Respect the Presidency!

How can anyone respect the Office when the current holder of said office doesn't even respect it?

 

I do not think you are an Obama supporter, but explain why I should respect a man simply because of his position?

Why should I respect an office if I don't respect the man holding it?

I keep asking you this and your only answer is just because you do.

 

That really is the problem isn't it?

Political Ideology has become for some people so polarized that they have lost perspective.

AboveAlpha

 

Your inability to seperate the OFFICE from the MAN is the problem here.

The MAN regardless of what you or I or anyone else thinks of him....HOLDS THE OFFICE OF PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!!

He was elected by the American People.

That fact ALONE deserves respect.

AboveAlpha

 

The two are linked, the man in office represents the office and the USA. He has shown no respect for either.

 

Bingo!

 

All right, let's separate the issues.

I have a problem with the man, and I have a problem with the office.

The man doesn't deserve any respect because he's violating the law left and right, he's abusing his office not respecting it.

The office doesn't deserve any respect because it's been perverted, bastardized, permuted into something it was never designed or intended to be. The President is not supposed to be a dictator, he's supposed to implement the laws that the Congress writes. If he's not doing a good job our Congress should defund him, not "take impeachment off the table".

This whole system of ours has become entirely screwed up. The People no longer have control over the purse strings, that's major problem number one. And, Congress has delegated away practically all of its meaningful authority to the Executive Branch, which is major problem number two. And, our current President and the two chumps before him seem to think they can take this country to war on a pretense or a whim, without the blessing of the People or the Congress, and that's major problem number three.

How can I respect a system that's completely out of control? Malfunctioning? Dysfunctional? Working in a way other than it was intended?

Under those circumstances, I'm not going to go looking for "respect", I'm going to go looking for my tool kit so I can fix the d*mn thing!

 

Well as an American Citizen you certainly have the right to attempt to FIX THE PROBLEMS.

Now I tend to vote Republican but there have been a few times I voted Independent and Democrat as I vote for the best possible candidate and not along Party Lines.

I did not vote for Obama but it nearly KILLED ME to vote for McCain and Palin...specifically because Palin was on the ticket and this was without a doubt the biggest mistake McCain has ever made.

Now I read what you and even though I don't agree with many things Obama has done I cannot say that anything Obama has done or implemented could be considered UNCONSTITUTIONAL or wrong.

He has implemented programs that might not fit within what I would agree with or do...but I certainly cannot say anything he has done is beyond what is legal or what has been done by any other President from either party.

One thing I DO agree with that Obama has implemented is NATIONAL HEALTHCARE.

The current National Healthcare Program that Obama implemented was first designed and created in MASSACHUSETTS where I live and Governor Romney brought in the best and brightest and our Republican Governor worked together along side a primarily Democratic Legislature and they looked AT ONE SIMPLE FACT.

This SIMPLE FACT IS.....since no person in the United States can be refused either Ambulance Service or Entry into an E.R.....because they don't have Insurance.....the State and Federal Government must reimburse Hospitals and Ambulance Companies for their losses from unpaid bills.

Thus THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF MONEY THE STATES AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PAID A YEAR TO REIMBURSE HOSPITALS AND AMBULANCE SERVICES FOR UNPAID BILLS..........IS MUCH LESS MONEY THAN IT COSTS FOR NATIONAL HEALTHCARE.

It's that simple.

Anyways....although I agree with Obama on this point there are many...many other issues I completely disagree with him upon.

Still there is nothing I could state being as some law or program that Obama implemented that would be considered the actions of a DICTATOR as you put it.

I might not agree with Obama's ideology....but that doesn't mean I don't respect the Presidency.

AboveAlpha

 

Exactly. We agree. I've been saying all along that the ACA had nothing to do with healthcare and everything to do with money. And specifically federal money, because when the ACA was passed the only people in this country having a problem with healthcare was the government.

Anyway, that should take care of the "man" part, Obama has been a stone cold liar when it comes to all matters healthcare.

You said "un-Constitutional", and I could write you a whole long list right off the top of my head, of "un-Constitutional" stuff this president has done. Starting with a private insurance mandate, which is clearly and obviously un-Constitutional in spite of what our Supreme Morons have to say about it.

We could talk about many issues related to War Powers, and then we'd be right back talking about dysfunctional systems and the delegating away of essential checks and balances.

Changing the healthcare law without Congressional action is definitely the behavior of a dictator. Issuing green cards to illegal immigrants in violation of the present federal immigration laws is entirely un-Constitutional, the fool should be impeached for it. This President has stated several times that he believes he has the authority to take this nation to war with or without Congressional approval, and that is completely un-Constitutional and not even a liberal would argue with me on that one.

This system is decrepit, it's been mangled and abused out of countenance. There's nothing to respect anymore, except the willingness of the American People to fix it. If that doesn't exist, then there's absolutely nothing to respect. Our votes are being stolen from us by money, we have a bunch of grade-A USDA Prime idiots sitting on our Supreme Court, and both political parties have become nothing more than financing arms for corporations and wealthy donors.

The system is completely screwed up, and that's why we're getting the results we're getting.

 

I MADE A MISTAKE!!!

I should have typed MUCH MORE MONEY THAN IT COSTS FOR NATIONAL HEALTHCARE.

AboveAlpha

 

Heh heh - backpedaling are we? (That's okay, I understand, j/k).

Yeah, but word - this system is screwed up. It's really really messed up right now.

The people who are doing this are either a. completely ignorant of the design of the political system in our Constitution, or b. deliberately trying to destroy it.

There's no middle ground, what else could it possibly be? I've traced this through history, and there is one period between 1860 and 1890 that I can clearly identify as the origin of many of our legal issues. And, financial issues. In 1864 you had the National Currency Act (banks can accept promissory notes as collateral), then in the 1870's there were the Slaughterhouse Cases and in the 80's it was Santa Clara v Southern Pacific and all that.

Viewed from that perspective, the delegation of all powers to the Executive Branch is the last straw, it's the death knell as long as our Supreme Idiots aren't willing to do anything about it. Now those "authorities" in the Executive Branch can do pretty much whatever they want, and if anyone complains they can just say "national security" knowing full well that the Court will neither inspect nor intrude.

 

Not backpeddling.

I just made a mistake in my typing out that sentense.

The amount of money that Massachusetts....the first state in the Nation to have Universal Healthcare....as we implemented Romney Care.....the amount of money we saved when Universal Healthcare was implemented was ASTOUNDING!!!

Over $170 Million in the first quarter alone....and our savings kept growing every quarter.

I am WEALTHY and my Insurance payments WENT DOWN!!!

The sad thing is the ONE TRULY GREAT THING ROMNEY DID....implementing Universal Healthcare in Massachusetts.....ROMNEY BACKED AWAY FROM AND DID NOT TALK ENOUGH ABOUT IT DURING THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS!!!

Romney Care was designed to work by the very best experts in the fields of Insurance, State Budget Designers, Legal, Doctors, Nurses and Hospitals, Pharmacies and Drug Companies....etc.

It works extremely well.

But it must be implemented AS IT WAS DESIGNED!!!

This was a problem at first but this problem was fixed as before Romney Care was implemented upon a National Level....every Congressman and Senator that had in the past discussed Universal Healthcare....WANTED A SAY IN HOW THE PLAN WORKED AND WHAT THE PLAN DETAILED!!!

Romney Care will not work that way.

It can only work if it is implemented EXACTLY as it was designed and we KNOW it works because Massachusetts saved BILLIONS OF DOLLARS implementing Romney Care.

Now it will work on a National Level AS LONG AS WE KEEP PEOPLE FROM CHANGING IT!!!

AboveAlpha

 

I would like to say that there does not exist another member on this Forum who worries and is so directly effected by EXECUTIVE BRANCH ORDERS carried out specific to NATIONAL SECURITY.

And I would also like to say that in the past as is happening presently many U.S. Presidents have used PRESIDENTIAL NATIONAL SECURITY ORDERS to get things done that they felt if brought to Congress would waste too much time or perhaps compromise certain actions and missions that were either on going or needed to be done.

Now this is a DOUBLE EDGED SWORD....because although it is a fact many times a President can't wait for Congress to make a decision upon an action necessary to protect the American People....it is also a fact that the ability of a U.S. President to give such ORDERS can be and have been abused in the past and present.

Still....if a person who is informed upon what is really going on in the world such as myself....weighs the possibility of ABUSE....against the possibility that delay could not only cost American Lives but as well cause damage to our National Security.....the scale is going to tip FOR allowing a President to give such orders.

I know this is not something people like to hear....but it is still a fact none the less.

AboveAlpha

 

0bama forbid!

Also, lulz @ "free and democratic system."

 

As I stated I did not vote for Obama but as far as this whole thing about Obama not being an American Citizen...I mean....COME ON!!!

I am a Fiscally Conservative Socially Liberal Moderate who supports the original GOP Ideology of a Government that help create the environment that allows BUSINESS CREATION AND GROWTH....for all size businesses which in turn creates JOB GROWTH.

I am completely against making Government Larger and especially hate the concept of GOVERNMENT JOB CREATION FOR THE PURPOSE OF CREATING JOBS!!

This concept is IDIOTIC and only wastes money.

And I am diametrically opposite to much of President Obama's Ideology upon this.

But at the same time it makes me CRINGE....when I see and listen to members of the Republican Party saying Obama is not a U.S. Citizen as such accusations are without merit....have been completely disproven....and anytime some Republican says this it just makes other Republican's LOOK LIKE BIGOTTED MORONS!!

AboveAlpha

 

Right, and if those Orders were just about national security, no one would complain. But they're not, they're about giving green cards to illegal aliens in direct contravention of 8 USC 12 as well as the President's oath of office.

The issue we're talking about is "scope", it's the scope of powers. I would argue that the Schedules are completely and entirely un-Constitutional, as is the monopoly granted to doctors on pharmaceutical dispensation. That's "scope". There is nothing anywhere in our Constitution that gives the federal government the authority to muck with anything I put in my body - unless they can show a clear and present danger to self and/or others and/or society, which they've completely failed to do in cases like marijuana, which is currently a Schedule 1 substance. The entirety of the drug laws in this country, and the operational structure of the pharmaceutical industry, is based on an un-Constitutional power grab on the part of our federal government.

(If this weren't true, why did Prohibition require a Constitutional Amendment on the way in and on the way out?)

The federal government is abusing its powers, its overstepping its charters and that causes problems because it results in the stripping of civil and political rights from its citizens. Which is the very reason FedGov exists in the first place - to guarantee those rights! Not to strip them away on the basis of the business needs of a few individuals or corporations.

And the President is the culprit (not the man, but the office) - the President is the one who has gained at the expense of both of the other branches. It's making him arrogant, and it's making the job too big for any one human being.

What I would like to see more than anything is Congress reclaiming the Power of the Purse on behalf of the People of the United States. But that's as much of a pipe dream as immigration reform, it just isn't going to happen in today's polarized political environment. So, we limp boldly forward with a gimpy and dysfunctional political system, hoping that we have enough capital (political and otherwise) in the bank to deal with whatever comes. Talk about a Hail Mary....

 

Why cringe? Laugh at those who make such claims. Enjoy the comedy they wittingly or unwittingly generate.

 

It took me about 30 seconds on a computer to make my own determination about the documentation.

I'm not going to begrudge anyone their determination to demand that the letter of the US law be followed and obeyed. So, if they feel they need a court to look at the documents and make a determination, then let them do that.

What I do find amusing are the actions of the hangers-on and the people who think they can profit from all this. People like Orly Taitz - now there's a real character! She's very amusing! (If you don't have to put up with too much of her abrasiveness or body odor during the day).

 

Why does that deserve respect?

Regardless of what I think of him I should respect him?

That doesn't even make sense!

 

Agreed. Barack Obama is the Liar-in-Chief. He's a much bigger liar than George W Bush, and that says a lot.

 

you talking about Bush, the guy who told us there was no warrentless wiretaps, then latter had to admit he lied

 

Feds to spend $9 million to provide attorneys to illegal border children

- - - Updated - - -

I never heard about that......link to a recognized news source please.

 

we did not get Obama's plan, his plan was the public option, we got Congress Care.. why?

"Obama, GOP's Snowe work on health care compromise"

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/02/health.care.compromise/

"The compromise plan would lack a government-run public health insurance option favored by Obama, but would leave the door open to adding that provision down the road under an idea proposed by Snowe, the sources said."