The beginning of a Secession Movement is the best news to come down the pike since the British surrendered at Yorktown. Now many states want to secede from U.S. Movement started day after election spreading like wildfire Published: 20 hours ago by DREW ZAHN http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/now-many-states-want-to-secede-from-u-s/ Separating the parasites from the producers is the first scenario that comes to mind. (Ann Coulter calls them the makers and the takers.) Separation in America should not be confused with Indias partition in 1947. Partition was the only way to rein in the religious hatreds and violence that existed between Muslims and the Hindu majority. Nor should it be confused with the differences between the Union and the Confederate States that ended in a bloody Civil War. Today, separation can be accomplished peacefully because it is purely political rather than religious, racial, or along geographical lines. Americans who want to return to the limited government, property Rights, and individual freedoms the Founders codified in the Constitution and in the Original Bill of Rights can move to a state that secedes, while Socialists can live in those states that advocate omnipotent government and collectivism. Everybody gets what they want. Socialists get even more because they can finally establish their utopia by working for one another leaving the rest of us to fend for ourselves as did early Americans. Philosophically separation is on the side of the secessionists: The Founders distrusted powerful central government to begin with; so its safe to say they would despise todays federal government much like Dr. Frankenstein hated the monster. Also, an honest look at the morals advocated and practiced by the people running the federal government shows that secession is right in line with Arnold Toynbees observation: Toynbee does not say how many of those 19 civilizations died violent deaths. The collapse of Americas civilization need not be violent. Many Americans already believe the federal government is not worth fighting for or saving. Peaceful secession could make the score 20 out 23 and no harm done. Is the framework for peaceful secession already in place? Answer: There are two schools of thought on that question. The answer is no if you agree with the Norths victory in the Civil War. The answer is yes just as it was yes before the start of the War Between the States. Parenthetically, all of the recent crapola put out about Lincoln the Magnificent appears to be aimed at heading off the Secession Movement. In truth: The Inalienable Right To Secede by Scott Lazarowitz http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/lazarowitz2.1.1.html I have to give Lincoln one passing grade he had no use for bankers. Yet his War on Independence did more to empower todays bankers than did the actions of any other president. His war ended in the Federal Reserve System. See this video: [video=youtube;lu_VqX6J93k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lu_VqX6J93k[/video] Lets jump ahead and say that a number of states secede peacefully. The Monroe Doctrine would still apply. Seceding Americans would not want to defend the form of government practiced in the states they seceded from any more than they want to defend communism at home or abroad as the federal government now does. So the first thing they must do is agree to defend the continent. Thats assuming the Socialist states want to cooperate in defending territorial integrity. Socialists have never shown a willingness to defend the U.S. of A. against the International community, but they might change their minds when they are out there all by themselves. China and Russia would be held at bay during the transition period knowing that every state and the current military would still defend the Americas current territory. Setting up a military structure for the purpose of self-defense should not present a problem. Unlike the War Between the States where all of the manufacturing was in the North, much of the machinery is already located in seceding states. Essential industries located abroad can quickly be returned. Serendipitously, secession automatically wipes out membership in the United Nations. Id go so far as to suggest following up by criminalizing binding membership in International organizations. To no ones surprise, those people who say American states have no Right to secede from their federal government are the same people who claim nations have no Right to secede from the United Nations. Basically, the prohibition refers to smaller nations because I doubt if anyone can stop China, Russia, India, and a few others from seceding if they so choose. Language Establishing English as the state language would be next. That would help insure that North America does not degenerate in a bunch of warring states speaking different languages like Europe. The Constitution The next thing seceding states must do is update the original Constitution and Bill of Rights along the lines the Founders laid out. All of the avenues that led to the welfare state, along with the creation and growth of a parasite class, can be closed off quite easily simply by defining necessary government. If it aint necessary it does not get a penny from the public treasury. The beauty there is that politicians cannot buy votes with tax dollars as Democrats have been doing since the FDR years. It goes without saying that a tax on income will also be eliminated constitutionally for all time. Citizenship American citizens would have five years to establish citizenship in a seceding state. At the end of five years dual citizenship would not be honored in any way. Primarily, citizenship would be established to protect property Rights, employment, legal Rights, and insuring that only citizens are issued passports for travel outside the original 50 states. Travel between states that seceded and those states that chose collectivism should not require travel papers. Finally, I offered a few thoughts for speculation purposes. No doubt there is a lot more that has to be worked out if the Secession Movement succeeds, but like the man said: [video=youtube;ZTU7whvTmHM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTU7whvTmHM&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
This better not happen: Petitions to secede are filed for 23 states since election By Valerie Richardson-The Washington Times Monday, November 12, 2012 http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/nov/12/petitions-to-secede-are-filed-for-23-states-since-/ Secession is one thing, a national constitutional convention is something else. There is no doubt the government would be strengthened by a constitutional convention while individual liberties would be diminished or eliminated altogether. In all probabilities the majority of the people charged with the task would come from academe. Those people are the most ravenous parasites of all. A few might come from the business community, others from the legal profession. Not a one of them can think about anything except how to increase taxes and government powers. Put it this way. What would the US Constitution and Bill of Rights be had they been written by today’s tax dollar parasites? If nothing else, you’d be hard put finding one American in today’s ruling class, in academe, in government, or in business with the character, intellect, and love of liberty the founders had in abundance. For instance, do you really want somebody from Harvard like Elena Kagan tampering with the Constitution? Those people have less character than concentration-camp guards. The late William F. Buckley, Jr. Nailed them pretty good: [video=youtube;sN_h9bWZuuk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN_h9bWZuuk[/video]
This is great news. But I wonder, why petition the White House? Where is it written that the President decides who can secede?
To fifthofnovember: He doesn’t. Petitions to secede have no legal basis, but they do represent the first step in the Secession Movement. The real test comes if and when governors and their state legislatures actually secede. They will have to do it without permission from the federal government. No Congress or president will agree to it. The trick is for enough states to secede in order to prevent the federal government from starting another War Between the States. Americans, including those serving in the military, will then have to decide which side they fight for. Unlike the first War Between the States the next one will come down to a war between the parasites and the producers. Every poll I have seen indicates a majority of Americans oppose the parasites; i.e., the federal government. That and nothing else should keep the federal government from warring against the American people. The federal government has no burning moral issue like slavery to rely on. This time, the people who oppose the federal government with secession hold the moral high ground because they will be fighting to save and RESTORE their own individual liberties. Should the peaceful Secession Movement become a revolution remember this. All revolutions come from the middle class, and then only when something has been taken away from them. The poor do not have the organizational skills necessary to foment successful revolution. The rich have no reason to revolt. In short: People never start a revolution to get something. They always revolt to get something back.
Secession was banned by the US Supreme Court in Texas v White 1869 ~ end of the story. The fact that some malcontent Republicans sign anything like that shows their treason and hate for America. It proves that we patriots were correct all along in saying they are this way.
To Mr_Truth: Is that the same Supreme Court that just increased the size of the parasite class by untold millions? I can’t cite the case, but I’m pretty sure the Supreme Court also banned violent revolution. To Mr_Truth: I don’t know about Republicans, but conservatives would defend America’s sovereignty to the death, while the people you support betray this country every day. To Mr_Truth: How patriotic will parasites be after their snouts are jerked out of the public feed tub. My guess is they will begin agitating for violent revolution —— meaning a return to their spot at the public trough. CLICK ON PICTURE TO ENLARGE
NO States want to secede, only a handful of morons want to tear the Nation apart, guess what folks, that does Not make you a Patriot, it makes you a TRAITOR. Anyone that signs the moronic petition should be investigated and if they prove to be a real danger to the Nation they should be locked up and forgotten. I did not serve this Nation so some sore lossers could tear it apart, if need be I will pick up my guns and defend it with whatever force is needed as will the majority of Real Americans.
To Casper: You’re a sick man if you think defending totalitarian government and the parasite class is defending the nation. To Casper: Did you ever stop and think you might not have any guns to pick up if the people you love so much succeed in eliminating the Second Amendment. Or are you saying that only people like you should have guns? Incidentally, if all of you “Real Americans” each take care of one parasite out of your own pockets there would be no need for the Secession Movement. I don’t mean one parasite taking care of another parasite with tax dollars.
No states want to secede. A few thousand people out of hundreds of millions are acting like big babies because their horrible ideology lost an election and shook their pathetic world view to the core. They're just a bunch of anti-American wankers akin to the whiny petulant children who upend a board game when they see that they can't win. They were warned and instead were preened by their corporate-backed media into thinking that everyone thinks the way they do. Instead they find that their voter base is shrinking to the point that... GASP! They're going to have to stop pissing off everyone if they want to remain a viable option.
Spoken like someone that has never served this Nation, bravely spoken, I would not suggest it person to person. The Dems are not going to take my or your guns, one of these days you will figure out you are being Played, or maybe not. You mean like taking my tax dollars and sending them to Israel or other Nations that are not our friends? You mean like spending my tax dollars to line the pockets of corporations that off-shore American jobs? You mean like spending my money on paying for massive military wasteful spending? Parasites like that? Yes I want it stopped, but the difference between us I know that the government we elected will descide what the revenue will be spent on and we do not get to pick and chose which we want our specific tax dollars to go to. Real Americans do not want to tear the Nation apart because they did not get their way, but Traitors do.
So on the one hand we have the Supreme Court from 1869, and on the other hand we have President Thomas Jefferson. “...If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation....to a continuance in the union....I have no hesitation in saying, 'let us separate'...” I have no doubt which one of the two best represents America, and which one I support. You, sir, are no patriot.
To Longshot: LOL. The surprise is on par with King George telling the Colonists to “Stuff it.” From everything I’ve read about the Secession Movement so far the only thing “King George” has going for him is the threat of another Civil War. Frankly, it’s a hollow threat; more so if the Secession Movement turns into a revolution. Then it won’t be a conflict between the federal government and state governments. It will be a conflict between the government and the people which is exactly what the real King George faced. Two things are giving me a great deal of pleasure: 1. The parasite class is sweating profusely over the prospect of losing their meal tickets —— the producers. The thought of separating the states (by secession or by revolution) into Socialist paradises and states where individual liberties govern has parasites crapping in their britches. 2. Parasites never saw a Communist revolution they did not support. The thought of a successful revolution against communism frightens them more than does the thought of a nuclear holocaust.
Unfortunately, the Secession Movement might be a century too late. Judge Napolitano identifies the villains:
Maybe, maybe not. But we can all agree on one thing for sure. America is in steep decline. It's going to get worse as well educated baby boomers are replaced by a new poorly educated cohort. But that poorly educated cohort is going to have to pay the Social Security and Medicare expenses of the baby boomers. That will be a crushing burden.
The American people can be broken by declining living standards. The idea isn't to secede. Rather, it makes more sense to poison the entire body politic.
I used Jack Jones at the end of the OP to say what Alan Keyes says better in his first sentence: The beginning is more than half the whole, the ancient philosopher famously said. Mr. Keyes clarifies the Secession Movement for anyone who is interested in knowing where it might go. As to those petitions signifying a beginning: After reading what Keyes had to say, I’m left with three choices; civil war, revolution, or secession with congressional approval. I do not consider a national constitutional convention a choice for the reasons I stated in #2 permalink. Asking 'permission' of Obama to secede? Exclusive: Alan Keyes looks at Constitution in light of popular petition drive Published: 7 hours ago by ALAN KEYES The beginning is more than half the whole, the ancient philosopher famously said. The ongoing failure of America’s free institutions is especially due to the failure, in this generation, to understand and perpetuate the faith of the founding. The success American liberty has achieved from that time to this owes much to the fact that the outstanding leaders of the founding generation were willing to articulate the reasonable faith that characterized what they called the “genius” of the American people. So in our time it is the apostasy of America’s elites, and their willful disrespect for, and rejection of, the reasonable, decent moral understanding of the people, that engenders and deliberately promotes the failure of liberty. The foundational premise of that understanding is the self-evident truth that the Creator God endowed each and every human being with rights, inherent in the nature of humanity, that human government exists to secure. A necessary corollary of that understanding is the right of the people to alter or abolish government institutions that abandon this purpose of government, abusively violating the rights just government power exists to defend. In the aftermath of the recent election, a new secessionist movement has surfaced in which citizens are “posting petitions on the White House site requesting permission to peacefully secede from the union.” This week a WND article about this movement referenced an article that cited “a 2006 letter purporting to be from Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia that said: ‘There is no right to secede. (Hence, in the Pledge of Allegiance, “one Nation, indivisible.”’” If accurate, Scalia’s quotation of words from the Pledge differs significantly from the official text, as set in the U.S. Code at 4 USC 4. The official text reads “one Nation under God, indivisible …” The omission in the purported Scalia letter reflects the understanding of right characteristic of America’s apostate elitists, for whom right and law are ultimately a matter of strictly human contest and decision. In light of the elitists’ abandonment of the principles of government articulated in the American Declaration of Independence, Scalia’s purported denial of any right to secede is logical enough. But only so long as we recognize that it is not the logic of liberty or constitutional self-government that he follows. It is the logic of arbitrary human will with no warrant of right except a contest of wills that is tragically inclined to end in civil war. What’s interesting, though, is that the petitions that are currently the focus of media attention do not assert secession as a matter of right. They seek permission to secede, albeit from an authority (the executive branch of the U.S. government) the Constitution in no way explicitly empowers to grant such permission. As far as implied powers are concerned, the U.S. Constitution provides that new States “may be admitted by Congress into this Union. …” Any implied constitutional power to permit the whole or partial dissolution of the Union would therefore most logically belong to the legislative branch. Any petition for permission to secede from it would have to be presented to the U.S. Congress, following procedures properly adopted into law by its legislative power. Even this is problematic, however, since the authority to enlarge the Union does not in and of itself imply any authority wholly or partially to permit its dissolution. Be that as it may, there is certainly no constitutional or logical warrant for the notion that the executive branch has the authority to permit the dissolution of the Union, except by dereliction of duty. None of this thinking, however, goes to the heart of the matter. The U.S. Constitution’s Ninth Amendment clearly states that “the enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.” Whatever explicit constitutional warrant may or may not exist to permit the dissolution of the Union, the unalienable right and duty “to alter or abolish” government that evinces a design systematically to trample God-endowed right must be among the rights retained by the people. Otherwise, as they follow the law He has written upon their hearts, people would have no warrant from God to defend their exercise of right against abusers of government power who seek by force to suppress it. Every exercise of unalienable right involves and implies this appeal to the authority of God. It makes sense that in denying the right of secession, the purported letter from Justice Scalia omits the Pledge’s reference to God. By the same token, however, the true right of secession can only be recognized and properly implemented in the context of God-endowed right, and for the sake of fulfilling our primordial natural obligation to respect the will of our Creator. The permission to secede from a Union that no longer respects this obligation is properly sought from God, not the abusive human powers determined to violate His will. But though it can be right to make this appeal to Heaven, the law of love by which God ultimately governs His creation commands us to make absolutely sure that it is necessary to do so. Many Americans cannot find the courage to secede from a sham party system that has systematically and repeatedly thwarted their right to representation. I find it hard to believe that such timid souls are now seriously disposed to assert the right to secede from the Union. Perhaps that is why their move to secede takes the form of supine, inappropriate supplication to an executive who represents the very forces seeking to overthrow the liberty of the American people. Rest assured; Barack Obama will seriously entertain their petitions only if and when by doing so he serves that liberty-destroying agenda. As I suggest in a recent article at Loyal to Liberty, I think it better serves the cause of decent liberty to consult the wisdom of America’s founders. Among the relicts of their faithful example there is a disused banner that might be raised in an effort to preserve liberty by restoring the true character of the Union, instead of destroying it. But this uplifting effort will require the concerted political will of people ready boldly to reassert the faith of the founders, as well as the form of government which respects the character that faith makes possible. http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/asking-permission-of-obama-to-secede/
You follow the line of logic that any state needs permission to secede. If states secede, they throw the robes of federalism off as well; they are refusing to follow the pack, so to speak. If they truly secede, it means they are not asking, they are doing a John Galt. It could be that by sending those petitions to Prez announcing their intent is to secede, they may be trying a peaceful solution to the action. I wonder how many states are ready for what follows. I side with reduction of federal authority, but realize the need for protecting continental borders. I would rather see Washington pushed back to the 36 square miles it has title to and start doing the job it was intended to do which was to guard this country's borders, not rule it as conquerers.
To Casper: I never minded anyone disagreeing with me, but I resent stupid people trying to be clever in my threads. Should you ever figure it out tell Hussein: Obama puts gun rights in crosshairs Lawmaker: Ability to keep and bear arms 'under attack' Published: 12 hours ago http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/obama-puts-gun-rights-in-crosshairs/ Based on you statement it is fair to say you don’t know what you are talking about. This article should introduce you to the topic of United Nations gun controls. Should you read the article you will see that Ms. Neubauer was right on the money: To Casper: Now that’s a foundation for agreement. Let’s start by withdrawing from the United Nations (The World Bank & the International Monetary Fund; two UN agencies). To Casper: Real Americans despise totalitarian government while your kind make excuses for it. I assume you never heard this: For your edification it means liberty from oppressive government which is what the Secession Movement is trying to accomplish. To Casper: Objecting to the opinions of government-loving ass-kissers does not qualify as treason.
One more time, President Obama is not goig to take your guns awat and has done nothing to even indicate he would. You do know that UN Treaties do Not override US laws or the Consititution don't ya, somehow I doubt you do. FYI: I am no big fan of the UN, so you are barking up the wrong tree. You are still free, so stop your whinning about Liberty, now if you and others start a real shooting revolution then the Death part will probably be arranged, be careful what you wish for you just might get it. Object away with those you hate, so long as you keep to talk and legal ways you are free to whine away all you want.
To Casper: I’ve shown that he will. Where is your foundation that he will uphold the Second Amendment? To Casper: Treaties become the law of the land. Democrats and the Supreme Court have successfully demonstrated a total disregard for the Constitution; most certainly for the constitutional Rights of private sector Americans. That is one of the reasons Hussein & Company are pushing so hard to ratify UN treaties. You’re ill-equipped to counter the overwhelming evidence supporting my argument. So avoid embarrassing yourself by trying. To Casper: Oh really! I hear you saying ratify UN treaties —— the Constitution will kick in if there is something wrong. To Casper: Not as free as I used to be. To Casper: Starting with your first response you indicated you are the one straining at the bit to pick up your guns. I, on the hand, advocate peaceful secession. To Casper: Take your own advice. The Czar’s government had a lot more power than our federal government has, yet the Communists overthrew the Czar. Freedom-loving Americans have a lot more reasons to fight for the freedoms they are losing, and a helluva lot more guns than the Communists ever had in Czarist Russia. That should tell you two things: 1. Why Hussein & Company work day and night to disarm the American people. 2. You and your kind are not holding the power you are relying on for certain victory. Incidentally, people like you take your courage from the government’s approval. Take away police, military, and judicial muscle and you are all cowards. Your veiled threats and attempts to betray yourself as a bad ass not to be challenged tells me that you already know what you are. To Casper: Obviously, a self-appointed constitutional scholar like you never heard of the First Amendment. Political free speech is absolute. So get it out of your head that you are giving me permission to speak. I’ll say whatever pleases me whether or not you and your kind approve. You still have two choices. Don’t read my messages. Say whatever you want to say in a message of your own.
I see you are still clueless. One more time, I said you are free to spew whatever nonesense you want, but that does not mean others do not also have the right to call your "stuff" what it is. Just so ya know; I will reply to whatever posts I wish, and I will ignore whatever I want, You have zero to say on the subjct. As for your childish attempts at insults I will simply consider the source and ignore them, see how simple that is, clueless.
Oh, just so ya know, Real Americans will not allow your to peacefully take one inch of the USA with you. So if you want to leave do so, but ALL the USA stays right where it is.
To Casper: Your real Americans, the parasite class, took something from me and I want it back. As to leaving. Why should I leave! You and your kind don’t like this country as it was founded not to mention giving the most people the most freedoms and the highest standard of living the world had ever seen. I have no choice but try to get the country back to its greatness as a matter of self-preservation. On the other hand you have choices. Since you obviously do not like freedom there are numerous totalitarian countries you can emigrate to. I’m sure China, North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, et al. would welcome you with open arms.
