Reality Of The True Believers

Discussion in 'Ethnic & Religious Conflicts' started by El Kabosh, Aug 4, 2016.

  1. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    That does not change the fact that ISIS's explosion onto the world is a direct result of the war in Iraq.
     
  2. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    I'm an American, too. And I lived with Muslims for seven months when I deployed to Iraq. And like every other group of people, some of them are bad and some of them are good. The Kurds (who are mostly Muslim) are especially good. They kept US troops in their areas very safe. People should be judged on an individual basis, not lumped into faceless blobs and collectively punished.

    How does my argument miss the boat?
     
  3. For Topical Use Only

    For Topical Use Only Well-Known Member

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    From the mouth drops the word 'aid', from the planes drop the bombs.
     
  4. For Topical Use Only

    For Topical Use Only Well-Known Member

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  5. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Donor

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    Only interested in what people interpret from the facts available and have no interest in your unsubstantiated beliefs. You're just another poorly informed racist.
     
  6. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Donor

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    |So were most Nazi's, Communists and Fascists. But if the leadership wants war the mindless followers will just go along with it.
     
  7. For Topical Use Only

    For Topical Use Only Well-Known Member

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    lol@your second sentence eating the first for lunch.
     
  8. Taxpayer

    Taxpayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As long as it's only words, it's not interference. When we fly food, medicine, or anything else of substance—we're interfering.



     
  9. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Donor

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    ISIS is a direct result of Obama pulling the troops from Iraq, despite military advice at the time.

    More people have died in Iraq since Obama became President and more Americans have died in America as a result of Islamic terrorism since Obama became President. Those who voted for Obama, through their naivety and ignorance of international security, have contributed to the deaths and political chaos we see around the world today. HRC, through her actions in the ME, as evidenced by her time in State, will continue his inept and treacherous legacy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    They're both true.
     
  10. MississippiMud

    MississippiMud Well-Known Member

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    I made no claim either way.

    If history teaches us anything it is nothing is certain. There will always be unintended consequences for any action OR inaction. Today's ally could very well be tomorrows enemy. This is even more true when you fight wars with proxies. We have gotten way to used to having 3rd parties do our dirty work. We are soft and afraid of the sacrifice AND the criticism that comes with war. War is not a game. Not something you do halfheartedly. You are either all in or stay out.
     
  11. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

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    Bush had already negotiated and signed the SOFA.
     
  12. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

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    13 US embassies were attacked in the Bush years and 60 people were killed.
     
  13. Eadora

    Eadora Well-Known Member

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    .
    True &
    You don't become a decent human being playing the Thug, the Goon or the Bully
    You don't become a morally based society by Exploiting and Abusing other people

    Such become, and are, Degenerate Wretchs, and repulsive Atavistic Throwbacks
    And as you not only admit to these faults, but glory in them we may Conclude

    So I sincerely Thank You GA - You make my Case ! :clapping:
    The Moral Corruption of the American Exceptionalist is here dissected and lain out
    Exposed, like the diseased carcass of a Reptile upon this table of Public Discourse

    And to get this Over RIPE Infection to burst, revealing the repulsive nature of
    American Imperialism - I simply had to poke it, at a distance, with a sharp stick - :mrgreen:


    I'll give you this.
    You do NOT suffer from 'Willful Ignorance' like so many here on the PF - rather U embrace it

    That said - I can heartily AGREE with you on this -
    If "you do nothing (to oppose such injustice as you so happily advocate ), you are a coward."
    ............................................ EVIL is after all the final expression of Cowardice

    ............................................ [​IMG]

    BTW - Found a great new Avatar for you Sweetie :wink: Check it Out :smile:
    ................................................................................It's called the Warmonger

    http://www.trickortreatstudios.com/...merican_Werewolf_London_Warmo nger_Front.png


    Then bust open some PopCorn and enjoy an Intermission

    [video=youtube;Dr4cDN0xx88]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr4cDN0xx88[/video]

    .
     
  14. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

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    Note that it was the fall of 2008.

     
  15. MAYTAG

    MAYTAG Active Member

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    Because you are arguing against bigotry, when the actual issue is an organized plot perpetrated by our government to isolate, empower, and provoke the ones who are violent radicals, which has little to do with Muslims being nice, moderate people, in general. Those types are supposedly being shipped out as refugees anyway, leaving virtually ONLY radicals behind to give weapons to as we help them topple another government that could have restrained them.

    How do you find it relevant to point out the sins of radical Islam's ally, the U.S. government, as a counter to the sins of radical Islam? Of course they are all evil and need to be stopped! That's not to say ALL Muslims or ALL government officials are evil. But the ones who are have worked together in a very public and blatant way to gain power and marginalize the good, decent ones!
     
  16. GeorgiaAmy

    GeorgiaAmy Well-Known Member

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    We are invested in our self interests above all else. We don't care what you think. If our actions offend you so much, do something about it.
    What's your country? Haha...
     
  17. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    General Franks, I believe, did address the pathetic operating conditions he found once he took care of Saddam Hussein.

    Despite all the whining over Brown and Root along with Halliburton, it took years of effort to get the fields up to commercial standards.
     
  18. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    What is your report on Bill Clinton's years as president? [MENTION=63572]Margot2[/MENTION]

    - - - Updated - - -

    Obama made a mistake in not reversing it. If not instantly, when ISIS became a problem.
     
  19. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, As far back as 1997 Saddam wanted the US to lift the sanctions so Halliburton could make repairs and update facilities because there was a risk of losing those reserves forever due to poor reserve mgmt. The cost was estimated at 20 billion dollars.. cheap compared to the war.

    The first bids in the fall of 2008 didn't attract and of the oil majors.. but recently Shell, Lukoil and BP are on board to increased production by 250,000 to 350,000 bpd.

    Remember when the neocons said that Iraqi oil would pay for the war?
     
  20. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    You could tell it would take a miracle for Obama to not fail.

    Some assume you may simply toss your hat in the ring, get elected as president, and just like that you become magnificent at the job.

    Face the Nation on Sunday August 14, 2016 had a decent presentation of the complex job of president.

    Google Face the nation if you want to watch the program.

    Anyway, Obama got a job that was way over his head. The fact he uses the crutch called the telemprompter and is out talking all the time gives some idea that he is not present for the real important stuff. How can he have traveled so much yet got the assistance needed from so many sources and be out on the road for the past 7.5 years. To manage the presidents job, Democrats used to tell us it could not be done from the Crawford. TX Ranch. But Obama has tried all of this on the road.

    The media gladly broadcasts where he travels to all the time, so it is no secret.
     
  21. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Are you actually arguing it was to be a good thing leaving Saddam in office? If you feel like that, why do you approve the Hillary / Obama ouster of Gaddafi?

    Since Obama took command, the ME is a flaming mess. It might be a mess for decades to come.

    By the way, the Neocons catch a lot of flack. While I am sure many in government felt the Iraqis could gratefully use oil to pay for the war, sadly that did not prove to be true.

    It made perfect sense at the time.

    We put the clamps down on Saddam long before Bush arrived in the job.
     
  22. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, The invasion of Iraq was purely stupid. Everyone in the ME knew that including Arabs, oilmen, historian and diplomats.

    The US didn't invade Libya or Egypt or Syria.. Do you not know the difference?
     
  23. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    I am one who I can't see a way I would have invaded Iraq, still get why Bush did. Bush believed in freedom. Not like you or I believe Margot. We never would fight for other people's freedom.

    I know that Obama messed up the ME. And it won't get fixed for a long time.
     
  24. Margot2

    Margot2 Well-Known Member

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    That's bullchit.. and Bush was plainly stupid. Iraq is not free now. You can't force freedom on people.. Remember when we forced the democratically elected Mossadeeg out in Iran, installed the Shah and created the SAVAK?

    Libya had an amazing Constitution under Idris.. which Gaddafi threw out in 1970.

    Where America's Democracy Went to Die


    In Iraq, Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi’s bold plan to revitalize a country ravaged by war may provide stability – or it could undo it all.


    Rubaye/AFP/Getty Images




    On the streets of Baghdad, and in other corners of Iraq where locals have endured almost unimaginable chaos and tragedy over the last decade, two popular phrases capture the complexities of modern life.


    "We used to have one Saddam Hussein, now we have a thousand," one saying goes. The other: "The patch is small, and the hole is big."


    The first adage helps personify what has become endemic corruption in Iraq, giving rise to massive protests against public officials' exploiting their positions to steal money and the government's failure to stop it. The second represents the inherent fear among Iraqis that no leader, particularly in the current government, possesses the vision to see beyond the country's existing problems and come up with a proactive solution in service of Iraq's future.


    http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...and-the-death-of-us-imposed-democracy-in-iraq
     
  25. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's because Obama pulled the troops in 2011 when the Iraqi people enjoyed a democracy. Obama even declared it to be 'stable'. Don't you recall the celebrations the Iraqi people had over their first free elections?
    In fact if people aren't free they'll leave for countries which are, just like people from the Middle East and other areas of the world have done. They move to the democracies, despite many Muslims wanting to destroy those democracies.
    That was a long while ago and has nothing to do with the ME of today, or the Muslim terrorism we see going on around the world.
    Islam, politics, and human rights has always been a bad mix.
     

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