Single issue debate- Positive points only

Three things about that.
1. E-Verify would achieve much of what you suggest in preventing illegal immigrants from being hired. It was part of the 2013 Immigration Reform bill...............................https://www.americanimmigrationcoun...e-immigration-bill.......................that did not come up for a vote in the House........for reasons I am not allowed to discuss.
2. There is a tremendous negative economic consequence to deporting all the illegal immigrants.
3. Why not adopt a strict, selective path to citizenship?

 

You don't have an arguement! You have no evidence. You have only your opinion which might be as good as mine if it had any basis in fact.

Maybe you could post a reprt from a border official or someone with some credability that has found carpet.

Not to even mention the absurdity of the Muslims carrying their prayer matt all the way across the dangerous journey only to conveniently discard them when they have safely reached America and completed their journey.

 

You are clearly desperate in your need to avoid honestly confronting the blatant lies.

E.g.,

"The border city of El Paso, Texas, used to have extremely high rates of violent crime —
one of the highest in the country, and considered one of our nation's most dangerous cities!
Now, with a powerful barrier in place, El Paso is one of our safest cities!"​

Empirical reality:

Violent crime has been dropping in El Paso since its modern-day peak in 1993, and was at historic lows before a fence was authorized by Congress in 2006.

Violent crime had actually ticked up during the border fence's construction and after its completion, according to police data collected by the FBI.
​

 

yeah, but why would you accuse someone you don't know of such? It is very plausible scenario to happen just because you find it a convenient coincidence.

 

You don't know them either since the source was anonymous or perhaps just totally imaginary. People make up stories all the time. I think it is probably a requirement for being a Trump supporter. You know like an homage to the nation's greatest liar.

 

Because I hate punishing the people who waited and played by the rules and reward the rule breakers.

E-verify is not compulsory and is up to the states. Every state has different criteria on what can be asked. A National ID card that has you registered to vote would solve all the issues the dems accuse of right of trying to stop the poor from voting by making it difficult to do so.

Why is there a negative impact of deporting all illegals over a 2 year National ID period and why don't you think the legal immigration could increase to take up the slack that is not taken up by our own unemployed poor as the competition for wages raises salaries for the lower economic strata. (As an Aside, What happened to my democratic party that was against multinational corps keeping wages down by cheap imports and having lower wages to compete with low wages countries. Dems used to be in favor or tariffs and strict immigration so the labor market will not be flooded so that the investment class could benefit) When the hell did libs ever worry about economic impact to Corps over the economic impact of our working poor.

The dems always tried to paint themselves as the party of compassion, what kind of compassion rewards the lawbreakers at the expense of the ones who wait legaly. It took my grandparents 5 years to come here adn then only the men could come first.

 

E-Verify is not fool proof. It should only be viewed as proof an employer has exercised due diligence in using available methods to ensure a prospective employee is allowed to work.

There is no negative consequence to deporting all illegal aliens. That is a just a meme spread by liberal organizations attempting to exploit illegals for political gain.

The singular test to the honesty behind the "selective path" suggestion, is to include a provision that anyone who sought legal status through a form of amnesty would forfeit any right to vote.

 

So progressives are racist ?

You have a good argument. It was progressives who wrote America's racist immigration laws during the firsgt half of the 20th Century that actually worked and made America great and expanded the middle class.

Why do all nations have immigration laws and established borders ?

To keep undesirables out, to protect the nation's established customs, traditions, language and ethnic make up of the country. To protect the jobs of the nation's citizens.

Senate immigration subcommittee chairman Edward Kennedy (D-MA.) reassured his colleagues and the nation with the following:

It was all one big freaking lie wasn't it ?

 

Papieren Bitte?

 

I'm not terribly interested in your need to assign labels in the hope of furthering your agenda.

As I had noted, the 1965 reform abolished the restrictive, discriminatory quota system based on national origins that had previously been American immigration policy.

The eminently American fairness of that reform has been respected by politicians of both major political parties ever since.

 

I am asked for my "papers" every time I use a credit card, take money out of my bank account , when I pick up my grandkids at school. I don't get this at all. The government knows where you shop, what kind of toilet paper you use and can even hazard a guess how often you brush your teeth by your amount of toothpaste purchases. I think we are beyond that now. (the issue is the corporate world knows even more. The last job I took, I needed a photo ID, original social security card, and two more forms of ID that I got to choose from a tree of about 20 items. I did not think it was a violation of my privacy nor when I was asked for my ID when I voted. I am proud to be who I am.

A cop asked me for my ID when I was walking around school grounds when a school was in session. I was happy to know that they were looking out for the kids. Even though I was a 60 year old white male in a T-Shirt and shorts.

 

respected for Fairness yes, for the results no.

 

Those quota systems were based upon what America's ethnic makeup was at the time.
The progressives using science believed that the ethnic makeup of America in 1920 was about right and was working very well.

If Norwegians accounted for 3% of America's population then 3% of immigrants would come from Norway.
If Americans of Mexican descent accounted for 4% of America's population then 4% of the immigrants would be Mexican.

 

Remove anchor baby laws, chain migration laws, free healthcare and education for non citizens. Problem solved.

If you don't have proper ID, X amount of cash and credit, and a clean medical and arrest record, you shouldn't be allowed to apply for anything in this country. No work permit. No student permit. Nada.

Anyone we catch overstaying visas, gets deported immediately at the expense of themselves or their home country. We remove it from the foreign aid package.

 

Understood. But aside from the insurmountable logistical problems mass deportation fails to address to negative impact to GDP.

The path to citizenship that passed as part of the aforementioned reform bill was quite arduous with many obligations to fulfill on the part of those considered. I fail to see the benefit to the country of causing self-inflicted economic harm for the sake of satisfying an emotional desire to enforce "law and order."

 

http://theconversation.com/why-mass-deportations-are-costly-and-hurt-the-economy-73504

E-Verify
What is E-Verify?

E-Verify is an internet-based system that allows businesses to determine the eligibility of their employees to work in the United States by comparing information from an employee’s Employment Eligibility Verification Form I-9 to data from U.S. government records. Because the system is not currently mandatory, only around 7 percent of employers in the U.S. are currently enrolled in E-Verify.

What are the main changes to E-Verify in the bill?

Under S. 744, E-Verify will be expanded and made mandatory for all employers over a period of five years. The bill requires identity verification through the use of enhanced fraud-proof documents, such as tamper- and identity-theft resistant Social Security cards, and the use of a photo tool to allow employers to verify an individual’s identity. Employers are required to confirm identity and employment authorization within three business days after the employee accepts the offer of employment. A mandatory entry and exit system will be implemented at all air and sea ports to help ensure that foreign nationals are leaving the United States as required. The bill will take precedence over local and state laws related to the hiring of foreign nationals, creating a uniform national standard. However, the bill does not allow the creation of a national identification card.

https://www.americanimmigrationcoun...44-understanding-2013-senate-immigration-bill

 

It is not mass deportation, how many do you think would go back now. 10 % at least. You know you are going to get busted, did you use forged documents to get social benefits also? Do you wish to go to jail/holding for two weeks while your kids go to "foster care", Then over the next two years as the program is rolled out they will self deport.
and then over the following two years the 50% that don't self deport will be deported by the means we have now in place to deport illegals. Any one who does not voluntarily self deport will never be allowed in the country again.

It is not economic harm- I don't know why you say that. either the jobs go to legal immigrants or native workers.
these asylum seekers will now have jobs waiting for them that were filled by illegals, they will not be on social services but working. Honest businessmen will not be undercut by businessmen who employ illegals and don't pay the wages/benefits/insurance that citizens will want and get paid by the honest businesses. I don't understand why posters such as yourself want illegals to get what should be coming to legal and native lower economic strata

 

From a source you would embrace:

https://www.aclu.org/other/prove-yourself-work-10-big-problems-e-verify

As to economic harm:

You link claims this regarding mortgages - "$50 million at risk during a mass deportation." First, that's peanuts. Second, an illegal alien using forged documents to work is at risk of deportation every day. That $50 million is at risk every day.

Then, the burdens of those left behind. It's estimated illegal aliens cost taxpayers over $100 billion per year, most of that carried by the states in which they hide out. Do you think these illegals give a damn about who they might harm. If they did, why would they put their families in jeopardy by invading another country illegally, and then forging documents to obtain work? Since you will probably argue otherwise, the proof of whether they cared is shown when they are deported, and they leave their family behind.

 

Are you aware of any legislative initiative, by either political party, to re-instate the restrictive, discriminatory quota system based on national origins that had been American immigration policy from the 1920s until the passage of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965?

(In Congress, 74% of Democrats and 85% of Republicans had voted for passage of the bill.)

 

Nor should there be. I am not asking for a return to 90% northern European. I am just not happy with the way the Hispanics assimilated into our culture vs the Northern Europeans did. I think the immigrants from the old communist block have assimilated more fully. I think the Asians from VietNam and Cambodia have also. Same goes for the Nigerians whom to me rival the Japanese/Indians with the emphasis on their child's education. I don't have aproblem withlegal immigration at all, and would love to do a deport two illegals, let one legal who has been waiting patiently to get in. If we deport 5 mill illegals that will empty the waiting list of assylum seekers and the wait list

 

Your point is right, regarding various transactions and interactions with authorities, all voluntary on your part. I am the same way.

The point is that when people are walking on the street minding their own business, they are entitled to their privacy, however temporary or small it might be. Mister Justice Brandeis described it in one of his probably dissenting opinions, the right to be left alone. Probably all of us value that right, as Brandeis noted. So true.

And so it follows that when the state for no reason at all stops a man and asks for his papers, things have gone downhill for sure. Though few in number, there are still people who don't use computers or drive.

I just noted that such was the practice in Nazi Germany. Is it also the practice here?

 

No and that won't be the matter of course. But when you do go for public assistance or a job, or to vote, you will need to provide the national ID. Well they don't use computers, drive, vote or drink or bank they don't need an ID card. But they will get one if the law is passed free of charge.

 

Yes makes a lot of sense that they dragged their prayer rugs all the way from the Middle East and then discarded them when they got into America. Why does that make sense to you?

Animas, where the rancher lives isn't even on the border. Maybe the Washington Examiner just made up the rancher and couldn't figure out where the border with Mexico actually is.

 

They could be bedrolls made of a carpet runner that some Honduran slept on. I am not saying they are prayer rugs, just question why you would think he is a liar, and just not mistaken.

 

Because it made too much sense.