Republicans and Trump supporters need to apologize to America

No, your Russian Collusion narrative is still a fake conspiracy theory.

Have you ever asked yourself why Manafort would turn over campaign polling data to a Russian oligarch? There is a pretty easy answer to this, but I've noticed no one on your conspiracy theory side has even tried to think of an answer. And that's surprising considering how good conspiracy theorists are at stringing together random BS.

So what's your theory?

 

"rent free" is rhetorical. The OP was sincere.

But, of course, you can't see the difference

 

How about spending a little less time concerning yourself with what other people need to do?

 

The OP is factually inaccurate. Start there.

 

We can debate that point until kingdom whatever, but what is irrefutable is the millions of people Trump has convinced that Biden was not legitimately elected due to 'Democrats rigging the election', and, in so doing , Trump has single handedly greatly diminished one of America's core values, that by undermining confidence in the electoral process, he has undermined democracy, and there can be no greater threat to US national security than that. Without a solid strong belief in America's Democracy, America is nothing.

Abso-****ing-lutely nothing.

That's for nothing, Donald Trump. If he is incarcerated tomorrow, it won't be soon enough.

 

Apparently you don't know the difference because I really do want to know why you are so obsessed with Trump. You make post after post, thread after thread about him. Even when he wasn't in the news for a few days. Why are you letting him live in your head rent free? That is NOT rhetorical. I really want to know. I'm a Trump supporter and yet I can go for days without even thinking about him. Yet you seem obsessed. Why? He's not even POTUS anymore. I can't even recall a single thread about Biden that you've started in the last month. Have you even started any threads about him in the last month? He IS the current POTUS after all. I'm not saying you haven't. I just haven't seen any.

And my "No" was sincere also. Much about what is said about Trump from the left is lies or exaggerations or things taken out of context. I see no reason to apologize for voting for him.

 

This is highly one sided. Do you really think Trump is solely responsible? He's not. Governors unilaterally changing voting rules greatly contributed to the doubt that many American's have about just how legitimate this last election was. They did not let the legislatures come to a decision, which is how election laws are supposed to change. Not be changed in a dictatorial fashion. Governors are just like President's. They are the executives of their respective states. Not the law makers. People saw this happening. People did not like it. In addition there is a TIMES piece that flat out admits that there was a cabal of people working behind the scenes to do everything that they could to make sure Trump was not re-elected. Including suppressing information and silencing pro-Trump voices and changing rules to prevent getting pro-Trump information out and anti-Biden information out. That does not exactly shore up The Peoples belief that this was a legitimate election. Whether you want to admit it or not.

 

I've always meant to ask you, but is English your first language?

 

You know damn well that on close races the race is won in the malleable center, independents, moderates on left and right of center.
So, campaigns like what Russia did, noting they spent millions doing it, can easily tip the scale in Trump's favor, noting that his win was 50k votes in 3 key swing states.

Trump stated his reason for firing Manafort was due to 'conflicts' but Trump is never honest about such things, so in my view, he fired Manafort because he became a veritable hot potato with all his Russian ties, which Trump was trying distance himself from, to confirm this, I point to the GOP House Intel report, which states:

https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/05/27/why-was-paul-manafort-fired

Then-campaign manager[Corey Lewandowski] testified that, when Manafort was hired, [redacted] made no attempt to vet him and was entirely unaware of Manafort’s past work in Ukraine.85 In May 2016, Manafort was promoted to campaign chairman and, after [Lewandowski] was fired the next month, “evolve[d]” into the role of de facto campaign manager.89

(U) Manafort left the campaign in August 2016 following news reports that he had received $12.7 million In secret payments for his work on behalf of Yanukovich’s Party of Regions; news reporting also alleged that Manafort and his aide Rick Gates had “directly orchestrated a covert Washington lobbying operation” on behalf of the party–while failing to register 90 as foreign agents. Campaign press secretary Hope Hicks recalled that, after receiving press inquiries about Manafort’s “professional history,” a major story broke91 on the evening of August 14, 2016. According to Hicks, “Trump had made a decision to make a change in leadership on the campaign outside of Paul’s issues that were being publicly reported,” but those issues “certainly contributed to expediting and intensifying the way in which his role changed, and then ultimately he was fired at the end of that week.”92 Trump directed his son-in-law Jared Kushner to ensure Manafort departed the campaign on August 19, which he did.93 As Kushner put it, ”[t]here was a lot of news that was out there and the decision was that it was time for him to resign.”

 

Oh please, this was illegal. 'Thing of value'. Proprietary voter demographic data is definitely a thing of value. Companies pay millions for that kind of information. You sound like Roy Cohn desparately trying to weasel the defense of Donald Trump in some sleezy enterprise.

 

Trump has single handedly undermined confidence in the American electoral process in the minds of many millions of people. In so doing, he has shot an arrow directly into the heart of one of America's core values: Democracy.

At no time in history, has confidence in elections been as low as it is now and this is directly due to Trump, declaring, long before the first ballot was ever cast, that 'The only way democrats can win is if they rig the election'.

No president in history ever did that let alone to the degree that Trump did it.

Also, no president in history has ever declared that 'The Press Is The Enemy Of the People", which undermines the first amendment, and is an extremely detrimental and injurous thing for a president to declare so openly on TV and to do it so often, because, in truth, much more than your arms, the most important thing standing between freedom and tyranny is a free and vigorous press, regardless of whether or not the press's reportage is to your liking.

Thank you, I'm happy with Biden, things have the sense of returning to normal, and I think that is a good thing. He came out and stressed America's backing of article 5 of NATO's founding treaty, which Trump resisted ( another first, every president since NATO was formed, backed it ) and now NATO and the western alliance feels very strong again. Trump was always looking at the world through a transactional lens, and you can't run a country like a business, there are far more dynamics and dimensions for a nation and the world of nations than would exist for a business that are necessary to understand, and Trump just didn't understand them. Trump reminded me of the famous quote by Oscar Wilde "A cynic is someone who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing".

https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...mp-declines-to-affirm-natos-article-5/528129/

 

A number of studies have been done to reveal that voter fraud, on a level that would alter the outcome of an election, doesn't exist, so no, not 'akin'.

 

You sure do not know how to frame a proper rebuttal.

 

Give me a CPA certified cash value; go on, give it your best shot. Mueller failed miserably at the Trump Towers meeting (though there was no information at all exchanged, although he tried hard to conjure some up), but maybe you are better than he. Hillary, on the other hand, is clear cut: the cash value is easily certified by the cash they actually paid -- the money laundering not withstanding.

 

There is a first time for everything, like coordinated counting stops and early morning vote dumps for Biden after counting allegedly stopped.

 

You said if it is not proven it still can exist. I surmise that applies there but not here in your mind.

 

Sensitive data? I doubt that.

 

Vacuous assertions are not a rebuttal. Try a little harder.

 

All of us on this forum are giving opinions, this is not a court.

 

It was as sensitive as internal polling data, yes, since internal polling data isn't even classified information. I've posted the link three times already, but I see you've blown by those. Let's try #4 and see if you have a legit response. These are based on actual emails.

#4:
https://justthenews.com/accountabil...lagged-spy-danger-trump-had-extensive-contact
""Thank you very much for looking into this and very sorry to ask," U.S. embassy official Alexander "Sasha" Kasanof wrote businessman Konstantin Kilimnik in a Dec. 6, 2015 email obtained by Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigators and reviewed by Just the News. "Ambassador very unhappy about the article, though agree it stinks to me to (sic) of people we know very well."

A few lines later, Kasanof's email offered Kilimnik some valuable inside skinny about the Obama administration's assessment of a sensitive meeting between indicted fugitive Ukrainian oligarch Dmitri Firtash's associate Yuriy Boyko and Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland. "I thought Boyko did quite well, in fact," Kasanof wrote. "Don't know that he convinced Nuland on everything (incl. DF intentions), but his performance was much less Soviet and better than I thought would be. So job well done!"

Kasanof was a US embassy official under Obama.

Another fact you liberals pretend not to see.

 

Your premise is flawed.

And I don't even think you know what you are talking about.

However, in the remote chance you actually believe you have some kind of point to make, then be specific and make it.

 

That Killimnik passed it to Russian Intel services wasn't confirmed until recently. It was only suspected before that.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/na...-manafort-friend-kilimnik-gave-trump-n1264371

 

Pot, meet Kettle.

 

No, it was in the Mueller Report the Manafort passed it to Kilimnik. No confirmation it was ever passed to Russia.

Also, see where Ibama passed Kilimnik sensitive info during his term.

I guess I’m going to have to wait forever for an objective response from you.

 

That isn't the issue, the issue is that Russia used it to benefit Trump, data which become a 'thing of value' from a foreign national ( or country ) to help a candidate in an election is illegal.

See, Manafort's act is not espionage, it's complicity in the violation of §30121. Contributions and donations by foreign nationals.
If Trump is aware of it, which it would be rather unbelievable that he would not be, then he is complicit, as well.

No DOJ is going to hang a President over a few things, it has to be lots and lots of big things.

Something like this should have been inquired about by Congress. That's about it.