Yes, BUT Our Bible tells a history too. Major civilizations and their accomplishments being in areas now under water makes me believe there was a Great Flood as many cultures recite. Yes to Deborah, Barak, Sisera and Jael too. Consider "their" books/beliefs. The Chinese got stagnated by their relatively rigid, Confucius. And Taoism doesn't seem to inspire to go out and change the world for good except by maybe, personal example. The above was not meant to speak to the Christ Bible Y'gotta believe, Moi doesn't Not The Messiah. No doubt Jewish because his mother thought he was God and he thought his mother was a virgin. The Devil made me do it Moi
Sure, the bible is also a history of the jews, and would make a good movie. ha ha And decent literature full of archetypes. Too bad the religions that came from the bible didn't change the world enough, in adhering to the Golden Rule. If humanity had just heeded that simple rule, our history would look much different and civilization would be much more civilized. But alas, that golden rule was barely followed. And still isn't given much value by nations or their people to any significant degree. Hard to profit to the max if one lives by it. ha ha I am still quite fond of the Tao Te Ching and the writings of Chuang Tzu. It is still a part of Huxley's philosophia perennis as is the more mystical side of judaism and christianity. I prefer the mysticism over the orthodoxy.
Human witnessing? Who witnessed the birth of Jesus in 6/5 BCE. Just Joseph and Mary and perhaps an experienced 'baby deliverer' (Midwife). The rest - supposedly - come to visit a child. We have only records from at least 7 decades later. They don't describe the same scenario. In one place Joseph goes to Bethlehem from Nazareth (Luke). This goes against all the rules of the time. 'Matthew' says Joseph was already in Bethlehem. He also indicates that this was Josephs home - Joseph is told not to go back to Bethlehem but to go to Nazareth - his actual home. Why did he need to be told that.? He needed to get back to Nazareth to his business - to earn money to support his family. What property could Joseph possibly have had in Bethlehem. We are talking 2000 years ago. Bethlehem was 90 miles from Nazareth. No modern transport, communications etc. Besides David was 1000 years in the past and Bethlehem had been through chaos and exile of many of its people to Babylon. Who actually inhabited Bethlehem 1000 years after David is unknown. Many exiles never returned to Israel, preferring the life in Babylon. Matthew uses prophecies concerning the birth from the OT. Regarding the prophecy concerning Egypt did Jesus fulfil the complete 'prophecy'? If he did he wasn't the Messiah, but an idol worshipper. You can't just take a verse out of context - or use prophecies that clearly are related to Israel - not Jesus. The Jews knew their scriptures long before Christianity misused them. Jesus preached, lived and practised as a Jew. He used the OT in his preaching. Yes, he accepted things that we know today are not true - because he had been indoctrinated from the age of 5 in the Tanakh. He did not have the knowledge we have today. Christianity used similar tactics. They denied the scriptures to the ordinary folk who had to rely on what they were told. No it's not a matter of perspectives. It's a matter of 2 completely different stories that contradict each other. Whoever wrote Matthew probably never even knew Jesus or his parents. Ditto Luke. Mark got his info from various sources. And John - despite 'his' claim at the end of John 21 - is still in dispute by scholars. . One thing happened or the other happened. There were no witnesses. No reports from the 'Shepherds' or the 'Magi'. Herod doesn't mention it in history. There's no record of the thousands upon thousands of David's descendants flooding the roads to Bethlehem. David had 20 known sons. In a 1000 years these would have multiplied vastly with the large families that were the norm. All we have is the village of Bethlehem having no room. If the story is true the surrounding villages would have been flooded with people and Herod would have noticed. Knowing the trouble the Jews caused his soldiers would have been alerted - as at Passover in Jerusalem. Rome had no interest other than collecting taxes through a census of property - and Josephs was in Nazareth. In any case Mary had no need to go anywhere. She could have remained at home in Nazareth. The whole story is filled with errors. Deviations from the requirement of the Jewish and Roman laws of the time.
Who did it better? For 2K years! If not da Jews Consider The Enlightenment a Jewish challenge to the Gentile to behave . . . ala Masons, etc. A people without a nation! Until 1948 Yes. An influence on the world. For independence, Masonic principles, sound currency and the Caribbean virtual Walmart Why drinks coffee and not tea!
1. The bible HAS 'changed the world'.. and ushered in the Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, the Scientific Revolution, and Western Civilization. It has the power to change lives, through the message of Redemption found within its pages. 2. Man's religions, from whatever source, are powerless, and bring corruption, oppression and death. 3. Christianity contains both elements of mysticism and empirical reasoning. Christian scholars and philosophers have delved deeply into both, over the millennia. Because, man and Christ are both. We are spiritual beings housed in a material shell. Jesus is/was 'very man of very man,' AND 'very God of very God.' as Irenaeus wrote in the 2nd century. 4. True Christianity, as presented by the Founder, is as nonreligious and even anti-religious as you can get. It is Freedom, Life, and Spirit, not control, rules, and dogmatism. 5. Jesus, as presented by the authors of the biblical texts, will blow your mind. There is NOTHING comparable in this life. ALL the treasures of Wisdom and Knowledge are found, in Him. Jesus Christ was not a mere man, begotten from Joseph in the ordinary course of nature, but was very God, begotten of the Father most high, and very man, born of the Virgin. ~Irenaeus Col2:2 My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
For hundreds, or really, THOUSANDS of years, in every contemporary generation, critics and enemies of the bible and Christianity have spewed lies and venom to smear and discredit the Message, and have perpetually and pathetically predicted the End of Christianity. EVERY hostile critic is gone and forgotten, while the bible remains, delivering power, wisdom, and Life, for those who seek Truth. Contemporary critics and enemies of Christianity will fare no different. They will mock, rage, smear, lie, and revile until they are blue in the face, and their pathetic ravings will be forgotten. The BIBLE will remain.. unscathed.. unmoved.. and undeniably relevant and effective in reconciling man to his Creator. The enemies rage against the Message, but have only lies and distortions, to try to discredit a compilation of books that has withstood more scrutiny, examination, criticism, and hostility than ANY OTHER record of humanity. Why? Because this is no mere book. It contains the Redemption Message, and THAT has the Power to revolutionize the individual's life. Changing the world, or ushering in a religious utopia is NOT the goal or message of the Christian gospel. It is Changing the individual, and adopting each one into the Family of God. Christianity does not compete with socialism, capitalism, marxism, or any 'isms' of man's creation. It is a Cosmic Transaction of the Soul, and restores the individual to its intended state: Peace with God. That Peace is immeasurable, indefinable, and unfathomable. It, alone, is enough. Read the Bible. Study its message. Listen to the Voice of Reason and Truth. Drown out the lies and propaganda from the enemies of your soul. Discover Peace with your Creator. Find the Purpose for your existence. What could possibly be more important than that?
Done. Done. My received message could be very different from yours though. Done. And the voice has told me that this tome is ridiculous. So skeptics and non-Christians are enemies of my soul now? I have no Creator. Unless you are talking about my parents. Sure I have peace with them. And that is to be one baby step in the long progression and advancement of the human race as well as seizing the moment for myself. Study of other books?
Everybody gotta believe something. Each person has to do their own believing, and their own dying. If you are content with the condition of your soul, and feel no Drawing from God, then no words i can offer will change that. But there is a Peace.. that cannot be described or defined.. it comes from Reality with God, in times of quiet reflection and introspection. It is there for the finding, for those who seek.
Mark 8:36“For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, and forfeit his soul? 37“For what will a man give in exchange for his soul? Life and Soul are the same greek word: ψυχὴν 'Psychēn'. The root should be obvious. What is your 'life/soul' worth? What would you give to save it?
..not necessarily. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy. But there is a spiritual battle, for your soul. You can let enemies of your soul drag you with them, or you can find redemption, spiritual reality, and peace. It will only cost you everything.
Good post, and I do not disagree. The effect upon western civilization is self evident, and has given us many positive things. I think by and large, judeochristians have been a very civilizing force. Just too bad more nations, including our own, has not lived by the golden rule. I cannot imagine how different things would be if that had happened.
They never have.. a major lesson of Kings and Chronicles.. when nations live by the law, they prosper; when they worship idols, they decline.
The Bible is just a book that tells people how to become proficient criminals by using religion to extort money and valuables from them. That is what most of the Old Testament is about. It is just a crime story.
Usual guff. God punishing man for his own human failure. History of the Ancient Middle East is full of successes and failures. There is no evidence that god punished THEM for their failure to acknowledge him. Monotheism was never the norm. in the OT until the Babylonian exile. When a nation failed it was down to human failure. Nothing to do with worshipping a god. The Northern territories went into captivity because the rulers, Israel and it neighbours, misjudged their ability to eventually overcome the Assyrians. Judah went into captivity because they stupidly went against their Masters - the Babylonians - and aligned themselves with Egypt. How stupid was that when Egypt had already been sent packing when they tried to overthrow the Babylonians earlier under Neco. What did the Judeans expect the Babylonians to do? All nations included their gods in the victories and defeats. Cyrus claimed his victory over Babylon was due to his god Marduk. The Philistines took the Ark back to their god in celebration of their victory. On Temples walls in Egypt, and throughout the Middle East Archaeology has found such attributes for victories to the gods. Christianity has continued the theme. If you pray for something and it doesn't happen it was not gods will. If it happens it was gods will. Perhaps if man thought more carefully about his requests/prayers he could sort out his own problems.
Reality with an unprovable, being? Isn't that rather difficult? Don't you mean 'realty from having faith that God exists'. . Peace is achievable by accepting that life as what it is - reality - not what some supreme means it to be. Many religions - many different ideas? Why shoiuld your be different to any other. Of course, accepting that your sins are forgiven through someone can be helpful. Jesus was a Jew. He would never have accepted a vicarious sacrifice - or being one. It was what his disciples/gospel writers .that decided it.. Peace comes from knowing you helped your fellow man during each day. A God who demands more should have made man a perfect being - not subject to failure. . Times of introspection and reflection can be achieved by anyone who cares to set aside the time and be honest with themselves. There is wisdom in the Bible without the need of religion. Much of that wisdom comes from the OT - long before Christianity. Christianity stole from the OT prophecies that have no reference to a distant Jewish preacher. The Jews understood their scriptures centuries before the preacher came - and their understanding did not include a vcicarious sacrificial lamb - but a human leader. When Jesus declared he was not this - in the Garden - 'put up your swords' the disciples ran, so we're told. We really don't know what happened at the Birth of Jesus. The only people present were Joseph and Mary - and perhaps a woman who helped in childbirths. These were often to be found in simple societies - as in early times in the UK. Supposedly shepherds arrived later and Magi followed. They add nothing to authenticate the story except the belief that Magi would be present at a notable birth. We don't know how many Magi are supposed to have arrived. They usually travelled in around a dozen, with armed escorts to protect them. I ask again how Jesus could be in Nazareth 40 days after his birth and also in Egypt at the same time. Why did Joseph have to go to Bethlehem when he was already there. .Why wiould he have property there - 90 miles away from his real home, and 1000 years after Davids death?
1. God is not 'unprovable!' Many people over the millennia have encountered the Divine, and know He is real. Personal inexperience with God, or ignorance of His presence, does not prove the 'No God!' belief and assertion. 2. Reality is often unprovable and subjective. 3. Faith is the result of an encounter with God. He initiates the contact. If you ask, perhaps He will draw you to Him, and open your eyes to cosmic possibility. I can only repeat the previous post: Everybody gotta believe something. Each person has to do their own believing, and their own dying. If you are content with the condition of your soul, and feel no Drawing from God, then no words i can offer will change that. But there is a Peace.. that cannot be described or defined.. it comes from Reality with God, in times of quiet reflection and introspection. It is there for the finding, for those who seek.
I don't think 'Nations', can live by any rule. Madness defines groups, and only the moralizing and civilizing power of rebirth in the individual can restrain the group dynamic. 'One man with courage is a majority.' ~Thomas Jefferson Insanity in individuals is something rare – but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. ~Friedrich Neitzsche
Have you considered the possibility that Egypt is used as a metaphor in the birth of Jesus? Consider the passage from Hosea 11:1 (NLT) = “When Israel was a child, I loved him, and I called my son out of Egypt.“ Remember, all of the biblical stories are interrelated and feed off of each other. Since the Jesus character was supposed to have been the son of God he had to be placed in Egypt for Hosea 11:1 to be true. So the writer simply had the family make a trip to Egypt with baby Jesus in order to validate Hosea 11:1. The fact that one writer included that detail shows that he was more familiar with the ancient story than the other writer was. The Jesus character and his “sacrifice“ illustrate the clause in the Fourth Commandment (Exodus 34:19-20) that (GNT) “Every first-born son and first-born male domestic animal belongs to me,“. So since Jesus was the first-born son he was God's to do with as he pleased. So he used him as a sacrifice to save you from your sins (like eating tuna and wearing clothes of mixed fabrics). When the wise men brought gifts to baby Jesus were acknowledging him as God in accordance with the clause from the Fourth Commandment (Exodus 34:19-20) about not appearing before God without an offering (GNT) = “No one is to appear before me without an offering.“
I experienced The Presence many years ago. Each day for 30 days I underwent the Anointing, followed each time by direct, immediate experience of God "face-to-face". It was unmistakable. I could feel Him, nose-to-nose with me as long as I kept my eyes closed. I could feel the power. I could feel the Presence on my face. I shed tears of joy and love each time. Later, as I examined the experiences and studied them, I found that this experience is produced when a person experiences a temporal seizure. It can be induced by intense, exclusive focus and devotion to a trusted, treasured item or person, dead or alive. And the interesting thing about it is that when the subject is an atheist the subject finds it powerful and very interesting, but when the subject is a "believer" that subject always believes it was God, and no amount of explanation and reasoning about the technology and neurology can convince him otherwise. We believe what we want to believe.
Oh good. Then prove god is real to me. God initiates the contact? Tell that to the Church who for over 2 millenia led people to believe their contact with God was through the priest and teachings of the church. I agree. As I said there is a peace. But it comes not from knowing an unprovable god, but from one's own life experiences. You throw your sins on someone else's shoulders. I acknowledge that I am human and am responsible for my own sins/weaknesses. But I am responsible for working on my own strengths/works also.. That's where quiet reflection and introspection come into play. That's the Jewish period before Yom Kippur for the Hebrews. You are a human being. Your 'sins' are down to you. Of course, if Joseph and Jesus were in Nazareth and Egypt at the same time - who knows? .
This is your prejudical assumption, and distortion. It is not compelled by any of the passages. ..same here. You have no facts or compelling arguments for this 'theory'. It is just a prejudicial view from a hostile enemy of Christianity. Lots of people have come and gone before you, and the Truth and Power of the message continues. Your pathetic raging against the Rock of Scripture will not diminish it, at all. You only diminish yourself, with hateful distortions and lies, about the only Hope for mankind. Trevor.. you have been deceived. You are mistaken, in this crusade against the bible and Christianity. Your hostility has blinded you to possibility, and the quiet voice of Reason and Truth. Don't end your days like this. Return to your Maker. Be reconciled to God.
