Should State and Federal welfare be eliminated entirely?

So...there bad personal decisions enable them the right to another's money by means of theft at gunpoint provided by a third party?

Five years is a long time to be a complete screw up.

 

Congrats on posting the dumbest thing I have ready today.

 

Ask those who have been unable to find work of any kind for a long period of time, quite common among the long term unemployed during the last 5 years. Prospects of finding work if you have been out of work for more than 6 months decrease substantially, especially for those over 45.

 

The problem is that the system is designed to keep people on welfare. The limits set are such that it's almost impossible to become self sufficient.

 

That that means you have to lower your standards, face some harsh realities, make some hard decisions, and soldier on with life. Not steal from another because you can vote for theft.

 

Agreed, but there are also times you have to work the system to get off it as well. As long as my ex and I weren't married, and she reported that she was paying bills, she continued to receive benefits, while my wages weren't considered. We saved her earnings, plus as much of mine as possible, til we were able to get off welfare completely. Was it legal? Yep. Was it right? probably not. But it was the only way to get away from the government restrictions and allow us to live our life.

 

I can completely empathize with what you're saying. And you're right, the system is designed to keep you on it, and penalizes you for trying to get away. Not designed well at all.

Birds don't push young from the nest until they know they are ready to fly, but the gov has no problem doing it, and they know you'll fall on your face the way it is currently set up. There needs to be a mild transitory overlap from when you gain the solution to your problem, not a sudden drop off all life support.

Welfare is something that you can't do improperly if you are going to do it at all. If you are going to allow it, you have to do it right, if not, don't bother.

 

When the system is stacked against you, you simply have to find a way around the system. The problem today is that too many people aren't willing to go to that effort. It's easier to just let the government support you. There will always be a need for the welfare program for those who can not take care of themselves, but we have too many people that have made it a career.

 

Which is why the black temple of complacency must be thrown down, brick by brick if need be.

 

I agree completely, but that will take a shift in the momentum of the culture. And right now, we have a majority of the Democrats and a large number of Republicans who foster the government dependence ideology because it increases their power. Cultural momentum is a difficult thing to shift.

 

Capitalism does not cause poverty

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And to let them rob you. Who wants to end up in prison over taking a stand against them that will probably not make a difference anyway? They have us beaten but good.

 

When you cannot find any work, as many older workers have experienced, not even minimum wage work, what do you do?

 

You move, and keep looking, go to your family if you have one.

Look I see where you're going with this, and eventually there are some people who just have sh*t for luck. But if we embrace the idea that none can be left behind we wind up with a proliferation of leeches that will drain the strength from producing individuals so much that they will either leave, quit and join the leeches, or they will fight back and kill people they see as stealing from them.

Life isn't fair, trying to make it so only makes it unfair for more people. Somethings in life are just hard. Not everybody gets a happy ending.

 

No life isn't fair, but you overlook several things, the system is stacked against the long term unemployed. For example, move, sure but if you own a home with a mortgage, and you cannot sell it for what is owed on the mortgage, should you just walk away (yes, many have, and it is standard business practice for corporations to walk away from their mortgages) but if you walk away or go into foreclosure that affects your credit rating and most employers use your credit rating as a check on your employability. Long term unemployed have also likely drawn down their savings and tapped into their retirement savings just to survive and they have probably maxed out their credit cards or if they've been smart gotten rid of them. Try to take out a loan or obtain a Visa or Mastercard if you are unemployed - ain't gonna happen. It takes capital to move, which many do not have. Many families are in no position to help family members down on their luck. Older workers are also unlikely to find work even where work is looking for workers such as in the Dakota shale fields. It's very hard physical labor, most 55 year old's just aren't up to it, especially if they've spent most of their lives as middle management in Corporate America. I'm 62, highly skilled in my field, my prospects of finding employment if I were to lose my job (not likely) would be about zero, the thing is I don't want to retire (even though I can), I enjoy what I do, but what employer in my field (and there are a fair number of jobs out there in my field) would hire me, when they could hire a 20 something right out of College for less than a third of what I earn?

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No life isn't fair, but you overlook several things, the system is stacked against the long term unemployed. For example, move, sure but if you own a home with a mortgage, and you cannot sell it for what is owed on the mortgage, should you just walk away (yes, many have, and it is standard business practice for corporations to walk away from their mortgages) but if you walk away or go into foreclosure that affects your credit rating and most employers use your credit rating as a check on your employability. Long term unemployed have also likely drawn down their savings and tapped into their retirement savings just to survive and they have probably maxed out their credit cards or if they've been smart gotten rid of them. Try to take out a loan or obtain a Visa or Mastercard if you are unemployed - ain't gonna happen. It takes capital to move, which many do not have. Many families are in no position to help family members down on their luck. Older workers are also unlikely to find work even where work is looking for workers such as in the Dakota shale fields. It's very hard physical labor, most 55 year old's just aren't up to it, especially if they've spent most of their lives as middle management in Corporate America. I'm 62, highly skilled in my field, my prospects of finding employment if I were to lose my job (not likely) would be about zero, the thing is I don't want to retire (even though I can), I enjoy what I do, but what employer in my field (and there are a fair number of jobs out there in my field) would hire me, when they could hire a 20 something right out of College for less than a third of what I earn?

 

Life is not fair, we have established this.

Life is not fair...we have established this... But in the modern state of america you could probably sue somebody for discriminating against you and win if they base their hiring decisions off of credit checks. It is still pretty fagtacular that they do this.

Why do you think I am in college right now? It is a safe place to be financially. There are options out there, not all of them desirable.

Moving sucks, but people manage to do it. If mexicans can march across the deserts and get jobs doing hard labor even in their middle ages - so can we. Those currently doing those jobs are doing it because they can suck it up and muscle through. Rough life, but it is the only one you got. Hand outs make you weaker, not stronger. Adversity either kills you, makes you stronger, or you stalemate it.

Employees do not determine their worth unless the employer wants them bad enough. If you are competing for the job, it means that the other has the advantage of the situation - you are at their mercy. If you have companies clamoring for you to work for them, then the situation changes, you let them compete for you because you have the advantage of the situation. It is how it works.

 

It's very difficult to prove age discrimination, and it is perfectly legal in most states to use long term unemployment and a poor credit score to deny a person a job based on those things alone.

My wife just graduated in May with a Magna cum Laude. She has hundreds of applications out there, no one is hiring. About 40% of recent grads are unemployed or have found only part time work. Try paying back your loans on part time work.

For the workers I'm talking about (many very well educated) moving won't make a difference, they are over 55 and no one will hire them. That's the reality.

Be prepared to have your optimism shattered, the real world today does not offer near as much opportunity as you seem to think.

 

Immigrants around the world seem to disagree with you. Many people have their sights sets way to high, based on artificially high standards of living. I'd say 99% of Americans do, myself included in some areas.

 

and that is the complete and unfiltered philosophy of Ayn Rand.

 

More or less, and thus the reason why hers and Milton Friedman's capitalistic philosophy is oh so important today with this onset of obamunism/socialism.

 

We should support those people with verifiable physical and/or mental disabilities for as long as needed. We should end all handout welfare to everyone else, making a clear distinction between entitlement benefits that have been EARNED versus those that are not. Example: Social Security and Medicare are EARNED entitlements because working taxpayers have been forced by law to pay into these government programs all their lives. If you doubt it, look at your most recent paycheck stub and see how much was taken away from you for something called "FICA". That's short for Federal Insurance Contributions Act... and it's a mandatory tax!

 

If you want to get rid of welfare, start with the free money taxpayer funded government handouts you give to profitable corporations who neither need nor deserve it.

 

How do you feel about war profiteers who use thier financial gains to influence politicians to create more unnecessesary wars and conflicts thus creating more wealth for their exclusive class? This has been going on here in the US on a giant scale for over a century. If we had taken all of the rescources wasted in bloody conflicts which were created by war profiteering scum and used them to make the country a better place to live by constantly upgrading our infrastructure and public healthcare, there would be plenty of jobs and the welfare state would only be a tiny fraction of what it is today.

It seems that the US population is distracted in a petty, mean, class warfare battle pitting the nominally well to do against those who are the most unsuccessful in the rigged system which screws them both. The present system is controlled by a tiny minority of murderous scumbags who own both political parties and delights in the petty class based squabbling as it takes the spotlight off of them and their criminal activity.

 

nope not in this century,people need help! I'm not one on them that needs it!

 

Ayn Rand types here are hilarious. They cant see the takers and the parasites if they are wearing suits and ties.

 

Identifying it does not refute it.

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When you get to the point and can say it succinctly, let us know.