.

JAG


``

 

In my world you DO have a Religion.
There is nothing you can say that will un-do my
absolute belief that you have a Religion and a
Sad Religion too.

Regardless of what is said you know for a fact that
God exists , , ,

The Apostle Paul said that you know there is a God
from looking at what God has created {Romans 1:18-20.}

Paul says that you "suppress the truth" about your
knowledge of God {Romans 1:18}

Paul says that the requirements of the law have been
"written on your heart." {Romans 2:15}

I say "you" because you are a part of humanity
and what Paul said, was said about all of humanity.

In my world you do NOT have Reality.
There is nothing that you can say that will un-do my
absolute belief that you do NOT have reality.

As YOU "have observed" -- but don't you see, your personal
observations are not any more than your personal observations.
I have zero confidence in your personal observations.

YOU issuing a personal proclamation saying they are "silly" does
not mean that they, in fact, are silly. It means nothing more than
YOU have proclaimed that they are silly.
There is no such thing as , , ,
The International Authority On What Is, Or Is Not, Silly.
And one man's "silly" is another man's "Seriously True."
Neither is there , ,
The International Authority On What Is, Or Is Not, Unfounded.
So we have your opinions stated here.

False.
Totally False too.
You do not know they are False comforts.
You can not prove they are False comforts.
My view is that YOU do not have the truth and do not know the Truth.
You can keep your Sad Religion and I will keep my Religion Of Hope.
John 11:25-26
"Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me
will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die."
Do you believe this?” {and yes I JAG do believe this}

False.
You can't handle the Truth.

Best.

JAG


``

 

America honors her hero's who do Good, Noble, and Heroic deeds.

This is why we have The Medal Of Honor awarded to hero's

This is why we have official ceremonies to honor hero's
who do Good, Noble and Heroic deeds.

We rightly desire to remember and honor their Good and Noble
and Heroic deeds and to have THEM also remember their Good
and Noble and Heroic deeds. Are these Good and Noble
ceremonies also "egocentric" and "narcissist" and
"self-aggrandizement" ?


{1} Will you answer those questions up there?

{2} Will you apologize for calling me a "true bigot"?

You know that I wrote the OP.
You say the OP was "spoken like a true bigot."
So you are discussing ME PERSONALLY rather than
discussing the OP.
You used ad hominem name-calling in this thread.
In the context of what you wrote you are calling me
a "true bigot" because you know that I wrote the OP.
"Spoken like a true bigot" you said.
Is not you doing that a Rule Violation?


Best.

JAG



``

 

Then let's get the word out that Christianity says you're going to Hell. I'm sure the public would love to hear that. Your posts get more ridiculous as you get more desperate. And you don't seem to realise there's a world outside yours.

Why don't you go out and tell people they will have the same ultimate destiny as your list. People like a good joke. They might even say that there is no proven alternative., Then it will be up to you to actually prove it. Most people have rejected the Bible so where do you turn then.

 

Human Beings Ultimately = 0

So get out there and enjoy the one life you have and ignore snake oil salesman who promise you another without any proof!

Stick that on yer bus and read it!

 

You need a good editor. Repetition is repetitious (I like that).
If Joe Hero does his heroing for the honors he will receive then he is a narcissistic self-aggrandizer.
Two sentences:
You are a true bigot.
Spoken like a true bigot.
Do you see the subtle difference?

 

You have zero confidence in anything but your own beliefs. The mark of a true bigot. (obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, and intolerant towards other people's beliefs and practices)

You complain of being called a bigot, yet you show it all the way through your posts. How can you complain?.

 

Please stop deliberately and willfully misdirecting so you can
escape the trap you set for yourself regarding America's hero's.

Please stop deliberately and willfully recasting the issue in an
incorrect way so you can escape the trap you set for yourself
with regard to America's hero's. This approach is dishonest and
deliberately misleading.

It is a dishonest and misleading approach to assume
that America's hero's are doing what you said about
"Joe Hero" --- you deliberately SPIN "Joe Hero" in
such as way that incorrectly puts America's hero's in
a bad light and creates suspicion in the minds of people
about "Joe Hero" in your effort to wiggle and SPIN your
way out of the trap you set for yourself in this thread.

America's hero's do their Good and Noble and Heroic deeds
for Good and Noble motives --- but you seek to put them in
a BAD and EVIL light -- so you can escape the trap you set
for yourself on this issue.

People reading the thread KNOW exactly what you are doing.

They may be on "your side" but they KNOW you trapped yourself
and they KNOW you are wiggling and spinning in order to keep
from having to admit that you were incorrect about America's
hero's and all this that I described down below -- and YOU , ,
KNOW it too.

America honors her hero's who do Good, Noble, and Heroic deeds.

This is why we have The Medal Of Honor awarded to hero's

This is why we have official ceremonies to honor hero's
who do Good, Noble and Heroic deeds.

We rightly desire to remember and honor their Good and Noble
and Heroic deeds and to have THEM also remember their Good
and Noble and Heroic deeds. Are these Good and Noble
ceremonies also "egocentric" and "narcissist" and
"self-aggrandizement" ?

Will you stop misdirecting and answer this question?
Are these Good and Noble ceremonies also "egocentric" and "narcissist"
and "self-aggrandizement"?

Or will you continue to try to SPIN your way out of the trap you set for
yourself by putting America's hero's in a Bad light by suggesting
that "Joe Hero" does his good deeds for "the honors he will receive"?

 

There is no "subtle" difference.
That is your wiggle and SPIN to try and get out of it.
You know that I wrote the OP.
You say the OP was "spoken like a true bigot."
Saying that in the context of JAG wrote the OP
is the same as calling JAG a "true bigot."
You used ad hominem name-calling in this thread.
In the context of what you wrote you are calling me
a "true bigot" because you know that I wrote the OP.
"Spoken like a true bigot" you said.
Is not you doing that a Rule Violation?

Will you apologize for calling me a "true bigot"?

JAG

 

Read what was said. NOTE THE 'IF' It is not stating the hero IS but IF he is. You're doing the misleading.

If Joe Hero does his heroing for the honors he will receive then he is a narcissistic self-aggrandizer.

 

@Swensson

@Swensson
It may seem "corny" {trite, banal, or mawkishly sentimental}
but today is Sunday and I'm hoping all is well with you and
that all will always be well with you, in the here and now,
and in the hereafter -- especially in the hereafter.

In the end, this , , ,

May the Lord bless you.
May the Lord bless and keep you.
May the Lord make His face to shine upon you.
May the Lord be Gracious unto you.
May the Lord always turn His face towards you.
May the Lord always give you peace.
May the Lord always protect you.
May the Lord always bless and protect all those you love.
{Based on Numbers 6:22-27}

, , , is all that will matter.
Remember JAG told you that.

Best.

JAG


``

 

Jag. Do you ever consider you may be wrong about your Christianity? No? Then why should you expect Swensson to doubt his Human Secularism. ?

All you do and say is your belief and won't even consider others may be right. You decry anything that does not conform to your ideas, yet you complain about being called a bigot. You deny facts that are proven without doubt - except in your own bigotted way of thinking.

Thought for you.

Bigotry ensnares the fenced mind
Contemptous views are there confined
Regarding itself superior at best
No other belief but itself to test.

Just as it is Error to think one way
Bigotry aims to dictate, sweep away
Whatever is against it, an opposition
It nullifies all diversity of opinion.

It's the mark of an intelligent mind, to see
Opposing thoughts that perhaps disagree
And yet to be open in its own perspective
Have the choice and will, which ones to receive.

Cynthia BuhainBaello

 

That doesn't seem to hold up to me. On the first page of this thread (source) you mention bugs plenty (by my count 41 times, excluding quotes) and lions none, in fact, I seem to recall the only reason you've mentioned it at all is because it was mentioned to you. Seems to me secular humanism doesn't relate to one over another, but JAG brings it all to bugs. You made lists before, and you sure didn't seem to remember lions until prompted.

In particular, I'm interested in this post, and ones like it:

Just don't leave out Bugs and Cockroaches and Pigs
and Mosquitos and Road Kills. (source)​

where you demand that certain animals are not left out, whereas your lists (I guess the most immediate one relating to the quote above is this) does leave lions out. You say you never forget lions, but in that list, you seem to have forgotten them (or deliberately left them out). It seems to me hypocritical to demand that certain things are included, when you yourself leave things out.

"How do I like it?"? In any particular respect? Certainly, it doesn't sound like it has any particular claim to truth.

 

But I'm not asking you whether we can keep lions on the list. I'm not asking what you're willing to add in hindsight. I'm asking how you can demand that one animal is included, when you were quite happy not to include another when you first made the list.

Both being true does not seem to me to imply that either or both tell "more" of the truth than each other. Either way, at the end of the day, you demand that bug isn't left out, but did leave lion out, and if "telling more of the truth" isn't the distinction, then I guess your choice to label Secular humanism by one and not the other was misleading.

Standing by them is not the hypocrisy I'm suggesting you commit. The standard you demand is to not leave out certain animals (bug), and your behaviour was to leave out certain animals (lion). I'm not talking about your ability to add it in hindsight or when prompted, but your willingness to construct your posts with them.

 

Wrong in what sense? Secular humanism is designed not to be reliant on a bunch of truth claims that can be wrong, but to be a reasonable response to the fact that it is unclear what the truth is. Secular humanism is not the claim that this is the moral truth about the universe, but that these are moral aspects that should be reasonable for people of conflicting religions to coexist by (that's what the "secular" part of the phrase means). The only claims it relies on is that religious claims have been unpersuasive, and we can't really be wrong about that, because it takes place in our heads.

It just so happens that secular humanism provides a decent framework for those who believe there are no higher morals, and those to whom higher morals are unknown, and those who believe in higher morals but who recognise that they need to coexist with others who think differently.

It's not any bigger problem to me than the promises/punishments of Mormonism or Islam or Nirvana or Viking mythology or African ancestor worship or the Nigerian prince is to you (or to me for that matter). This is known as Pascal's wager and it is well known, understood and rejected by, I daresay, most irreligious people.

Suppose away.

Suppose Norse mythology is right, and you're going to Hel, then what? My guess is that my answer to your question is going to be similar to your answer to the Hel question.

Besides, you mention 5 billion theists, but your examples are all Christian, which is of course only 2.4 billion. Add on the fact that those Christians disagree on what it means to follow Jesus. And to top it all off, people's religiosity doesn't really depend on what is true, but rather how they're brought up. Argument from number of people isn't about who is right, but about who is left.

Not in particular. As long as you haven't accounted for whether the New Testament is true (in particular, a verifiable reliable access to truth), it doesn't mean more to me than Spiderman or Bilbo Baggins.

 

Hope all is well with you too. Responding takes some time, though I think both one and two Sundays have come and gone.

 

The question is whether it needs getting out there more than other statements. Atheists have already made a decision on what is useful to put on a bus (I think busses is a weird advertising vector, but whatever floats your boat):
https://humanism.org.uk/campaigns/successful-campaigns/atheist-bus-campaign/

 

Yes, it seems to me a very strange idea that someone should be able to "get away" with false beliefs, just by talking about other subjects. Changing the subject is not a good method of reasoning.

I would agree, but it seems to me the ball is in your court. I have asked questions like whether it is hypocritical to demand that bugs are not excluded, when you yourself exclude lions. But instead of answering the question, you talk about whether you're willing to add lions. I think we could make some progress on this issue, and move onto others, if we could just answer the questions, instead of second guessing (incorrectly) the background.

 

Thank you I appreciate that.

I appreciate your responses and your posts and I appreciate
your time and your efforts.

""two Sundays have come and gone"___Swensson
, , , , , , , , , , "Time flies." , , , , , , , , , ,
You will soon be dead.
Me too.
Same for all who are say 50, and who "croak" at 90.
Wanna "hold forth" philosophical on the word "soon."?
There is nothing that can be said that will turn "soon" into "far off."
So?
So maybe its time to think about Eternal Life.
What about self-preservation?
What about a Plan to defeat Death?
I do not like the idea of you ceasing to exist.
Why waste a useful and interesting life?
That'd be not a good thing.
A tragic event, it would be.
Regarding such a tragic event , , , ,
I wrote the following to a thread-atheist and re-worked it and improved it
for your consideration in this post , , , ,

JAG Writes:
On your atheism, there will come a time when you never again will be able
to say "we atheists" because you will be forever removed from the
battlefield where this Ideological War is raging. Removed from life too.

The only possible way for you to win , , , you as an individual , , , is to have
access to a Plan {John 3:16} that actually defeats Death. You don't have one.
Death will eliminate you from the battlefield and from the War. Yet you love the
War and you love to participate in the War. You have been on the Internet for
years writing posts and enjoying your personal participation in all that is
"going on."

But this is going to end. Death will defeat you and defeat you permanently.
How does that make you feel? But your ideological enemies, the Christians,
will not be defeated by Death. The Lord Jesus said of His sheep, "I give
them Eternal Life and they shall never perish." John 10:28

But you're on the Losing Side. You will be permanently defeated by
Death and your voice forever silenced. Death will defeat you. Death
will stop your participation in life forever. Death will eliminate you.
On your Atheism, Death is your personal fierce aggressive Defeater.
You lose. Forever and ever and ever. Defeated. Beaten. Whipped.
____________
Swensson,
You may be thinking, Christians die too. True. But Eternal Life gives
our participation in this War between Good and Evil, eternal value.
Our participation and our contributions never die, but live on forever
in our consciousness and in the consciousness of untold billions of
the People Of God in Heavenly Realms who are living and have
never-ending on-going lives. In this sense even our good and
true thread-posts have never-ending eternal value.
___________
All the above harmonizes with the OP splendidly.
So I can ask Swensson, don't you want to remember your good
deeds forever? And to have them remembered forever by your
peers?
Intellectually, philosophically, rationally, and logically, having no
Plan to defeat Death is neither wise or smart.
____________
Faith based beliefs up there? Yes of course, but remember that
you too hold Faith based beliefs on these controversial philosophical
issues regarding right and wrong and values -- so you are a true
Man Of Faith too. You do not enjoy Empirical evidence that
demonstrates your beliefs to be true. You do not know that
Swensson has no soul that will never die.

The Lord Jesus said, "What shall it profit a man, if he gain the
whole world and lose his own soul." So there may be a soul
to be saved or to be lost. You have no Empiricism to help you
with this question. And your Empiricism is not going to
"be there for you" when your certain-coming "hour of need"
comes upon you -- that is, your Death Bed. You march
head-long into the Land Of The Unknown month after month.

You live your life based on Faith just like every other human being.

Best.

JAG


``

 

There were 6 of the Tolkien movies.
Three Lord Of The Rings and three Hobbits films.
How many of the 6 did you see?
Have you read The Lord Of The Rings novel?
__________

Do you enjoy the singing of , , ,
Luciano Pavarotti
Rolando Villazon
Anna Netrebko
Andrea Bocelli

_________

I dearly love all of that up there.
I have seen the 6 Tolkien movies more times than
you would believe.
I have a pretty sizable DVD collection of the 4 opera singers
and I love all 4 of them.

Add Sarah Brightman
Add the Vienna Philharmonic
Add Andre Reiu
Add Carmen Monarcha {one of Andre Reiu's singers}

JAG

`

 

I have lost interest in the bug-lion thingy. It has been beaten to
death and neither one of us is going to budge one fraction of an
inch off his position so there is no point in continuing with the
bug-lion thingy.

JAG

``

 

With respect to it being a bright cheerful up-lifting new
ending that made a major improvement on the story of
John Atheist, now become John Christian.

Aw, you could "enter into" the good spirit of the thing if you
really wanted to. I put the new and better ending of my story
down there at the bottom. Read it and rejoice in John
Atheist's "metamorphosis" into John Christian.

.JAG Writes:
~ Regarding John Atheist ~
~ Introductory Remarks ~
John Atheist,
You do desire to live a heroic life and to be remembered
for your good deeds, don't you? I think you do.
You have lived your life to help others, haven't you? Yes,
you most likely have.
You have lived by the Golden Rule that says do unto
others as you would have them do unto you, haven't
you? Yes, you probably have lived that way.
But on your atheism let us assume that you die and
cease to exist forever --- here is a short piece I wrote
about this atheistic cease-to-exist sadness.

A Monument To John Atheist
by JAG
Let us say that your risked your life to save 3000 people that
were stranded in a dangerous storm and in so doing you lost
a leg, but you were successful in rescuing them and the "powers
that be" gave you a medal for your heroic action and later a
grateful nation erected a statue of John Atheist and it stood
for 500 years.

That would matter to YOU in the short term, but not in the
long term. On your atheism there would come a time when
John Atheist ceased to exist -- and became this 00000

If John Atheist does Cease-To-Exist, then in the long
term it would not matter to YOU that you had acted
heroically to save the lives of other human beings.

If some humans remembered you for 5000 years it would
NOT matter to YOU because you Ceased-To-Exist and
had become this 00000.

So what point am I making? Answer: You need spiritual
tools to arrive at what really matters.
John 3:16
{1) believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and "perish"

John Atheist now has Eternal Life , , , ,

Here on this spiritual ground your heroic action would
matter for all Eternity. It would be FOREVER in your mind
that you had performed a noble heroic action that helped
other people at great cost to you. It would be known by untold
billions of human beings who were sharing Eternal Life with you.
It would matter to YOU and to THEM . . . FOREVER.

Now why on Earth, would that NOT appeal to you?
Why would you NOT desire to be known forever.
And remembered forever by large numbers of
people that YOU had personally helped by living a
noble heroic life?

Why does it not make you very sad to think that all
your past noble heroic acts will be reduced to 00000
and will never be remembered by you?

A new and better ending to the OP , , , ,

, , , , , good news , , , ,

John Atheist did actually became a believer in the Lord Jesus
as his personal Savior and John changed his name to John
Christian and joined a local Bible believing Christian church
and lived to the good old age of 98 and died and went to be
with his Lord Jesus for all Eternity and John remembered
his good, noble, and heroic deeds forever and ever, and so
did all the untold billions of Christians that were in Heaven
with John Christian.

JAG

``

 

The best I can do for you is to give you my personal
testimony that a consistent reading of the New Testament
will cast a huge enormous good influence over your
life and make a huge enormous contribution to your
long term spiritual well-being. Try it and see for yourself.
My guess is its packed with interesting stuff you have
never heard of before.
Spiderman and Bilbo Baggins does not make any claims
about your eternal destiny as does the New Testament.
And emphatic astounding claims too, the New Testament
does make about your soul's eternal destiny.
You ever read the following? , , , ,
"Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching.
My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make
our home with them."___The Lord Jesus {john 14:23}

JAG